Train Route Santo Dgo To Santiago

[ElvisNYC]

Chip: Don't waste your time arguing with this guy Extreme. His logic or lack thereof is astounding...Like I said Pichardo I respect because even though if you believe his posts we'll be surpassing South Korea any time now in modernism, at least he writes coherently, his posts are consistent and he's probably making so much money from The PLD being in power that eventyhing is just gravy right now...

I agree with you ! It's quite a shame that people would justify a $1 billion dollar investment on this project and it will indeed be heavly subsidized.

A veces la gente vive en las nubes, mientras los mas pobres sufren y hay un descuido completo de combatir la pobreza, mejorar la educacion, ofrecer salud publica gratuita y entre otras cosas para entrar al modernismo !

Que vale tener un metro cuando hay mucho desempleo y los costos de productos de primera necesidad son altos ?

 

[ExtremeR]

Pero ElvisNYC compadre y en que mundo es que usted vive?? Entonces es culpa del gobierno que los productos de primera necesidad esten caro?? Se ha enterado usted de la actual crisis alimenticia mundial?? O eso sigue siendo culpa del gobierno, de hecho en RD esa crisis no se ha sentido en gran magnitud.

Otras grandes inversiones se hicieron bajo el fuerte escrutinio de muchos incredulos, como son los elevados y tuneles en la ciudad capital y Santiago y sin embargo hoy dia no se puede ni pensar que fuera de nosotros sin esas dos infraestructuras erguidas actualmente.

 

[Chip]

Extreme

La opini?n tuya es valida, o sea la progresi?n del pa?s a veces depende de la realizaci?n de ideas nuevas y hasta cuestionables. Pero tambi?n, se debe aplicar el sentido com?n en analizar el ben?fico al pueblo contra el costo. Por ejemplo, todav?a no es un hecho si el metro se cumple con las promesas de los oficiales. Del mismo modo, creo que un proyecto como ese ferrocarril va a beneficiar tan poca gente mientras poniendo le deuda del pa?s mas grande. Y ya sabemos quien patrocina al final los gran proyectos, la gente com?n, que los mas probable nunca van a poder beneficiar del mismo proyecto.

Imag?nate por un momento una inversi?n como la que se necesita para dicho proyecto en el sector p?blico, come salud p?blica, obras p?blicas y la aumentaci?n de salario de la polic?a y fondos para poder trabajar bien (como para no tener que pedir para echar una g?tica de combustible!). De hecho, usando la misma raz?n que tu usaba anteriormente, no se supone que paguemos mas a la polic?a que no se caer? en la tentaci?n tanto? Adi?s, todo el mundo sabe que la polic?a pide aqu?, y por eso le dicen “banda de criminales”. Imag?nate si tuvi?ramos una polic?a profesional de que no tendr?a que pedir, es cierto que la corrupci?n ser? menos. Eso tendr?a dos efectos, se ganar?a de nuevo el respecto del pueblo, y con ese mismo respecto, tendr? mas habilidad y deseo de trabajar en hacer el pueblo mas seguro y tranquilo. Imag?nate el efecto que traer? eso a la inversi?n extranjera!

 

[ExtremeR]

Es que yo soy partidario Chip de que a los policias se le suba el sueldo, aunque tambien seria bueno una formacion mas depurada para otorgarle a ellos el titulo de oficial. No puedo expandir mucho en el tema ahora Chip pero mas tarde vendre y expondre mis puntos de vista sobre la policia mas detallado.

 

[PICHARDO]

Guayaquil is a growing city and main port, and had problems with traffic and crime. The city's administration created a solution which didn't cost $1 billion+ for its population of 2-3 million + people, similar to Santo Domingo's population. If they would initiated a plan to spend $1 billion dollars for a public transport, our people have rejected that idea immediately.

I highly doubt that private car owners will use this public system, because you and I know both that middle class/upper middle class people wouldn't consider using mass transit as a means of transportation. Latin americans with money do not use mass transportation ! They don't even walk more than a few blocks !

ElvisNYC: Mass transit in the form of buses is NOT a long term solution, but a band-aid soon to meet the end of the services it rendered. Bus solutions are not mass transit!!!

As afforded by any major (already developed) metropolitan city in the world, a bus system like the one in Guayaquil would prove to be the Achilles's heel when it comes to real projected growth. There's a limit to the number of buses you can chain-gang to overcome demand and peak hours flux.

All the while, crating yet another layer of imported fuel and parts to the tax payer.

