Is it really possible for the values of North Coast businesses to be threatened?

All sorts of posts can be read on DR1, and anyone can post. Don't get excited about everything you read.

Although it may not look like it on the map, port au prince, haiti, is along way from Sosua/Puerto Plata. I do not believe there is any reason to think that large numbers of Haitians are going to be relocated here. I say "here" because I live in Sosua and have not heard anyone worrying about an influx of Haitians. What does worry people is that we are not getting an influx of tourists here.

Having experienced Sosua for what I would consider a lengthy enough period of time to have a valid opinion, I would expect life to go on as normal. It is usual for Expats moving into any area where tourism is high to buy into secure property, and so I expect as long as people keep to these simple and obvious guidelines then life shouldn?t be disrupted much, if at all.
Haitians and Dominicans in the Sosua and Pto Plata areas tend to be in strife with each other over things that are unimportant and never seen or known about to the average Expat or tourist. Yes there are oportunists that will grab your back, take your wallet or even threaten you with a machette if you wander down a dark alley after dark, but that is the same in most peoples neighbourhoods where ever you are.

Yes crime may well go up if the population goes up, that is natural. It should not effect anyone who isn?t involved, and if people are then they know the risks and so take the blows. From what I understand the area has taken a bit of a knock over recent years, people blame alsorts for this, dive in tourism, saturation of girls, problems with corruption, feeling unsafe and now saturation of Hatians (unwarrented as it is everywhere here in the country).
In reality every tourist hotspot has its ups and downs, years don?t run smoothly and it is difficult to keep up the demand for whatever area of income you decide to follow, that?s why the turnover is so high in tourist hotspots, people jump in expecting it to be like it was on vacation. Quite simply it isn?t.
So overall people attracted to Sosua and Cabarete know the people and the area and what is on offer and why they are there, I doubt much will be affected by more Haitians moving in.
I see absolutely no reason why torusim should be affected at all other than people continuously bringing up negative predictions and outright untruths about the aftermath of the PaP disaster, the falsity that is being passed down networks about what is happening in DR is going to do more damage than if the entire country of Haiti moved into DR. I have read about people cancelling vacations and alsorts on unfounded tales from people outside of the country (maybe picking up the exagerated claptrap reported via certain US news channels). Although it is tough and I don?t feel for these panic merchants at all in thier decision, it is affecting the numbers, not alot, but enough I expect.

Well, I have a quite different opinion. I think there is comming more and more Haitiens to Sosua. There are big crowds of Haitian youngsters roaming around town, stealing and begging and also work a little as shoe shine boys. Most of them sniffing glue and other things. You can see many of them sleeping on the sidewalks at Pedro Clisante at night.
I'm covinced this will affect tourism very soon if the authoritys not acting quick.
I have had more than 10 good years in Sosua myself, but I don't like the development with more and more Haitiens here, and consider to sell my appartment and move on.

Tor said:

Well, I have a quite different opinion. I think there is comming more and more Haitiens to Sosua. There are big crowds of Haitian youngsters roaming around town, stealing and begging and also work a little as shoe shine boys. Most of them sniffing glue and other things. You can see many of them sleeping on the sidewalks at Pedro Clisante at night.
I'm covinced this will affect tourism very soon if the authoritys not acting quick.
I have had more than 10 good years in Sosua myself, but I don't like the development with more and more Haitiens here, and consider to sell my appartment and move on.

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That is a real shame.
Where would you consider moving to?

Nothing decided yet. Just don't like the development with more and more haitiens here.

Tor said:

Well, I have a quite different opinion. I think there is comming more and more Haitiens to Sosua. There are big crowds of Haitian youngsters roaming around town, stealing and begging and also work a little as shoe shine boys. Most of them sniffing glue and other things. You can see many of them sleeping on the sidewalks at Pedro Clisante at night.
I'm covinced this will affect tourism very soon if the authoritys not acting quick.
I have had more than 10 good years in Sosua myself, but I don't like the development with more and more Haitiens here, and consider to sell my appartment and move on.

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I've got 10 years in Sosua, too, and 25+ years in the country. Yes, there may be more shoe shiners on the street, but to my eyes a few more and most certainly not "big crowds". Whether all are Haitians (immigrants since the earthquake) I don't know, just because they are dark skinned doesn't mean they are newcomers. As far as begging is concerned, I wouldn't know; except I have never been approached by any, except for them to see whether I wanted my shoes shined. As far as sleeping on streets, I am not on the streets late at night so have no way of knowing if the number of street-sleepers has increased.

