The right to confront an American for being a perv.

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Anastacio

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I was sitting in a restaurant the other day with my daughter and partner, having a generally relaxing afternoon/evening. Without wanting to I was subjected to the overly load drivel being spoken by and overly confident (obviously) sex tourist. The usual situation, single guy with his dominican little backup tigre and back watcher friend there to help him negotiate the local girls and way around the city wthout getting himself into trouble. Rude obnoxious and generally not giving a toss about offending others around him. ?Psssssttt? at every girl walking by, telling of the stories of the 1000pesos girls he had experienced on his stay, seemed quite proud of it.
Anyway, I am not uptight about this kind of thing, but it seems S D is very different when it comes to this kind of thing compared to other areas of the country and being a little descrete is more important IMO.
Anyway, my partner got up to go and buy something of a vendor and I heard the phwooarr and the following comments of what he would like to do to her, I instantly got up and went over to his table, got in his face and told him I would overlook those comments this time, but show some respect, I was here with my family and so were other families. Typical reaction from him, sort of denied it and apologised stumbling on his words and pretty much the reaction you?d expect from a guy who feels the need to tell the entire street about his sexual exploits.

Anyway, I put up with the tigres of the colmados and the passing motorbikes from Dominicans as it seems to be pretty much a cultural norm, and who am I to change that, she accepts it, or ignores it, whatever...

Why would I feel I expect an American to show more respect for me, and not a Dominican? I have confused myself with this as I am unsure if I can be excused for my outburst, maybe it was the commentary or maybe it was that from Dominicans all I ever hear is a whistle, not the indepth ʹll do this and I have done that etcetc.?

Thoughts??
 
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Lambada

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Anastacio said:
Thoughts??
Click to expand...

Maybe there's bit of you that thinks the American should 'know better' because he probably has had the benefits of a better education & more opportunities? Or maybe you feel more secure with challenging a gringo sex tourist, because as an expat resident you maybe feel one rung up the ladder?

Either way, he was lucky it was you. Dominican men in committed relationships (or even those in casual ones) can react instantly to situations like these, some with a 9mm not verbally.

Btw and as a sidenote, if you ever were to get evidence of a sex tourist molesting children, I recently posted some links in Legal Forum of international bodies to report to.
 
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MaineGirl

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ugh

At a hotel in STI this winter I was relaxing by the pool when an oversexed man came and sat and soon had a little circle of tourist men around him talking about lots of exploits and how to score. The lady next to me kept rolling her eyes. I finally got up and left.

It may be a sex tourism destination but it is not what I go there for and I certainly have little tolerance for listening to these guys brag about sleeping with young girls and how to score.

Sex tourist men listen up: we know you love sex but poolside with ladies present is not the place to bring it up.
 
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greydread

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Anastacio said:
Anyway, I put up with the tigres of the colmados and the passing motorbikes from Dominicans as it seems to be pretty much a cultural norm, and who am I to change that, she accepts it, or ignores it, whatever...

Why would I feel I expect an American to show more respect for me, and not a Dominican? I have confused myself with this as I am unsure if I can be excused for my outburst, maybe it was the commentary or maybe it was that from Dominicans all I ever hear is a whistle, not the indepth ʹll do this and I have done that etcetc.?

Thoughts??
Click to expand...

He was a guest in your country and he acted in a manner which he probably would not have in his own environment. I have teenage daughters and in your shoes, with the way the guy was audibly offensive I wouldn't have the slightest problem if the story ended up with you picking his teeth out of your shoe. Some people require harsh lessons. If I heard other American guys talking like that in public and being offensive in that manner, in short representing all of us badly I would be compelled to say something to him.

I have run into more than a few Dominican Men around Santo Domingo who had similar bad experiences with American visitors and developed preconceived opinions until they got to know us better because of guys like him.
 
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LindseyKaufman

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Let the lesson be that each of us, no matter what country we originally are from, are here acting as a representative of our country. Our country will be judged by how we act. It is the sad truth, because we all are guilty of over generalizing.

The OP had a very legitimate complaint, and by bringing it up, it gave us all the opportunity to look at what we do that may be judged in bad taste by others.

Lindsey
 
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engineerfg

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Anastacio


The reason I would be upset in one situation (gringo sex tourist) and not the other (local tigre cat calling my gf) is because:


1. Local Tigre - makes cat calls because my girlfriend is beautiful. he respects/appreciates the beauty, makes culturally acceptable cat calls. it's a joke/fun.

