Don't worry about it B. Your reaction kind of proofed my point, and if I seriously would think like that about Hitler I'd deserve th 'idiot'...
- Thread starter Frank the Tank
- Start date
Trujillo's Grandson Seeks To Set Record Straight About El Jefe
Don't worry about it B. Your reaction kind of proofed my point, and if I seriously would think like that about Hitler I'd deserve th 'idiot'...
The fact that it would be the peasants the ones to betray the guerrilleros both during the 1947 Cayo Confites and 1959 Constanza, Maimon and Estero Hondo expeditions, or the fact that Trujillo would be dispatched by the upper classes and not under a popular uprising should tell you all that you need to know about where exactly they stood on this issue.
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Now I really feel bad about my prior statements to you.............
I guess I need a course in reading comprehension......................
I just take everything too seriously..........I need a drink.....
B in Santiago
you need to read this book: http://www.amazon.de/Foundations-Despotism-Peasants-Modernity-Dominican/dp/0804751056
richard turits, the author based his research on interviews with dominican peasents who lived during the trujillo regime. he comes to the conclusion that the lower classes were the foundation of trujillos rule and that his regime collapsed when he lost their support due to land reforms which benefited his sugar companies, financial problems and alienating the church. it is a very interesting read.
this book should also shed some light on the issue, as the author partnered turits when conducting the interviews, but i have not yet been able to read it The Dictator's Seduction: Politics and the Popular Imagination in the Era of Trujillo (American Encounters/Global Interactions): Lauren Derby: 9780822344827: Amazon.com: Books
Trujillo was a murderer and he's got the reputation that he deserves! Talking about "setting the record straight" is like talking as if some huge injustice was commited against him. His grandson should be glad that people do remember the nice things he did.
I grew up listening to stories about the regime from relatives and neighbors and they always acknowledged the good things, especially regarding education, cleanliness, etc, but they also talked about the atrocities, living in fear, the ?Calies? or spies who were in every neighborhood, those who disappeared never to be seen again, having to thank God and Trujillo at the dining table, the people who were incarcerated and tortured, journalists murdered, people who had their homes set on fire, etc.
Dictators and semi dictators, dumb presidents, corrupt presidents, you name it, they all do nice things on the side and that's why they all have a fan base who will speak highly of them.
My grandma and her peers were all crazy about Balaguer! He was a rock star to them. After he died, my grandma stopped voting! Some people admired him for his speeches, others for the benefits they got from him. didn?t he write speeches for Trujillo too? Anyway, Balaguer was corrupt and made people disappear too! Yet till the day he died he had the highest admiration, especially from politicians.
I understand that if Trujillo gave your family a finca you'll say the nicest things about him, but that doesn't mean we should all worship him.
I grew up listening to stories about the regime from relatives and neighbors and they always acknowledged the good things, especially regarding education, cleanliness, etc, but they also talked about the atrocities, living in fear, the ?Calies? or spies who were in every neighborhood, those who disappeared never to be seen again, having to thank God and Trujillo at the dining table, the people who were incarcerated and tortured, journalists murdered, people who had their homes set on fire, etc.
Dictators and semi dictators, dumb presidents, corrupt presidents, you name it, they all do nice things on the side and that's why they all have a fan base who will speak highly of them.
My grandma and her peers were all crazy about Balaguer! He was a rock star to them. After he died, my grandma stopped voting! Some people admired him for his speeches, others for the benefits they got from him. didn?t he write speeches for Trujillo too? Anyway, Balaguer was corrupt and made people disappear too! Yet till the day he died he had the highest admiration, especially from politicians.
I understand that if Trujillo gave your family a finca you'll say the nicest things about him, but that doesn't mean we should all worship him.
Trujillo's downfall was brought on by Castro's seizing control of Cuba and his attempted assassination of Betencourt, the President of Venezuela. After the attempt on Betancourt, THE OAS put sanctions on DR crippling the economy. In regards to Castro, at the end of Eisenhower's administration, it was US policy to try and unseat him. The US decided that if it was going to unseat one dictator it could not support another. The umbilical cord of economic and military support was then cut. These were the true cause of his eventual undoing. The US tried several times to convince Trujillo to resign unsuccessfully. At that point the CIA started to look for conservative anti-communist Dominicans to overthrow him.
As far as Trujillo's treatment of the upper class, he resented them. He tried and wanted to accepted by them very badly but never was. Once he took power, he relished humiliating them.
The real and truly evil person connected to Trujillo was Johnny Abbas. When the SIM was created and Abbas put in charge things changed for the worst. Abbas was not liked by anyone except Trujillo himself.
As far as Trujillo's treatment of the upper class, he resented them. He tried and wanted to accepted by them very badly but never was. Once he took power, he relished humiliating them.
The real and truly evil person connected to Trujillo was Johnny Abbas. When the SIM was created and Abbas put in charge things changed for the worst. Abbas was not liked by anyone except Trujillo himself.
What's amazing is seeing a blue-blooded golo defend un chivito jarto 'e jobo como Trujillo. Times are indeed a-changin': first Onions&Carrots found compassion for the downtrodden, and now my DR1 hero, golo, has returned stronger than ever!