Mrgood, if you are thinking about making an investment then you should be here checking things out and drawing your conclusions. Why any foreigner would want to come here and make an investment in a tourist related business is beyond my understanding, especially now when there are not nearly enough tourists to support the business already here.

Do a search of the archives for posts of starting a business here. In more than one you will see it said that the best way to leave the DR with $1 million is to come to the DR with $2 million.

mrgood1000 said:

If there are more and more Haitians coming onto the North Coast and begging, pickpocketing, whoring, stealing, sleeping in the streets, sniffing glue in doorways...then there are BIG troubles brewing. North Americans and Europeans already feel guilty enough for climate change. They don't need to see this kind of thing. The government better create tourist police to keep these kids out. What are we going to see next in Cabarete, little emaciated black kids with flies swarming around them and their expressionless faces? What, is Save The Children going to come to Cabarete to make a commercial?
As much as I empathize with this horror that they endure and that their breathren still in Haiti endure, I wouldn't want to consider making an investment in property anytime soon. The government must keep these kids away and help create a kind of Disneyland atmosphere for the white tourist. The tourist must believe that there is peace and justice in the world even though intellectually he knows well otherwise. But damnit, he is just vacationing for a week. He deals with enough %&%$& back home. Only God can save the DR now. Amen

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This perceived Haitian invasion of Sosua is not happening in my view.
There always was a strong presence.
I see no more now than 6 years ago.
I suggest that you talk to the shoeshine boys and you will discover that the vast majority were either born in the D.R.to Haitian parents or are of Dominican heritage.
Try speaking Creole to them and you discover that they only speak Spanish!!
They have never been to Haiti - and why would they? - it sucks for people with nothing - they couldn't get travel documents as they cannot get birth certificates and passports. They are undocumented Dominicans.

Seriously, say,"Sak Passe?" and if they respond "Na bule" then you may have a Haitian on your hands - if they do not understand then they are Dominican and therefore your gracious hosts.
Try it and report back.

Many people think they can tell a Haitian by looking. I used to think this too but I am constantly surprised when I find I am wrong.

Also they have the tourist police - what are they supposed to do? Remove 'little emaciated black kids' (your words, not mine) because it offends European sensibilities?

Hopefully this perceived increase in Haitians in Sosua will inspire the bigots to leave.
That would be a positive thing for Sosua.
They are not needed.

This is unbelievable!!! Juan Dolio is a tourist town. If you break down the population it is around 80% Haitian, 15% dominicans and 5% expats/foreign tourists. We have no more crime here than the rest of the country. Why do people think it is only Haitians who commit crimes?????

matilda

Matilda said:

This is unbelievable!!! Juan Dolio is a tourist town. If you break down the population it is around 80% Haitian, 15% dominicans and 5% expats/foreign tourists. We have no more crime here than the rest of the country. Why do people think it is only Haitians who commit crimes?????

matilda

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Your numbers surprised me when I read them at first but then Juan Dolio is a much classier place so actually I can beleive it totally.

I think in the case of Sosua (a place that I love and lived in for years) there is a chicken and egg paradox.
Do dodgy people go to Sosua because it was a dodgy place to start with or is it being made dodgy by dodgy people moving there subsequently?

Disclaimer - if you do not want to be around the dodginess in Sosua then you do not need to be.

Matilda said:

This is unbelievable!!! Juan Dolio is a tourist town. If you break down the population it is around 80% Haitian, 15% dominicans and 5% expats/foreign tourists. We have no more crime here than the rest of the country. Why do people think it is only Haitians who commit crimes?????

matilda

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you are right, 80% maybe more, are haitians. but they are haitians working in the construction of the new Juan Dolio. when construction is over,you wont see them in the streets. or the beaches, like you see in Sosua.
have you seen any haitian walking in the streets of Guavaberry or Metro?
do you think haitians will be allowed to swim in front of Marbella or Costa del Sol?
Juan Dolio will be a destination mainly for middle and upper class dominicans from Santo Domingo, so there will be rules.
The problem in Sosua is not just the haitians begging. I think the mayor problem is the haitians prostitutes and sankies infected with AIDS.

Ken2 said:

Do a search of the archives for posts of starting a business here. In more than one you will see it said that the best way to leave the DR with $1 million is to come to the DR with $2 million.