A Metro on the other hand, has been proven to provide the best ratio of expense to service life than any other form of comparable mass transportation. That's a fact, not a gimmick to parlay...

SD is on track to become a city of major proportions, as the historical and actual growth indicates. In fact the city of SD can be said to be running on steroids when compared to other major (already developed) metropolitan cities. The groundwork of the city is being laid down to sustain that vertical growth accordingly with actual working solutions, not band-aids for the time being.

The issue is not cost savings in the short to medium term, but real cost effect and results for the next century at least. The "Master Plan" is ambitious in that scale, as it provides for the projected growth of not only the city of SD but also the inner cities today lacking any major resources to their disposal.

As it stands, Metro rail offers the best long term economic and growth needs of the country. A plan that will take the better part of the next 50 or so years to implement.

Once the price of oil in the DR is allowed to float as it should (making a buck for the gov like in the UK to name one) then those same people that you claim that will shun the Metro for their SUV's, will have very little choice on their hands. The Metro system is being made so that it can appeal to the most refined ridership, unlike old Metros still running in the world.

Take a stroll on any of the stations with a good completion stage over 95% and you'll immediately notice that this is not the NYC Subway or Paris system...

The SD - Santiago high speed train will offer a new stage of service to the country's population and also serve as the initial test-bed for the inclusion of commercial freight for a viable solution to the growing needs of our industry and ports.

As provided by any large scale metropolitan city in the world, the need for mass transportation is paramount for the cities to thrive and continue to develop. While we can't plan for the personal flying car (yet), we sure can do so for the rest of the population still having to travel long distances under the sun.

If you research every single Metro system in the world in service today, they'll all share the same blunt opposition like that of the SD Metro and equally the SD - Santiago high speed rail. Yet for all that, today, living without them would be unthinkable on each of those cities!!!

Once you cut travel time to mere minutes, commerce will develop in another whole new way between the cities interconnected!!

Once we link all airports in the nation via high speed rail with branching of Metro rails to the centers of those cities, the value of those terminals will increase ten-fold and provide a new tier of income and assets to the country.

Have you noticed that any new construction in the DR where the number of floors goes beyond the established skyline, the top floor is getting a nice helo-pad as well??? That's the input of our architects that were let in to the fact that air taxi will offer the best services, to those that need to reach important meetings, airport terminals, other cities, etc... With time being the tipping point of that service.

All airports are being set to fill those needs in a new way!

The addition of high speed trains will open a new chapter in the mass transit and air travel systems of the DR and upgrade it as a model to follow by the developing and developed world.

Yes! High speed trains are in use today in many cities in the world, but how many do link that nation's complete airport system with the local Metro or rails?????

Think that in minutes you could take a ride in the local Metro, ride the high speed rail system to any city of your choice and shop for goods or visit a hotel in the coast; all the while being able to return home before dinner?!?

A waste of tax payer?s money? Maybe... But sure as hell much better than having to fight your way into the back of a falling-to-pieces concho (w/o A/C) or waiting under the Sun for OMSA (again lacking A/C) to get there...

 

[NALs]

i tell you why the funcionarios deserve so much money.
You think they should work for pennies when they spend millions of pesos of their own money in campaign? No way jose. It takes lots of pesos, kissing babies in hot barrios and bribing poor people to earn their votes. You think all those poor people in barrios vote for free? hahaha, The politicians have to give them rice, beans, cooking oil bottles, pasta, even veggies. Then you have to promise jobs to some people, give away free beer parties to barrio folks, give away free rum, free concerts that cost a ton of money. Where do you think all the money is coming from? the party only pays one portion, the rest, politicians have to come up on their own. If the politician loses the elections, he loses it all. No one repays him for his loss. So the risk has to be rewarded with some compensations in the end when he wins.
In order to win elections and win votes, you actually have to buy the votes.
This is why they deserve the good cash they make (legally or illegally). Chip, you think most barrio folks would vote for a candidate and not the other for free? you are dreaming. The poor folks you are trying to defend, are not so cheap to buy in the first place. They are so many that even when you spend a little cash on them, it adds up in the end.
AZB

Maybe, but the fact remains that the top positions in any large organization/company in the DR have incomes that are not unlike those being received in the top political positions.

Chip is simply comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare the income of top level officials with the income of regular professionals or high ranking officers in small to medium size companies.

Compare apples to apples and you will find no divergence in the income levels being paid to top ranking politicians vs. top ranking military personnel and top ranking individuals in the largest companies. They are being paid the going rate, there is no way around that.