Oh, how I wish for those days when they used to clash:
En la esquina roja, cebollas y zanahorias. Y en pantalones azules, TW.
Oh, how I wish for those days when they used to clash:
En la esquina roja, cebollas y zanahorias. Y en pantalones azules, TW.
You are damn right about that...And it is a monumental shame that some irresponsible so-called leaders (may hell give them the treatment they deserve) managed to get thousands of their own killed, while killing ten's of thousands Iraqis (at least) all to turn a FUNCTIONING society with a bad leader into a mayhem of militias, chaos, deaths squads, and lawlessness....But I know what you are thinking, the monumental MAYHEM unleashed in Libya raises serious doubts on whether the Iraq debacle is the worst single decision made by any elected so-called leader in the history of humanity...one can certainly argue that the Libya MAYHEM is actually worse if nothing else because the geniuses behind it (a) already new about the Iraq monumental debacle, and (b) these geniuses actually opposed it...go figure...
Then again, mayhem/chaos/unbridled-militias/death-squads notwithstanding, the Iraqis and Libyans have or soon will 'elected' governments, which may make all the deaths and destruction and mayhem and chaos worthwhile...or so some think.
Despots are about control. Control is bad for the groups disliked by the despot. Hussein kept sectarian violence down. He was rather secular in his views. It's been said that women enjoyed greater freedom and status in Hussein's Iraq as compared to the theocracy it's becoming. Does that mean he was a good guy? No. It simply means he brutally controlled people that are very brutal themselves when allowed to operate without constraint.
B, Hitler was fukked up that's for sure. My family lost quite a bit during the war because of him. My grandfather was sent to the east because he wasn't a member of the Nazi party and was taken pow during the battle of Stalingrad. He returned to the family in 1947, 2 years after Germany surrendered. In 1986 at my grandmother's funeral her sister commented to my 1st wife that the period 1932-1939 were very happy years. Hitler took care of the inflation, created jobs and gave the Germans their confidence, pride, self respect and stability back. IMHO that (and the Marshall plan) gave the Germans the strength to build the country again after it was completely destroyed, Germany has the world's fourth largest economy by nominal GDP and the fifth largest by purchasing power parity. Germany is the third largest exporter and third largest importer of goods. The country has developed a very high standard of living and features a comprehensive system of social security; the country has the world's oldest universal health care system. Germany has been the home of many influential philosophers, music composers, scientists and inventors, and is known for its cultural and political history.
Plse remember there's no good without a bad
Frank, when I made those comments to Mauricio, I believed that he was being serious. After my nasty response, I realized that I was in error and Mauricio's post was a sarcastic post. I have since apologized to him. As far as your post I totally agree with you. There is no good without a bad. I even own a Braun electric shaver, It is 15 years old and as good as the day it was purchased. Germany has contributed an incredible amount of brilliance in every field and should be commended for their contributions. Hitler didn't destroy Germany, just set them back.............
Germans are too strong a people to roll over and die...............
B in Santiago
Germans are too strong a people to roll over and die...............
B in Santiago
I believe people long for Trujillo given the level of violent robberies here. Rather than going to the extreme to elect a dictator type leader a few simple changes in the law could make all the difference. For one, as it stands now if a robbery or attack is committed the victim has to actively pursue the case or it will be dropped. The law should be changed to require the fiscals to prosecute the criminal based on the witnesses corroboration and whatever evidence is available. Second, if a foreigner is accused convicted of a crime they should be deported immediately.
Chip do you believe on some level Dominicans are violent people? Just pretend for a minute Chip that you do not live in DR with your wife kids and just an observer of the island. Violent robberies and a inadequate justice system are just some of the issues that arise when the real problems are overlooked.
Dominicans do not see the big picture, I know some do and I applaud their effort. Like I read when the women protested so they can get the officials to take notice on the number of women being killed by their partners. Chip it is year 2012 and women in DR are being destroyed at an alarming rate, so much they had to protest about it.
Until Dominicans learn to respect one another you can bring back 5 Trujillo and one Benito Mussolini it would not make a difference. During Trujillo rein of terror domincans were not violent people.
BTW I am talking about Dominican on Dominican crime, so before some of you say" I have been living in DR for 15 yrs and I have never been a victim of any crime" I am not referring to you.
As long as man walks the earth the country of Germany will never NEVER remove their past when they decided to turn the world into a "graveyard" They can invent the cure for many Cancers and stop world hunger, but THAT PAST will never be forgotten.
Many events in history can be forgotten and forgiven in time NOT THAT ONE!!!
That maybe. However, the same can be told for almost all countries that have tried one way or another to take over the world. And those things won't be forgotten either. Just saying...
I don't think Dominicans are any more violent than anyone else, including Americans. What Dominicans have is a weak police force.
The police force is after the fact Chip, but what is driving the criminal act in the first place.
I attended the Holocaust Museum in D.C. when they first opened it, and they have a room full of shoes from the victims and you are overwhelmed by the strong smell of leather. I have never read anything in history worst then this.