A good friend just got back

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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My nearly-son Anthony, a civil engineer and builder, just got back form Haiti. He is so stunned that we haven't been able to speak fully.

He says that there have to be hundreds of thousands STILL entombed in the ruins. Entire schools were pancaked as were university classrooms, and office buildings. Everything was functioning, it was barely 5 o'clock local time when it hit.

He has not been able to describe coherently the devastation but says that 75% of the capital is gone.

I sure hope he is wrong.

HB
 

margaret

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Aug 9, 2006
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Here's an article on the destruction of the schools and universities in Haiti. The earthquake wiped out future leaders, nursing students etc. It also mentions a recent visit by deans from a university in the Dominican Republic who met with Preval to discuss offering students the opportunity to continue their studies in the DR. A university New Orleans has done the same. I hope other universities will follow.

Education Was Also Leveled by Quake in Haiti - NYTimes.com
 
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whirleybird

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Feb 27, 2006
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Apart from being excellent photographs, those pictures have real meaning... thank you for sharing them Adrian.
 

margaret

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Aug 9, 2006
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Thanks Adrian! I like the caption "See how many boats $1 billion dollars in aid gets?" Yeah where are all those ships?
 

Adrian Bye

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thanks for the compliments guys.

it was a bit shocking to fly in and see how few boats were in the harbor - especially given how much haiti is all over the media.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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The port is still inoperable

thanks for the compliments guys.

it was a bit shocking to fly in and see how few boats were in the harbor - especially given how much haiti is all over the media.

My understanding is that the port is still closed.. the docks fell into the water, the road to the port is rubble. So that most aid is coming in through transport planes and by ship to Barahona and perhaps Cap Haitian

I know that the DR navy has sent over 6 small boats from its navy which were the first to land in Jacmel.
 

Adrian Bye

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that would make more sense if the port was closed.

there were definitely a lot of planes & helicopters going in and out
 

woofsback

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if governments really want to they can

seems from stories i've heard from past news articles

armys can get a make shift highway in under 24 hrs.
they have vehicles which can travel all terrains

why isn't thier technology used here more than thier money?

if it was a war they would have been from one side to another by now :(
 

mountainannie

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seems from stories i've heard from past news articles

armys can get a make shift highway in under 24 hrs.
they have vehicles which can travel all terrains

why isn't thier technology used here more than thier money?

if it was a war they would have been from one side to another by now :(


Well this is not a war... So there are protocols involved.. sovereign governments, actors in place all that stuff..

I am not privy to how high up on the list the port is.. or what work is being done. I am certain that if there were massive work being done on the port, there would be complaints that that was taking personnel and time away from saving lives and making the survivors safe before the rains come.

If you go to Relief Web, you will see listings of 272 job openings for agencies working in Haiti.. and this is just a small part of the openings. None of the aid agencies could possibly been prepared for this. No one has the personnel in place. And, alas, it is the aid agencies who are really in charge of delivering the aid.. not the military who are there really only for security.

And it is not easy to get people to work long term in Haiti. It was already a hardship post----some friends in the State Department said that Iraq and Afghanistan were preferred posts to Haiti. And you will see from the job descriptions that many of these jobs are highly technical... requiring years of background. Remember that in all these NGOs receiving government money.. every dime must be accounted for.

Lots of people are dead. More will die before this is over... from wound complications, from diseases, from trauma of all kinds.
 

Adrian Bye

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i talked to a couple of low level military guys (20 yrs old, doing security). they weren't very happy about being in haiti.

i got the overall impression that the military presence was more important than results, but it was just a superficial look.
 

bob saunders

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Well this is not a war... So there are protocols involved.. sovereign governments, actors in place all that stuff..

I am not privy to how high up on the list the port is.. or what work is being done. I am certain that if there were massive work being done on the port, there would be complaints that that was taking personnel and time away from saving lives and making the survivors safe before the rains come.

If you go to Relief Web, you will see listings of 272 job openings for agencies working in Haiti.. and this is just a small part of the openings. None of the aid agencies could possibly been prepared for this. No one has the personnel in place. And, alas, it is the aid agencies who are really in charge of delivering the aid.. not the military who are there really only for security.

And it is not easy to get people to work long term in Haiti. It was already a hardship post----some friends in the State Department said that Iraq and Afghanistan were preferred posts to Haiti. And you will see from the job descriptions that many of these jobs are highly technical... requiring years of background. Remember that in all these NGOs receiving government money.. every dime must be accounted for.

Lots of people are dead. More will die before this is over... from wound complications, from diseases, from trauma of all kinds.

Canadian Military are doing much more than security, and I believe that's true for the Americans also. Delivering Aid, performing Medical aid, water....etc. Soldiers do more than hold guns and shoot people.
 