*Yawn* Now, I'm going to sleep because its late! ZZZZ

-NALs

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Question

Why does the DR need a "high speed" train anyway? I mean it's not like the distance between cities is so vast. This isn't Manchuria.

Would a high speed train consume more fuel than a standard train? Would the costs of maintaining a state of the art bullet train be much higher than a standard train? Isn't this a bit of overkill? Why not just purchase a regular train and passenger cars? I like the idea of the kind of train coaches they have in the UK, where the cabins have individual doors that open directly onto the train platform.

I'm not an expert at trains-so please explain to me why the DR should buy Japanese Bullet trains.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

But more like this (actual planned model):

Purely electronic debit payment/cards...

This looks expensive.

 

[PICHARDO]

Why does the DR need a "high speed" train anyway? I mean it's not like the distance between cities is so vast. This isn't Manchuria.

Would a high speed train consume more fuel than a standard train? Would the costs of maintaining a state of the art bullet train be much higher than a standard train? Isn't this a bit of overkill? Why not just purchase a regular train and passenger cars? I like the idea of the kind of train coaches they have in the UK, where the cabins have individual doors that open directly onto the train platform.

I'm not an expert at trains-so please explain to me why the DR should buy Japanese Bullet trains.

Bullet trains are not what the DR is aiming for, high speed trains are...

The bullet trains in service in Japan and other countries are for the most part set to run at the highest possible speed to minimize travel time between vast distances. In the case of the DR, the high speed trains are just that; trains able to run at higher speeds than their Metro counterparts while being able to be deployed in short runs unlike the acceleration/deceleration requirements of bullet trains.

The train above is build by Alstom, the same company providing the SD Metro cars. They have come up with a viable commercial solution to implement such service in short runs, unlike the ones used in Japan.

The trains, given their high speed nature, need not be purchased in large quantities. Just think that four could run the entire length of the SD - Santiago line with ease every turn of the clock or less...

The high speed trains consumes less energy per run/length of track serviced than if you tried to operate one of the SD Metro cars in the same distance or service and schedule. It all ticks down to time of operation/distance/trips per schedule.

The need for a high speed train is obvious to the naked eye! The less time of travel the greater the potential for commercial success!

Think that trips to take care of a biz meeting could be scheduled within a reduced time and therefore much more productive. The same applies when a person takes the train to go shopping from one city to the other, more time saved on the actual trip in turn, represents more time to shop around.

Would you be willing to go shopping to a mall 15 minutes away or 2 1/2 hours long? The answer is simple! Self explanatory!

You could actually live in the interior provinces and work in the Malecon, all the while just commuting some mere minutes to and from work!!!

The impact is going to be huge and wide!!!
The same goes for travelers; they can get off at one point of the country and have enough time to visit the other with most of the time spent touring instead of traveling there.

Think that with the inclusion of commercial usage, goods can be transported directly to the airports to be loaded into waiting planes within much less time and expense than today...

 

[PICHARDO]

This looks expensive.

The price gets upset by the pluses it creates in the long term:

Environmental issues, heightened by concerns over the rising cost of energy and growing urbanisation, heavily influenced Alstom?s engineers during the AGV?s design and development phases. Using almost 98% of easily reusable materials (aluminium, steel, copper and glass), the AGV is a sustainable mode of transport, with very small greenhouse gas emissions. It emits only 2.2 g of CO2 per passenger km, 13 times less than a bus (30g), 50 times less than a car (115g) and 70 times less than a plane (153g).



Energy recovery brake
The AGV is also capable of producing and using its own electricity. Its braking system consists of a combined rheostat brake and energy recovery brake. When the energy generated by the motors during the braking phase is not consumed by the train, it can be fed back into the electric grid. During braking phases, the power fed back into the grid can reach 8 MW.

The AGV has been designed according to a simple principle: to adapt to the specific requirements of each operator and each line on which it will run. Its architecture is the key to this modularity which, above all, means that it can be configured to carry from 250 to 650 passengers.

The AGV?s articulated architecture with distributed drive system allows operators to change the length of their AGV trains easily while maintaining their technical characteristics. According to the operators? preference, the AGV can be configured in trains of 7, 8, 11 or 14 carriages and, depending on the configuration chosen, its capacity ranges from 250 to 650 passengers.

