Art for Orphanage project

bachata

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Aug 18, 2007
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For the concern... I did contact Cobra...

I am just shifting gears now that Haiti has all and everyone.... very little need for a small fish like me on the border.. as there is much more trade going in.. as there is much more money,,,, and welll.... if you have bill clinton, and anderson cooper and sean penn and katie couric all doing commentary,..there is certainly enough media attention to Haiti now...

So time for a new life.

will check back in if and when i discover it

Ropiendo pistones this is the translation of this phase in Dominican Spanish.

JJ
 

Vacara

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May 5, 2009
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Came up with a new project while visiting Las Terrenas...

unrolling on my blog

follow and comment, please!!


Changing Perspectives

(SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION SHAMELESS......

From your blog;

The Dominicans are making room for them. I watched a group of men, 200 strong. motor bikes parked on the side of the new highway, machetes in hand, cutting through the virgin forest on the side of the road. When I stopped to ask what they were doing... and they said .. well.. nothing.. and I said "Vamos hacer un lakou?" which is the word for a Haitian community,,, and they all smiled and gave me thumbs up... So I gave them $100 for juice and the Obama fist bump to the head guy.


So you see 200 people destroying the forest to make illegal dwelling and all you can do is giving them money for juices?. How about calling the police Annie?.

We are not "making room for them", we are being shoved aside by the Haitians and the people who help them and please stop advocating building an orphanage for Haitian kids on the DR side.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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From your blog;

The Dominicans are making room for them. I watched a group of men, 200 strong. motor bikes parked on the side of the new highway, machetes in hand, cutting through the virgin forest on the side of the road. When I stopped to ask what they were doing... and they said .. well.. nothing.. and I said "Vamos hacer un lakou?" which is the word for a Haitian community,,, and they all smiled and gave me thumbs up... So I gave them $100 for juice and the Obama fist bump to the head guy.


So you see 200 people destroying the forest to make illegal dwelling and all you can do is giving them money for juices?. How about calling the police Annie?.

We are not "making room for them", we are being shoved aside by the Haitians and the people who help them and please stop advocating building an orphanage for Haitian kids on the DR side.


Well, Vacara. There are hardly ANY Dominicans who own land up there anymore. It is mostly Europeans. Of 30,000 residents, 6,000 can vote.

And these were indeed Dominicans who were doing the cutting. Not a few Dominicans but an organized LARGE GROUP of locals. Whether they were making a village for the Haitians or for themselves, it did not matter to me. As far as I was concerned they were simply taking custody of unused land that is not inside a national park.

To my mind, the people who were cutting into the land to make lodging for themselves were what I considered to be the "home team".. Certainly more so than the "investors" who have filled in the swamp with caliche to make "land".

Why call the police? To enforce the rights of whom? an absentee landlord? the State? The land was not fenced. Why would this be my business?

What I did support was people out in the hot sun, doing what was needed to provide for themselves... self reliance... which I applaud.

I do not know, Vacara, I used to live in Heights. And I was born in NYC. Did I get pushed out by invading Dominicans?

You do not get to own any land that you cannot control. The land is going to be here long after you and I and anyone who remembers our names are dust particles.

You want to protect "your" land? Where is it, exactly, that you live?

There is a French Canadian who owns vast portions of Las Terrenas. He has been there for over twenty years,,,.,Occassionally he goes off his head and waves around his title papers to Come Pan... where thousands of Dominicans live in wooden shacks.. But he has the title papers.
Does he own it? The people who live in those shacks cannot sell them.. but I doubt that he could, either.

If you do not collect the Haitian children who are being trafficked into the DR with the aim of repatriating them, you will have them in your streets, in your barrios, in your schools. They will simply be more children without papers and without the rights to higher education. Their children will be a continuing problem as well...

If... on the other hand.. you have a destination collection point .. where they are actually designated as "refugee" children .. distinctly Haitian.. put under the custody of the Episcopal Church.. of which the Haitian Diocese operates out of NYC, they become NOT a burden on your country but a burden on the great world. They can be educated and trained with the goal of returning them to Haiti.

That was my intention behind my suggestion.
 

bob saunders

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Perhaps I'm wrong but you seem to be advocating illegal squating, and then on top of that saying that if the owner can't maintain control it's not really theirs. This would mean them with the biggest and most guns would own/control the land- kind of like the cattle ranches in the Wild West. Might means right- coming from a quaker?
 
Sep 20, 2003
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You do not get to own any land that you cannot control. The land is going to be here long after you and I and anyone who remembers our names are dust particles.

You want to protect "your" land? Where is it, exactly, that you live?

You're kidding, right? Is this some sort of Zimbabwe Economics 101? It worked so well there, let's try it here? This is about for private property and respect for law and order. Aiding and abetting this kind of behavior will only lead to economic and enviromental ruin.
 
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Vacara

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You're kidding, right? Is this some sort of Zimbabwe Economics 101? It worked so well there, let's try it here? This is about for private property and respect for law and order. Aiding and abetting this kind of behavior will only lead to economic and environmental ruin.

That was exactly my point.
 