2. Sex Tourist - has no respect for women, that's why he pays for sex. his cat calls are vulgar and more about him then about her.
 
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laurapasinifan

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engineerfg said:
Anastacio


The reason I would be upset in one situation (gringo sex tourist) and not the other (local tigre cat calling my gf) is because:


1. Local Tigre - makes cat calls because my girlfriend is beautiful. he respects/appreciates the beauty, makes culturally acceptable cat calls. it's a joke/fun.

2. Sex Tourist - has no respect for women, that's why he pays for sex. his cat calls are vulgar and more about him then about her.
Click to expand...

this is the scenario I would go along with...

the dominican can throw out things that slide, I went through for three years with my ex GF she didnt take 99% of them badly..

the gringo is just too crude usually and if he knows the language well enough usually he tones down his yapping..

its too bad that the vulgar obnoxious are so easily observed...but as for the sexploits of the dominican women, by virtue of sheer numbers alone the dominican men decimate their own women beyond anything the SEX TOURIST could acheive.

doesnt make the pig gringo any less obnoxious.....

just a view

bob
 
AlterEgo

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Lambada said:
Btw and as a sidenote, if you ever were to get evidence of a sex tourist molesting children, I recently posted some links in Legal Forum of international bodies to report to.
Click to expand...

Back in January we were on the beach in Palenque - my husband and I, our daughter, her husband and their 3 yr old son. We're used to seeing the European men with the youngish Dominican women. However this particular day everyone was in the water and I was at the table alone with the grandson when I noticed 2 gringos [white males about 40-50, my thought at the time was that they were American or Canadian from their clothes and bearing] who were simply surrounded by young boys [8-11 I'd say]. Over a dozen of them - no girls. They were lending them their cameras to take photos of each other, playing in the water with them in an 'odd' way, handing them small things that I couldn't identify from where I was. It disturbed me. I stood up and I watched them, and when they saw me watching they moved down the beach. Like the Pied Piper the boys frolicked behind them. I had just about convinced myself that I was being a paranoid old fart when my daughter came out of the water and marched up to the table and asked me if I saw the perverts with the boys. We felt helpless, didn't know what to do, who to call, where to go. Next time I'll be prepared with a phone # to call.

Sorry Anastacio, don't mean to hijack your thread, but Lambada's post dredged up my feelings from that day....

AE
 
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Gabriela

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Back in 1990, in Sosua

Lambada said:
Btw and as a sidenote, if you ever were to get evidence of a sex tourist molesting children, I recently posted some links in Legal Forum of international bodies to report to.
Click to expand...

The tricky issue for me is age of consent. I remember wanting to cry and/or scream every time I saw my 11 year old daughter giggling in the pool with the 14 year old mistress of this 80 year old creep. Then I returned to Toronto where my 50 something dentist was bragging to one of his perverted pals about the hot 14 year olds in Sosua. I soooo remember his bragging about how they "love" him and worship him. He was laughing at them. I was in the chair and his instruments were sharp or else I would have said a mouthful. But I never went back or allowed my daughter into his chair. The 80 something creep was not Canadian, seemed Dominican, Italian, or Spanish. So much for the myth of Latin lovers.Who needs Viagra when you can enjoy young flesh? As for the Canadian, I should have reported him. I think he packed up and moved to the DR. Maybe he's even on this board... Or dead.
 
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jrhartley

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is the age of consent 14 in toronto ? and why did he have other people in the room while he was seeing a patient and why didnt you report him for talking so openly about it.
 
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SKing

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I have noticed that Americans don't care about what they say about women, especially if they think that people don't understand them. Once, I was in Sajoma and speaking with a guy that I did not know was a Dom-York and he did not know that I was American. We were chatting and then when his "boys" came over they asked him "wassup" in English and he spoke in English very explicitly about what he wanted to do with me and my nice a$$ and what he wanted me to do to him with my nice lips. Needless to say, he could not pick his bottom lip off the floor when I cursed him out "dirty south" style in English. His boys laughed for at least half an hour. Some people just have no style, especially those with low self esteem that need to announce all of their sexual exploitations. Dumb.
SHALENA
 
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Gabriela

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Good question

jrhartley said:
is the age of consent 14 in toronto ? and why did he have other people in the room while he was seeing a patient and why didnt you report him for talking so openly about it.
Click to expand...

