Differences in dealing with drug war: DR & Jamaica

From what I've heard drug use and whatnot permeates Jamaica moreso than it does the DR. I would also hazard to guess that drug use, especially marijuana, is widely acceptable. It still is not here and is frowned upon by most. To have widespread acts like in Jamaica you have to have consensus, which would be difficult to happen here in the DR.

It's one thing for everyone to get on board for a juelga because of lack of power and good streets but it is another to openly support a drug lord.

Maybe because Quirino was caught two or three years after he got into the drug business.

This is quite typical. If anyone takes the time to notice, almost everyone that gets involved in the drug business only lasts a few short years and then ends up either in prison, dead or running from Dominican authorities.

It doesn't really matter if its a small guy or one of the largest 'pejes', as they are called; Dominican authorities attacks them all and rather swiftly.

That could be the biggest difference between the officially no nonsense towards drugs Dominican authorities and the much more relaxed Jamaican authorities, the latter being a country where smoking marijuana can be done in front of a police officer and no one will care.

NALs said:

This is quite typical. If anyone takes the time to notice, almost everyone that gets involved in the drug business only lasts a few short years and then ends up either in prison, dead or running from Dominican authorities.

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I assume we are talking about the narcos that aren't directly on the government dole?

Chip said:

I assume we are talking about the narcos that aren't directly on the government dole?

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Florian Marchena was a drug dealer that provided -from jail- free cable service to the whole provincia of Pedernales.

Rolando Florian, recently killed, was able to have 15 children, and to orchestrate the murder of several people who dare to criticize/challenge him, also from jail.

Makes you wonder; what do these people go to jail for?.

Here in Spain today I saw the Jamaica problem on the UK TV news channels. I've never seen the DR on the UK TV news channels. Why?

morlandg said:

Here in Spain today I saw the Jamaica problem on the UK TV news channels. I've never seen the DR on the UK TV news channels. Why?

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Maybe because Jamaica is a former UK colony and DR is not.

Vacara said:

Florian Marchena was a drug dealer that provided -from jail- free cable service to the whole provincia of Pedernales.

Rolando Florian, recently killed, was able to have 15 children, and to orchestrate the murder of several people who dare to criticize/challenge him, also from jail.

Makes you wonder; what do these people go to jail for?.

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2 differences:
a. local guys go to local prison(of their choosing) and have everyone from the Mayor General, jefe cocinero, corredor of the institution to the chofer who drives in his conjugal visits on the payroll.
b. Dudus is being extradited to Miami to be tried in US court for narcotrafficking.

If some Dominican dealer who was sweet to the whole town was in the same straits you might see some local protests with tire burning and the unrest. The amount of protest doesnt matter on how long he was in the game. It only mattered whose attention he got when he was doing it. Dudus got the attention of the USDOJ.

RacerX said:

2 differences:
a. local guys go to local prison(of their choosing) and have everyone from the Mayor General, jefe cocinero, corredor of the institution to the chofer who drives in his conjugal visits on the payroll.
b. Dudus is being extradited to Miami to be tried in US court for narcotrafficking.

If some Dominican dealer who was sweet to the whole town was in the same straits you might be some local protest with tire burning and the rest.

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My point is; According to Nals, Dominican drug dealers go to jail after a few years of drug dealing, hence the question; what for?, to have babies, kill people and provide for their hometowns?.

RacerX said:

2 differences:
a. local guys go to local prison(of their choosing) and have everyone from the Mayor General, jefe cocinero, corredor of the institution to the chofer who drives in his conjugal visits on the payroll.
b. Dudus is being extradited to Miami to be tried in US court for narcotrafficking.

If some Dominican dealer who was sweet to the whole town was in the same straits you might see some local protests with tire burning and the unrest. The amount of protest doesnt matter on how long he was in the game. It only mattered whose attention he got when he was doing it. Dudus got the attention of the USDOJ.

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There you have it.

The Sherrif of Nottingham has finally caught up with that pesky Robin Hood fellow and is dragging him back to the castle dungeon. Did we not expect the people of Sherwood Forest to be more than a little upset? If this guy had been prosecuted and jailed in JA island he would heve still been able to feed his dogs without missing a beat and continue his leisurely lifestyle (probably more safely than out on the streets) just like they do in the DR.