Sep 20, 2003
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I shall lead them on horseback...

Perhaps I'm wrong but you seem to be advocating illegal squating, and then on top of that saying that if the owner can't maintain control it's not really theirs. This would mean them with the biggest and most guns would own/control the land- kind of like the cattle ranches in the Wild West. Might means right- coming from a quaker?

Sounds like a return to the Caudillo Era. Great.
 

RonS

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Oct 18, 2004
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Although it maybe difficult and seem counterintuitive to see land sit idle that could otherwise be used to provide shelter for the homeless or to grow food for those who are hungry, whether Haitian or Dominican, a society must nonetheless insist on adherence to the rule of law. It is essential, imo, that the sanctity of contract and property rights be respected. In whatever way 'investors' or absentee owners acquired title to thier property, we should insist that thier title be respected [unless, of course title was acquired by fraud or some other illegality]. If the state determines the land is necessary for a public use and that that use supercedes the private individual right, then there are legal methods by which the land can be acquired for that purpose. It may be unfortunate that individuals have chosen to buy up the land and horde it as some kind of trophy, or in hopes of land values escallating out of the reach of ordinary hard working people, but, that is the right of the investor/buyer, and that right should be respected.

Just one more thing to the comment: "We are not "making room for them", we are being shoved aside by the Haitians and the people who help them and please stop advocating building an orphanage for Haitian kids on the DR side."

I was happily amazed at the outpouring of caring and concern the Dominican people showed toward the people of Haiti following the devastating earthquake on January 12th. I'm sure that you will recall that even Dominicans without much contributed what they could, and everyone in the DR supported the government's effort to assist. That moment of reconciliation between Dominicans and Haitians should not be squandered and left on the trash heap of history! I sympathize that some feel that attention is being paid to Haiti to the exclusion of the DR, and that Dominican's are being 'shoved aside' rather than that Dominicans are 'making room' for Haitians. But, there is plenty of room for both and I know that everyone knows that there is no way Dominicans can be 'shoved aside'. The rebuilding of Haiti can be a huge boost to the Dominican Republic, and the people of the DR have much to contribute.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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I do not think that a long discussion on land reform or private property rights is the point here...

What is rather remarkable is that the DR has NOT called on the UN to organize a project to collect and care for the underage Haitian children who are here and continue to arrive.

There is certainly a need for outside intervention here and there are certainly international organizations that are mandated and equipped to handle this... but they would have to be ASKed by the DR authorities.. (unless it was simply a church.. doing the sort of things that churchs do)
 
Sep 20, 2003
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The world turned upside down...

I do not think that a long discussion on land reform or private property rights is the point here...

What is rather remarkable is that the DR has NOT called on the UN to organize a project to collect and care for the underage Haitian children who are here and continue to arrive.

There is certainly a need for outside intervention here and there are certainly international organizations that are mandated and equipped to handle this... but they would have to be ASKed by the DR authorities.. (unless it was simply a church.. doing the sort of things that churchs do)

DOOOOOOODGE the issue...

What's remarkable here is that you openly rationalize, attempt to justify, and reward people for stealing the property of others.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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There are so many mistakes & misunderstandings in this Mountainannie thread & its 1st post, that I don't know where to start... I guess I'll just let it go, once again it is just Mountainannie disinformation...
 

mountainannie

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i have no knowledge of to whom the property in question "belongs"...

nor indeed was the use of the land or who was doing what to it the issue I was addressing. It may be the point that some of you wish to argue with me but since my opinons on this have no bearing on the laws or practices here in the DR, they are of no consequence.

THE ISSUE that I was addressing was the more than one million Haitians that are in this country now and the increasing number of Haitians that are coming into this country and what is to be done with them so that they do not become a burden to this nation, which already has more poor than it can adequately care for.


In Haiti, the majority of the land.. some estimate 70% of it, belongs to the State. Under current Haitian law, it is possible for a landless peasant to obtain permission to "squat" or use or put into production for his own use or whatever one wishes to call it... but the legal process takes 7 years.

However.. If there were some sort of "holding area" for the Haitians here.. under international supervision.. then this same international organization could act as intermediary with the Haitian state to obtain land for said "refugees" and they could be resettled IN HAITI.. once, perhaps, they had been prepared a bit and given some skills.

Is it not in the interests of the people of the Dominican Republic to have the incoming Haitians retain their Haitian identities and make plans to return and help rebuild their home land?

Or are you ok with the status quo? Which is get a Haitian passport, pay 3000 pesos to the bus driver at Dajabon and get off the bus in Santiago.
 

bachata

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Aug 18, 2007
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Anny, I think nobody replied your post because no one wants to hurt your good feeling.

JJ
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Anny, I think nobody replied your post because no one wants to hurt your good feeling.

JJ

Aw,JJ, that is a nice thought-- that you all care about my feelings! Anyway, this project was just a dream/fantasy that I had...... I know that reality does not work like this and that Haiti will be mired in the mud for years and years and the DR will be flooded with Haitians and Dominicans will complain and few will do anything except hold conferences and issue press reports.

But I appreciate the thought that no one wants to wake me up from my dreamings!