Greater flexibility for operators
The AGV?s modularity is synonymous with flexibility. Operators will find it easier to fine-tune the circulation plans of their very high speed trains. For example, trains departing from several stations, and running on normal railway lines, might join up to travel together at very high speed, before separating and continuing their respective journeys towards different destinations.

SOURCE : ALSTOM
ALSTOM Transport - Reveal AGV

You can see how this particular system enables the operator to modify it to their needs. In the case of the DR, the needs are very basic and nothing fancy is required. Already a good working relationship with the company has been achieved and great input from their engineers is filtering back at us...

This train is able to operate in the Bullet capacity and the high speed we're looking for, it's all on the needs of the client...

 

[ElvisNYC]

Pichardo,

Let's say the government plans to start this service SD-Santiago, so how many people are expected to use this transport between this route and at what price (without any subsidy) ?

 

[Chip]

i tell you why the funcionarios deserve so much money.
You think they should work for pennies when they spend millions of pesos of their own money in campaign? No way jose. It takes lots of pesos, kissing babies in hot barrios and bribing poor people to earn their votes. You think all those poor people in barrios vote for free? hahaha, The politicians have to give them rice, beans, cooking oil bottles, pasta, even veggies. Then you have to promise jobs to some people, give away free beer parties to barrio folks, give away free rum, free concerts that cost a ton of money. Where do you think all the money is coming from? the party only pays one portion, the rest, politicians have to come up on their own. If the politician loses the elections, he loses it all. No one repays him for his loss. So the risk has to be rewarded with some compensations in the end when he wins.
In order to win elections and win votes, you actually have to buy the votes.
This is why they deserve the good cash they make (legally or illegally). Chip, you think most barrio folks would vote for a candidate and not the other for free? you are dreaming. The poor folks you are trying to defend, are not so cheap to buy in the first place. They are so many that even when you spend a little cash on them, it adds up in the end.
AZB

Oye papa, I'm aware of what moves here in the DR, or maybe you think I'm deaf dumb and blind?

Anyway, I think a new party with different ideas and the funds to get the message out would be the first step in transforming the system of politics from a clientelistic to a purposeful system.

Sure it maybe a pie in the sky dream, but what do you expect me to do once I semi retire? I get tired of golf and since I'm married and an old fogey I can't chase the chicas like you, haha.

 

[PICHARDO]

Pichardo,

Let's say the government plans to start this service SD-Santiago, so how many people are expected to use this transport between this route and at what price (without any subsidy) ?

Not the gov but a semi-private company, for profit if you will...

To get a glimpse of the projected ridership all you need to do is to scan the already in service bus companies doing daily trips and the private/commercial vehicles as well to/from SD - Santiago. Take that number and once the time factors in (the much less travel time) then you'll get some idea of the potential and impact of such project's magnitude.

The price is going to be simply based on time travel, not distance. The high speed train operates on a time/operational basis. Just like the planes in use for travelers need to be serviced and have set expenditures on regards to time in flight, so does the high speed train falls into this category.

Distance stopped being a factor once speed of travel is what impacts how much the fares will be. The faster the speed from point A to point B, the less the fare will be; think that the operation of the trains during a 30 min cycle is much less than a 1 hour run, therefore the higher the speed the more the savings. Hence why the reasoning behind using high speed trains for the link rather than sticking to regular Metro or coaches...

On the other hand, you're totally bypassing the commercial impact; both in terms of usage and more importantly income for the system.

In the DR subsidies will be eliminated as we know them today. Instead the focus will be on a direct beneficiary level; whereareas a person qualified for such relieve will get the aid via electronic means at time of sale or services rendered. It is more practical and weeds out the potential for abuse.

The same goes for the overhaul of the power generators and billing. Once the system is redone with complete upgrades to the way we handle the subsidy to the sector, the clients will pay accordingly to usage.

A power hog will pay higher rates during peak hours; a client with average or below average usage will see better rates. In other words, the more you conserved energy the less your tariff will be.

Appliances will be heavily regulated (unlike today) so that power energy saving ones are allowed to be sold and those that require a higher amount of energy don't. Of you want to own one of the power hoggers, and then you'll pay a dear price for it upfront. Think paying the same tag for a compact car in the lowest scale to the tune of a MB McLaren, without getting the later of course.

The high speed trains offer something a conventional Metro/coach service can't: Speedy commerce in both private and commercial sectors. Since the focus is to aim at transporting people and goods to and from points of further travel, the results are too enticing to ignore.