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Ken, he's being mr goad. This looks like mrgood100 to me, you responded to some of his posts 4 years ago
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/51012-if-happens-sosua-finished.html

Plus ca change, I see :cheeky:.

mrgood1000 said:

I'm 58 looking for a nice 20 year old girl from a good family. Anyone want to do a set up?

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If you don't mind raising someone else's kid(s) and growing a pair of horns, it just might be possible.

mrgood1000 said:

Right now the two towns are great. Plenty of cheap sex and hotels. It is clearly disconcerting how much commercial property is already on the market which caters to tourists, however. It almost seems like the present entrepreneurs are at least giving some thought to cashing in their chips.

The world economy seems to be improving a bit. It might take a while before people feel rich enough to begin traveling again but maybe tourism will come back. I will suggest that the revenues for the hotels must be really, really small to justify the cheap asking prices in the real estate listings. And obviously the hotel owners wanting to sell think the prices will drop even further. It's called "taking your losses" and moving on. Everyone must do it from time to time.

The tourist season is coming to an official close in a couple weeks: it's time to lick your wounds and hide your scars. The DR is the place for me. I'm coming home. I'm 58 looking for a nice 20 year old girl from a good family. Anyone want to do a set up?

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And for me therein lies the real issue for Sosua.
As long as Sosua is seen as a place that middle aged men can access cheap sex, nothing will change. It will always attract the prostitutes and the johns, neither of which are conducive to a 'respectable', 'family' holiday destination.
Anybody who has invested in a business in Sosua over the last 30 years yet complains about the moral standards declining in the town does not have a leg to stand on. Sosua did not become the town it is over night. The sex trade in Sosua predates the vast majority of expat businesses by years.


Disclaimer - Sosua has a lot more to offer than cheap tarts!!

Dodgy in Sosua

I have recently read a rave review from someone on dr1 about their visit to Sosua and I could not help but wonder if there's another town named Sosua somewhere.

Sosua still seems to me to be an open-air brothel, a working man's Playboy Mansion, etc. and that it would take someone who is visually impaired to not notice this.

So, really, all this concern about how Haitians fleeing their disaster will somehow bring down the quality of life in Sosua, etc. is hard to understand.

I am a longtime fan of the DR, its people, its variety, (music--not so miuch!)--but anyone trying to spin the facts about the nasty little town of Sosua would probably have signed on to Las Vegas' laughable campaign a few years ago to become a "family destination."

johnny said:

have you seen any haitian walking in the streets of Guavaberry or Metro?
do you think haitians will be allowed to swim in front of Marbella or Costa del Sol?

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Yes I have. We were guests of my good friend who had rented a villa. By crikey there were a bunch of Haitians staying in a villa on the first tee!!! Dragging down the tone of the neighborhood for sure!! Guavaberry must have become the AIDS capital of the south coast!!

By the way, the only Dominicans I saw when I played at Guavaberry were the caddy, the bar-staff and the girl in the pro-shop. There were 2 Haitian gardeners - a truly risky business when I am in possession of a long iron with intent.

johnny said:

The problem in Sosua is not just the haitians begging. I think the mayor problem is the haitians prostitutes and sankies infected with AIDS.

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You think that your Dominican sex workers are any different?
There it is in black and white folks - Johnny seems to have personal experience of STDs in Sosua. Please post your specific experiences so the rest of the tourists can avoid the same happening to them.
Hope the itching has stopped, Johnny.
Maybe you should have used a Johnny, Johnny??

To answer the OP's original question - as long as there are uneducated bigots posting drivel and misinformation on fora like this then there is a small chance that the value of business could be affected. Other small minded twits might be put of from visiting, leading to a proportional increase in decent people who visit. This in turn will attract more decent folk and thus increase business values.

perhaps you could tell us where you would go instead abe - it would be more useful than running a place down,lets be a bit more positive and tell us your favourite places

mrgood1000 said:

A poster talked about a potential influx of new Haitians from the earthquake. He suggested that if they settled in Sosua or Cabarete then crime would go up causing problems for tourism. Tourists are a fickle bunch and don't tend to like violent surprizes. (I wouldn't want to own property of any kind in Acapulco for years to come.)

Is the government looking at allowing Haitians to settle in tourist areas or is it strongly going to prevent new immigrants from there? Please advise.

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What is the problem, I thought that most of the tourist living in this island love the Haitians.