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Nice thought but hardly realistic

That's the problem with "Stories"

How long are these "24 hour highways", where were they built, what assets were in place, what was the terrain, what was their purpose? Did they have to carry 100,000 lbs trucks and occasional 70 ton equipment, or were they trails for light fast vehicles?

Sure, a modern Army can move armor 200 miles a day, but there is nothing left of the terrain they tore up getting there. Soft civilian trucks, the ones carrying needed supplies aren't going to follow tank trails

You suppose they want to infuse "their money" into local economy, trucks, construction companies etc?

Yup, HMMWV's can traverse rough terrain, but they can't carry much, HEMTT's can carry one heck of a load, but they need some type of road or travel will take forever, they will break and nothing will get done

Where are the thousands of needed truck coming from if the port isn't available? The road to the DR is already falling apart from the beating it is taking, another sub standard "24 hour" road will solve nothing

A "Blitzkrieg" assault and permanent supply lines are very different things, heck, the supply lines in Iraq are still not stable after 8 year sand they have much "smoother" terrain




seems from stories i've heard from past news articles

armys can get a make shift highway in under 24 hrs.
they have vehicles which can travel all terrains

why isn't thier technology used here more than thier money?

if it was a war they would have been from one side to another by now :(
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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An AP article here says that the port road has been reconstructed and the port is operable.

Changing Perspectives: US Troops scaling down

I did not mean to imply that the military was not doing anything except security... certainly they are helping in many ways-- but they were sent in primarily for security-- to protect the aid distribution, to ensure order.

Canada has always done a great deal in Haiti.. as Haiti is its largest recipient of foreign aid.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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One is not allowed to criticise the American military these days - that is taboo. I am anticipating a load of abuse after I write this - so be it but I tell no lies.
The Marines are there for security? OK/
They are getting paid a fine salary.
They are not being shot at.
They are not in a combat situation.

So why the nasty attitude?

I have heard several horror stories about these snotty nosed 23 year old testosterone fueled idiots pointing guns at people and bullying them for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON.

An example - a US woman volunteer doctor at the border asking,
"which of the 3 lines he should wait in. "
"Get back in the ****ing line and shut the **** up."
"Excuse me sir but I was only..."
"**** off and get in line"
The he pointed his gun in her face.
My Haitian / US citizen friend who was standing next to her complained about this.
"Keep your ****ing monkey under control" was the response.

Now I can fully understand if this was Iraq and the soldier might die horribly at any moment, but this is Haiti.
Have a little respect.
These guys are on the clock.

This, according to my friends, is more indicative of the marine's attitudes than the basketball playing, fun and friendly attitude portrayed on T.V.

Now remember these guys are getting paid and they are in no danger.
That stinks.

And yes, I beleive they have an obligation not to be a bunch of arseholes.
 

bob saunders

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One is not allowed to criticise the American military these days - that is taboo. I am anticipating a load of abuse after I write this - so be it but I tell no lies.
The Marines are there for security? OK/
They are getting paid a fine salary.
They are not being shot at.
They are not in a combat situation.

So why the nasty attitude?

I have heard several horror stories about these snotty nosed 23 year old testosterone fueled idiots pointing guns at people and bullying them for ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD REASON.

An example - a US woman volunteer doctor at the border asking,
"which of the 3 lines he should wait in. "
"Get back in the ****ing line and shut the **** up."
"Excuse me sir but I was only..."
"**** off and get in line"
The he pointed his gun in her face.
My Haitian / US citizen friend who was standing next to her complained about this.
"Keep your ****ing monkey under control" was the response.

Now I can fully understand if this was Iraq and the soldier might die horribly at any moment, but this is Haiti.
Have a little respect.
These guys are on the clock.

This, according to my friends, is more indicative of the marine's attitudes than the basketball playing, fun and friendly attitude portrayed on T.V.

Now remember these guys are getting paid and they are in no danger.
That stinks.

And yes, I beleive they have an obligation not to be a bunch of arseholes.

While your friend's friends story could be very well true, the majority of marines do not act this way, just as the majority of Haitians don't sell their children or steal, there are enough that do to cause people to generalize. 2nd and Third hand stories mean nothing. I'm in the Canadian Air force but have dealt extensive over the years with American Military- They are not all like A FEW GOOD MEN.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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I am sure there are many decent Marines on the ground.

If you doubt the story -fine - but that does not mean id did not happen.
Her "****ing monkey" is ex-US military and that is why he was so shocked.

But my point remains.
They have have no right to act like arseholes - and in many cases that is what is happening.
If other groups acted like this they would be fired or reprimanded.
Just because you are a soldier it does not give you the right to behave like an animal.

They should learn some manners and a little respect.