 

[PICHARDO]

I know the big opposition and basis for it as well to the SD Metro and SD - Santiago high speed train, but let me break it down to you into tangible numbers and facts:

Let’s take the SD Metro Vs as stated by many here in the forums of DR1, that such investment is "outrageous" given the price tag; even when not one single voice has taken the time to dig deeper.

The transportation services in the city are based on the OMSA and public transportation unions (voladoras, fenatrato, etc...). These get special deals with heavy gov debts to refit the units about every four years or so. As it stands the fleets seldom meet the service lifetime they were meant to fulfill in the first place.

The gov has invested well over 700 to as much as 950 US$ million dollars into the actual fleets not even more than four or five years at the most. The fleets are anything but a distant image of their initial selves or conditioning to render the services to the public.

Go back 4 or 5 years before that, then some 4 to 5 again and the same scenario keeps repeating. Each time the invested amount keeps swelling and rendering the gov into more debt in the long term.

Now take the SD Metro and keep in mind that even when poor maintenance and seldom serviced cars, the system is capable of offering not less than a good 35 to 45 years of service (cars and mechanical infrastructure). Unlike the bus fleets, the SD Metro can render services with heavy abuse, all the while providing a greater value for the money invested than that of the buses.

Take under extreme consideration that the SD Metro uses electricity Vs gasoline/diesel to propel the system. As given the need for heavy subsidy to import a highly volatile barrel of oil is the key here.

The price of the crude oil is anyone's guess for the next years, let alone for the next decade or two. Electricity generated via hydro power, wind, solar and Ethanol will be the turning point to our needs and the system's for decades to come.

Within the initial service span of the first Metro cars, the system would be grossly cheaper than if the gov had actually invested into the traditional bus fleets!!!!
Think in the over 1 Billion US$ level or more!!!!

The SD Metro and SD - Santiago high speed train will provide new ways of commerce and open a new way for the country to develop beyond the present situation can afford us to. All the while using private funds to make it happen in the long run. The initial input by the gov is only needed to get the basic infrastructure off the ground and allow privateers to flourish in equal footing.

Mass transit is not a fad or bling bling to a country; it's the fabric of future development that will allow developing nations to evolve into civilizations capable of co-existing with the natural resources and leaving a smaller carbon footprint to damage our mother nature.

The DR is the first and only country that has undertaken true mass transportation to the complete national level. Car pooling is not the answer, buses are not the answer, and restricting free flow by private citizens via heavy taxation and monetary penalties to push them into using crowded and unreliable existent modes of public transportation is not the answer. Building a true mass transit system capable of moving large numbers of people with efficiency and time savings is the key.

In the past the world used distance to support the evolving civilizations into today's reality. Today we must embrace time travel as the key to support our natural quest to evolution as a civilization moving towards the future.

Having a high speed train service communicating all major cities and points of international travel is not crazy. Having a master plan to service all major cities with a Metro capable of covering the needs of transportation is not crazy.

The most developed cities in the world can't rip apart what's already built and lose their identity in the process. We in the other hand, have very little standing in our way to seed the ways of our future today and tomorrow.

A city like NY can't just tunnel everywhere the demand for mass transportation is needed. Imagine NYC being serviced by fleets of buses!!! That's the solution some of you think is the best served to our country's major cities in development!!!!

Just think that the construction of a single extra line (which btw was already started on a good part years before) called the second Ave line in Manhattan is mired with more problems than the eye can meet. Much of it due to the sheer development that the city already had and offers little to work with to allow anything of such magnitude to take place without disrupting or having to overcome major obstacles to become reality.

The DR will be a country that will set the standard for other developing nations when it comes to addressing the needs of mass transportation and world travel for years to come. If all goes as well as planned, the same will hold truth for Education via the tools of our new millennium "The Internet". And last but not least "Electronic Currency".

Once all steps are taken, the DR will have not need for borders or visas for the world citizens, as the system will provide the security that only those meant to stay will do so in our soil. All the while allowing free travel to all; a true open society free of requirements to all people.

Moving the basic services to the private sector is the key to remove the final doors that will allow world commerce the opportunity to offer citizens the best the world can offer at their feet. An open society has no needs to shield private corporations from competitors. As such, the consumers will get the best services at the best rate of the world market, not longer just the scarce gamut provide in today's national providers.

Global commerce is not fiction but a reality of our time. Those nations that fail to ready their countries and people for the waves sure to hit their soil, will meet a wall that can't be stopped if anything, only slow it down for a brief time, nothing more nothing less...