I guess by 2006 I had decided that everything about today's Sosua was sick and twisted, so the dentist's behaviour fit in. I only knew I didn't want him touching my daughter. I'd also tried reporting the threat to my uncle before he was murdered to Interpol, and they had blown me off.
 
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PeterInBrat

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They should have a tip line posted for tourists to call in about underaged prostitution with English, French, and German speakers to take down info. One prob though is the slander laws in the DR could open some liability for the tourists reporting them.
 
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bearcat

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I am going to be the bad guy here but I am going to tell you the truth. The conduct of the American that began this discussion is the same as the conduct of many Dominican?s toward women. Yelling out at women is not respectful conduct it is the conduct of an a--hole.
The proper conduct on the writer?s part would have been to walk over and punch the sucker in the mouth. However if he did smack this fool in the mouth his next job would be to punch every Dominican who exhibited the same conduct in the mouth. Guess who taught this conduct to this disrespectful a--hole, ?a Dominican?. In the deep South where I grew up there is a saying, ?before you accuse others, look at yourself.? You need to do that. There is no excuse for the behavior outlined in the preceding post but you did it to yourselves.
There were whores and whorehouses on this island long before the first sex tourist ever can here. There we children being abused by adults before any foreigner came here. Those are facts. It does not make it right because Dominican engaged in the behavior you now find objectionable, it means that these activities were already a problem that you needed to fix before the visitors came.
Your government was and is so desperate for money and too lazy to think and act that it allows tourism without condition. Worse to protect its citizen from the abuses that tourism brings they have a police force that anyone one can buy, ?cheaply?. This is called suicide by tourism. But you cannot blame government because ?YOU? are the government and on Election Day 65% of you stayed at home. If I were in government I would think that you like what we are doing.
The problem is not foreigners it is you. I have long said that Dominican have no manners. I have been in the line at the market and people walk to the front like they own the place and get service. The rules of the road are generally ignored ?anything goes? and now when confronted with your own behavior it becomes offensive. It is offensive and it was offensive when you did it. If you want foreigners to respect your country and its women; then you need to be the first in line to do so. If you do that I would be next in line to slap this a?hole in the mouth; but you need get right yourself.
 
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Africaida

Africaida

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bearcat said:
I am going to be the bad guy here but I am going to tell you the truth. The conduct of the American that began this discussion is the same as the conduct of many Dominican?s toward women. Yelling out at women is not respectful conduct it is the conduct of an a--hole.
The proper conduct on the writer?s part would have been to walk over and punch the sucker in the mouth. However if he did smack this fool in the mouth his next job would be to punch every Dominican who exhibited the same conduct in the mouth. Guess who taught this conduct to this disrespectful a--hole, ?a Dominican?. In the deep South where I grew up there is a saying, ?before you accuse others, look at yourself.? You need to do that. There is no excuse for the behavior outlined in the preceding post but you did it to yourselves.
There were whores and whorehouses on this island long before the first sex tourist ever can here. There we children being abused by adults before any foreigner came here. Those are facts. It does not make it right because Dominican engaged in the behavior you now find objectionable, it means that these activities were already a problem that you needed to fix before the visitors came.
Your government was and is so desperate for money and too lazy to think and act that it allows tourism without condition. Worse to protect its citizen from the abuses that tourism brings they have a police force that anyone one can buy, ?cheaply?. This is called suicide by tourism. But you cannot blame government because ?YOU? are the government and on Election Day 65% of you stayed at home. If I were in government I would think that you like what we are doing.
The problem is not foreigners it is you. I have long said that Dominican have no manners. I have been in the line at the market and people walk to the front like they own the place and get service. The rules of the road are generally ignored ?anything goes? and now when confronted with your own behavior it becomes offensive. It is offensive and it was offensive when you did it. If you want foreigners to respect your country and its women; then you need to be the first in line to do so. If you do that I would be next in line to slap this a?hole in the mouth; but you need get right yourself.
Click to expand...