When the DEA pays these governments more money than the criminals do, allegiances switch.

RacerX said:

If some Dominican dealer who was sweet to the whole town was in the same straits you might see some local protests with tire burning and the unrest. The amount of protest doesnt matter on how long he was in the game. It only mattered whose attention he got when he was doing it. Dudus got the attention of the USDOJ.

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I don't remember any protest when Quirino was caught and later extradited.

Vacara said:

I don't remember any protest when Quirino was caught and later extradited.

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did the local sindico come in with gravy train and make work jobs. Thats crucial because if one sugar daddy replaced the last one then peoples loyalties are fickle. But if we are going to be left high and dry then we gotta revolt.

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Limited Compliance

We shall see similar pictures in places like Capotillo and other drug strongholds in the not too far future.
(Jamaica just had a longer drug culture than the DR and thus is more 'advanced' in this.)

But we are catching up fast and all the ingredients (drug money, weapons, thug gangs, infiltrated 'authorities', poverty) are there for a change for the worse.

For the time being this country still extradites mid level drug bosses to the US but there is a certain limit...

donP

Chip said:

I assume we are talking about the narcos that aren't directly on the government dole?

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Last time I checked, the military is the most important, most powerful, and most respected government institution and yet, top guys within such institution have been taken down from their cloud and planted firmly on earth.

@ Vacara, let's not pretend that exceptions are the rule. They are not.

Lambada said:

The alleged drug lord goes by the name of Christopher Coke (!) and he apparently looks after his supporters, giving them money when they are out of work. Fairly similar to Quirino Castillo here in the DR a few years back, who was alleged to have provided for many in his area.

Yet we never had mass protests here when El Don (Quirino Castillo) was arrested, like Kingston is having now. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to why?

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The gang/drug trade culture in Jamaica is inherently tied to political parties. Each garrison community is represented by a political party (JLP or PNP) which colludes with the gangs. Politicians can't do anything in the community without consulting with the gangs, and vice versa. Patronage at its finest!

The line between thug and politician is extremely thin, more so than in the DR, I would say. Yes, Dominican politicians are dogs, but it's really unbelievable what goes on in Jamaican politics. From what I have seen in the DR, the link between the drug trade and political parties is not as strong as in Jamaica. (Not deny a link in the DR, but it is not like the link in Jamaica.)

What has so many people up in arms is that Tivoli Gardens, the garrison community where Coke held reign, is a JLP territory, represented by Golding no less. So this is seen as a real betrayal of the "way things work." This is a political disaster for the JLP on many levels.

As one who worked with "non-aligned" (neither political nor gang affiliated) organizations in garrison communities in Kingston and MoBay, (not Tivoli, but neighborhoods with similar demographics and similar problems), I disagree with the notion that these guys are benevolent Robin Hood types, taking care of people when they are down.

Yes, the have to pay off the community in some way. But believe me, there is a price to pay for that "help" and anyone who does not join up is considered an enemy. These are people who resist the building of schools, because it will reduce their labor force.

Thankfully, the DR does not have this gang culture.

donP said:

We shall see similar pictures in places like Capotillo and other drug strongholds in the not too far future.
(Jamaica just had a longer drug culture than the DR and thus is more 'advanced' in this.)

But we are catching up fast and all the ingredients (drug money, weapons, thug gangs, infiltrated 'authorities', poverty) are there for a change for the worse.

For the time being this country still extradites mid level drug bosses to the US but there is a certain limit...

donP

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We wouldn't expect anything else... from you anyway.

I really think people fail to realize that drugs are still a cultural taboo here. Anybody who lives here and listens to people talking would realize this. In the US someone can kid about using drugs and one won't be ostracized like they are here.

This may seem unlikely at first given that a lot of money is laundered here and no doubt there is a significant albeit minor drug user community here but it is as such.

Therefore, if some gang members want to start a war with the local police or whatnot they can't expect to have any help from the community, including shelter.