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

...such investment is "outrageous" given the price tag; even when not one single voice has taken the time to dig deeper.

How and where are we exactly supposed to dig? Nuria Piera and Huchy Lora sure did try, but Diandino is guarding the details with his life. I wonder why?

Anyway, since you seem to have the key to all the closely guarded inside info, perhaps you can furnish us with a copy of all the technical and financial information regarding the construction of the SD metro. While you're at it, I'd also like to see pre/post sworn declarations of assets, with supporting documentation from Diandino Pe?a. Somehow, I think that we'll see pigs fly before you or anyone else can produce those documents. :ermm:

 

[PICHARDO]

How and where are we exactly supposed to dig? Nuria Piera and Huchy Lora sure did try, but Diandino is guarding the details with his life. I wonder why?

Anyway, since you seem to have the key to all the closely guarded inside info, perhaps you can furnish us with a copy of all the technical and financial information regarding the construction of the SD metro. While you're at it, I'd also like to see pre/post sworn declarations of assets, with supporting documentation from Diandino Pe?a. Somehow, I think that we'll see pigs fly before you or anyone else can produce those documents. :ermm:

WHO CARES!!! You really think for one single second that ANY project of this magnitude is free and clear of equal or if not worst wrongdoings in the world? Are you really that naive to think that the NYC subway is not a wasp's nest of people getting their pockets full with little oversight from the public/law eyes?!?!

Wake up now! ALL projects in the world where state money is used are prone to this!

The #1 reason why the main plans for the SD Metro is not disclosed in any part is due to the political toll it takes every time some politico needs to further their standing by attacking anything that looks like progress and they're not part of it...

The SD Metro is not a little thing but a huge one. It takes loads of money to produce anything closely resembling a full fledged Metro system no matter where you live in this world.

I don't give a rat's as* about who got what and how many millions they tucked at home from it. I look back in our history and the only time when something of importance and actual development value was undertaken in this nation was under the rule of a dictator with little to explain to anyone that standed on his way.

Today we have somebody that at the very least UNDERSTANDS that if we continue to stall with the "let's fix what's broken" before we take care of our future as a nation, we'll be fracked for good...

I'm not a politician nor do I care for any political party in particular, but I DO care about what we're doing for the future of our children in this country; if that means that we must use dictator like mandates to get the job done regardless, then I most certainly approve of it!

I have plenty of financial security, so do many other people that back these plans, yet for all that, we can only do so much from our private confines.
In the DR, the fastest way to lose your self respect and that of others is to become embroiled in the politics that rule our public institutions. We talk with a soft voice but carry a nasty palo in our hands when such thing is needed.

We can, by virtue of sheer economic weight, get the exchange rate to shoot to the moon within days if not hours. Yet we all understand that it's the poorest that will get the short end of the stick at the end.

This administration opened their ears to us in such way that constructive dialogue is reached and things are getting done, ever so slowly but nevertheless done.

Before that, we did exactly what I said we could do in days to this one, the past administration turned on deaf ears to our pleas to implement the plans that the country needed to secure our children's future.

We are Dominicans; our children are Dominicans; as such we don't turn tails and head to your foreign and primary country of origin when things turn from bad to worst. We do our work from the private side of the social/economic sectors and as such carry a big responsibility that we just can't turn our backs to.

YOU CANT CHANGE THE POLITICS OF THE DR BY TALKING AND COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT SHOULD GET DONE FIRST IN YOUR OPINION, BUT YOU CAN CHANGE THE LIVES OF THE PEOPLE WHEN YOU WORK WITH WHAT YOU GOT AND DO IT RESPONSIBLY.

Education?!? What Education?!? The public Education system of the DR is based on the same failed system in use all over the world, including the biggest developed countries included in the G8...

Water? Electricity? Roads? HealthCare? Whatever gave you the idea that any of the same countries is dandy in the handling of these by along shot!!! Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, not a tiny developing country in the Caribbean to a mammoth G8 country!!! Name one country in SA or CA that provides 100% neat service to the population on ANY of those areas! Please!

Mexico? Please!!!!!
Brazil? Pretty please!!!
Argentina? You got to be kidding me!!

Stop using rulers that only match your perception and instead focus on the issues and realities at hand...

Sure as Hell we're going to make sure that taxes get collected from all levels of society and therefore all will share the burden given our scale and place in the economy. Education needs to be redone from scratch and investing a penny more than what's needed until then is sacrilege! Water is not a right but a commodity you must pay for as you do with any other item of personal or daily use. The State shouldn't shoulder the tab to invest into these sectors and be expected to keep atop of the resurgence of new technologies and upgrades, when the private sector has been proven to be the leaders at this junction in time.