You weren't joking ;)
 
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jalencastro

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Disturbing

AlterEgo said:
Back in January we were on the beach in Palenque - my husband and I, our daughter, her husband and their 3 yr old son. We're used to seeing the European men with the youngish Dominican women. However this particular day everyone was in the water and I was at the table alone with the grandson when I noticed 2 gringos [white males about 40-50, my thought at the time was that they were American or Canadian from their clothes and bearing] who were simply surrounded by young boys [8-11 I'd say]. Over a dozen of them - no girls. They were lending them their cameras to take photos of each other, playing in the water with them in an 'odd' way, handing them small things that I couldn't identify from where I was. It disturbed me. I stood up and I watched them, and when they saw me watching they moved down the beach. Like the Pied Piper the boys frolicked behind them. I had just about convinced myself that I was being a paranoid old fart when my daughter came out of the water and marched up to the table and asked me if I saw the perverts with the boys. We felt helpless, didn't know what to do, who to call, where to go. Next time I'll be prepared with a phone # to call.

Sorry Anastacio, don't mean to hijack your thread, but Lambada's post dredged up my feelings from that day....

AE
Click to expand...

As a father to a little year and a half daughter this thread has raised my worries and alert....and when i read this post AlterEgo I was dissapoionted to see this happening at playa Palenque, where I like going with my family....:ermm:
sad to see this going on anywhere in the world, let alone DR...
 
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baby bori

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bearcat said:
I am going to be the bad guy here but I am going to tell you the truth. The conduct of the American that began this discussion is the same as the conduct of many Dominican?s toward women. Yelling out at women is not respectful conduct it is the conduct of an a--hole.
The proper conduct on the writer?s part would have been to walk over and punch the sucker in the mouth. However if he did smack this fool in the mouth his next job would be to punch every Dominican who exhibited the same conduct in the mouth. Guess who taught this conduct to this disrespectful a--hole, ?a Dominican?. In the deep South where I grew up there is a saying, ?before you accuse others, look at yourself.? You need to do that. There is no excuse for the behavior outlined in the preceding post but you did it to yourselves.
There were whores and whorehouses on this island long before the first sex tourist ever can here. There we children being abused by adults before any foreigner came here. Those are facts. It does not make it right because Dominican engaged in the behavior you now find objectionable, it means that these activities were already a problem that you needed to fix before the visitors came.
Your government was and is so desperate for money and too lazy to think and act that it allows tourism without condition. Worse to protect its citizen from the abuses that tourism brings they have a police force that anyone one can buy, ?cheaply?. This is called suicide by tourism. But you cannot blame government because ?YOU? are the government and on Election Day 65% of you stayed at home. If I were in government I would think that you like what we are doing.
The problem is not foreigners it is you. I have long said that Dominican have no manners. I have been in the line at the market and people walk to the front like they own the place and get service. The rules of the road are generally ignored ?anything goes? and now when confronted with your own behavior it becomes offensive. It is offensive and it was offensive when you did it. If you want foreigners to respect your country and its women; then you need to be the first in line to do so. If you do that I would be next in line to slap this a?hole in the mouth; but you need get right yourself.
Click to expand...

Bearcat great thread I wholeheartedly agree with you valid commentary here!!!! I grew up with Dominicans in the US in New Jersey and the way they talked to women their vulgar rude comments and they would also mention freely words like " cuero " y " puta ". They also would talk about the whores and whorehouses in the DR with a smile in their face with some sort of pride and bragging about it. Then when I first went to the DR in 2003 to help my childhood friend with his house fixtures and moving in new furniture I walked around the streets in Santiago went to malls, restaurants, supermercados,etc. I would hear very similar degrading and vulgar language towards women and usually the older the guy is the worse off for the most part. Its dominican men the vast majority of patrons in social gathering places like bars, clubs, carwashes, restaurants, malls, stores,etc. acting in a childish immature vulgar way towards dominican women treating them like only piece of meat and if they would get ignored by a women then they in turn would respond by saying something obnoxious like " cuero " " cualquiera " o " estupida " vete para el infierno o vete pal " diablo ". They started this first it was natural part of the accepted social reality in the country.
 
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baby bori

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next time an expat or residing dominican is appalled or bothered by newcomers and foreigners talking to dominican women and trying to score think first that its been going on in the country way way before amongst dominicans before sex tourists ever came to the country. if sex tourism is so bad so vulgar then why hasn't the government acted to close down carwashes loaded with girls, caberetes, discos, bars loades with women willing to go out for a tourist in exchange for money or materialistic things???? if the country wants to enhance its reputation start off with working on a solution towards implementing policy and procedures to decrease this as much as possible!!!!
 
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