Political corruption in the DR is not even close to the corruption in trillion of dollars/euros democracies. Where big as the entire yearly budget of country scams are perpetrated on a monthly basis.

If you really want to change the DR's corrupted politics, start by going back to your origins and making the changes needed there so that the democracy models that our tiny country uses as role model to copy, makes the adjustments that such behaviors will call for.

So they steal what? 100 millions peso here and there? 100 RD$ = Xrate $ 2.9 Million??? WOW!!!!! Chump change to Halliburton or EADS in the UK...

 

[A.Hidalgo]

These type of studies are very common in the US and in fact are a very useful tool in garnering public opinion and allaying fears the public may have.

Primo are you joking!! This is not done in the DR. Things are rammed through like.....a locomotive....:ermm:

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

How convenient? An inordinate amount of money is spent so that the entire transportation system can be redone from scratch, yet the education system that you admit to be broken down shouldn't get another penny. You tell me which is more important to the future of the country.

I'm not naive and I've been around the block plenty of times to know that corruption is rampant in the US, Europe and every other country in the world for that matter. The difference is that large countries with national GDPs and budgets in the trillions of dollars can absorb the damage, because we're talking about relatively small figures in terms of percentage. It's a far cry from the usual Dominican way of stealing 90% and spending the remaining 10% to make it seem like something is getting done.

Anyway, I'm not opposed to the SD metro or any other project that would help catapult our country's progress. However, I am absolutely opposed to the way it has been done. If there's nothing to hide, why all the secrecy? The excuse that it would get attacked by the opposition is not a valid one, since it still gets attacked anyway. IMO, the best defense to any such attacks would be for the administration to lay everything out in the open, for everyone to examine and make their own judgements.

As cliche as it may sound, our country is at a critical point in its history. I can appreciate Leonel's way of thinking in that he looks way beyond tomorrow, and tries to prepare for it, even if it means skipping over some steps in between. Unlike PICHARDO, I do care about who and how much is tucked away from every individual project, because that is money that belongs to the people and can certainly go a long way to improve other areas of need, such as education, healthcare, law enforcement, emergency response, etc.

In a country where there are so many problems to resolve, it is our responsibility as citizens to question decisions and make sure that every penny is used for its intended purpose and not some funcionario's weekend home or fancy yipeta.

 

[PICHARDO]

Any big project faces even bigger questions, just like the highways that got built back then and many underway today. The question is not what the actual expected trips are going to be regarding the demographic studies of such event. In the DR such planning is simply put "guess" work.

As I posted here earlier, the traffic between the two cities in the actual conditions is related to the commercial transit and private vehicles that make the trek on a daily basis. Once the high speed train is operational, the time to travel from each city and back will create the demand for the service.

You also failed to relegate the most important phase of the project: Commercial transport! As it stands, given the prices of Diesel in the DR and the world, a solution of commercial rail is a big leap both in savings and new service opportunities for the industry.

As a private citizen and consumer, your options at the time of shopping will be increased exponentially when you can hop into a train and within minutes reach an extended shopping district unlike before. Think of new frontiers that will thus create new opportunities.

Just like the SD Metro, you can't base ridership on demographics but the expected sustainability of such system, given the fact that as provided by actual events, most areas in relative distance of the stations are seeing a remarkable boost in new construction, upgrades and rates. The system itself will create the market to sustain the services it seeks to provide where there was none before.

For example, you can't base the location of stations on the premises of actual traffic patterns serviced by the public transport system and related syndicates. Think that major arteries are what need to be followed as well as cardinal points.

Just as the main avenues reflect the principal arteries where the most concentration of people is done, so too are these the point of focus reserved by the system.
The addition of buses that will collect and link to the stations is what makes the success of such planning possible.

Buses will be present in a supportive role, not as the main backbone of the system. Even when a given bus line could go out of service, even hitching a ride can get a person to the stations proximity in such event.

As it stands now, traffic jams on the surface and congestion represent 50% of the traffic problems for the city; the other 50% is in the form of the transportation entities that service it today.

Public opinion at this point in time is of little use to any project of the sheer size of these.

On the "jury's out" issue relevant to the opinion of some regarding the expectations of the Metro, let me be blunt and tell you that as pointed out before, the SD Metro is not line 1 or 5 to 6... The plan is on the national level and line 1 was only the test run to provide the confidence to investors on the capacity of the DR to undertake such mammoth projects. As it stands today, the line 1 of the SD Metro was estimated to take NOT less than 5 years to operational condition (and that's not even at full capacity). The DR was able to bring this project in less than 2 years since the first excavation took place. Many countries are in the DR taking a good look on how the DR is able to produce something so quick and top quality at the same time. Even the foreign engineers are awed by the speed and quality of the works; they too are taking the SD Metro as a learning experience to apply to future projects they undertake worldwide. Almston is using the SD Metro as a model to other countries interested in pursuing the same in their congested cities.

The SD - Santiago high speed train will be built with even faster speed, given that no tunneling will be required to such systems. The DR's core of engineers and construction professional has learned quite a tone of experience with the project ongoing. On this topic is prudent to mention that 95% of the infrastructure was designed and built by Dominicans with technical and seasoned experienced foreign personnel. The second line of the SD Metro is already underway via the studies and planning stages. The work will be done even faster and with more Dominican input than line 1.

By the end of the 4 major lines of the SD Metro, the core of professionals in the DR will have gained sufficient experience to carry on with the work on a national level.
The DR will be pursuing the empty niche to become a rail system provider/intermediary for LA soon after. With ample gained experience from the building and operations of a national network to show for it. Don't think that we will be buying our rolling stock all the time from overseas, when we could assemble in the DR under royalty programs with success...

The SD will primarily staff the system with students from the UASD and will push later for the creation and certification of relative fields of studies in the college to provide future leaders on the field.

Will the SD Metro become a success? I can tell you right now that it won't fail or rot away into pieces as this will become one of the fields our country will benefit in the future by exporting the know how and experience.

The SD Metro line #1 as it stands today, is regarded as the fastest built Metro infrastructure to date of that magnitude and under the cost that it commands anywhere in the world for that matter. So... They stole a few millions here and there and still managed to do it under the cost per km set internationally to date? They got stealing down to an art form!!!!

 

[PICHARDO]

How convenient? An inordinate amount of money is spent so that the entire transportation system can be redone from scratch, yet the education system that you admit to be broken down shouldn't get another penny. You tell me which is more important to the future of the country.

The Education system will be discarded as it is today and replaced with a new system altogether. The money to continue operations as it is today is there and will be there until the new system is started; just that increase of investment is pointless unless you love throwing money into a black hole.

I'm not naive and I've been around the block plenty of times to know that corruption is rampant in the US, Europe and every other country in the world for that matter. The difference is that large countries with national GDPs and budgets in the trillions of dollars can absorb the damage, because we're talking about relatively small figures in terms of percentage. It's a far cry from the usual Dominican way of stealing 90% and spending the remaining 10% to make it seem like something is getting done.

Wow!!! So they steal 90% of the income here? They must be the best magicians to continue to run the country with the 10% left over! They can get a job at any financial institution in the world with that kind of credentials!!!! Get real! Perceived corruption is one thing, actual amounts another...

Anyway, I'm not opposed to the SD metro or any other project that would help catapult our country's progress. However, I am absolutely opposed to the way it has been done. If there's nothing to hide, why all the secrecy? The excuse that it would get attacked by the opposition is not a valid one, since it still gets attacked anyway. IMO, the best defense to any such attacks would be for the administration to lay everything out in the open, for everyone to examine and make their own judgements.

The SD Metro is not something you can gain public support for, in any country nowadays given the world economy. Whatever gives you the idea that providing the opposition data will help your case is beyond me, given that you cross your fingers as a good scout as you state your understanding of the political system of the DR.

As cliche as it may sound, our country is at a critical point in its history. I can appreciate Leonel's way of thinking in that he looks way beyond tomorrow, and tries to prepare for it, even if it means skipping over some steps in between. Unlike PICHARDO, I do care about who and how much is tucked away from every individual project, because that is money that belongs to the people and can certainly go a long way to improve other areas of need, such as education, healthcare, law enforcement, emergency response, etc.

Cliche indeed...
Join the army and lead a revolt to fusillade those stealing from the public coffers, I prefer to focus on the things I can change and support those that will change the system from within, not with rhetorics but actions...

In a country where there are so many problems to resolve, it is our responsibility as citizens to question decisions and make sure that every penny is used for its intended purpose and not some funcionario's weekend home or fancy yipeta.

Join the crowd... But let me off from the bullhorn calling