At least I have a clue ... but looking for feedback

rfp · Jul 5, 2010

Hello,

I am a newcomer to the DR ... sort of. My mom is Dominican and has lived in Santo Domingo since she retired in 2002. I lived here for a year in 2003 and was fortunate enough to buy an apartment during the Hippo Baninter crisis. It is now paid for and is located in La Julia. It is not luxurious but middle class, probably a step or two down from our house in Florida. Here is our situation, we have a new baby and my wife is looking at having to go to work leaving our baby in day care. I have income from an investment here in the states that gives me 1200 a month. I also have a standing job offer in Santo Domingo at 45 k pesos. I have enough money to buy a car furniture etc and get set up....

When I talk to my cousins here they say that things would be tight financially living mortgage free on that type of income. On our visits I think that we could get by on that ... less of a house than in florida but with domestic help making up for that. A bit of a trade off....

I think we could get by on that type of income ... what are your thoughts? We are not running from anything back home, its just the opportunity to simplify a bit and have her be able to stay at home for a few years with our baby. We both speak Spanish and have visited the DR frequently. Any suggestions or points of view would be welcome. The wealthy side of the family says it will be tight, some of the poorer cousins who live in La Vega say that we could live well. I am more American than Dominican so thoughts from foreigners ( which I basically am) would be welcome.

Ken · Jul 5, 2010

Your cousins are right.

Yes, you could live on that, many Dominicans live on less, but would that be the lifestyle that you would be satisfied with? Your friends and cousins with more disposable income would be able to do things that you could not afford.

My expectation is that by the end of a year you and your wife will regret having made the move.

pelaut · Jul 5, 2010

45K pesos plust your wife's job plus $1200?
A breeze for retired folks that already saw what they needed to see in life and enjoy their home life and home cooking more than going around, dining out, etc.
A young couple with a baby? It'll be no struggle.
But with more and older kids and the private education expenses entailed, more of a struggle.
Be prepared for initial capital outlays the first year or two as you invest in successively larger batteries, voltage regulators, inverters, burglar alarms, etc., as you will surely undersize all that at first.

Hillbilly · Jul 5, 2010

I would come down and do a serious round of interviews. Living "rent free" doesn't mean "living for free" ...you will still have to pay water, lights, telephones, TV Cable (at least two systems),maintain the place, maintain the vehicle (do bring in an American made vehicle you have had for a year and less than 5 years old) and pay for car insurance, health insurance.

That said, you do have a lot of income according to local standards. 37K from the states + 45K (minus taxes)+ wife's income? Means close to 100K pesos...you should be able to live on that. Modestly.

Santo Domingo is a pretty expensive city. It costs a lot to go anywhere or do anything. Of course with family and friends already established you are less pressured to go out an club or stuff....you do 'family' related things.

So, after all of that, come down and talk seriously to a lot of people, friend, family, potential employer (For example, that job sucks if it takes you two hours to get there every morning and another two hours to get back.)

Just go slow on something as important as this. Get all the ducks in line.

HB

Ken · Jul 5, 2010

pelaut and Hillbilly, am I missing something? You both factored in the income from the wife's job, but I read he is thinking of making the move so that the wife can stay home with the child for a few years and not go to work.

wuarhat · Jul 5, 2010

rfp said:
Hello,

I am a newcomer to the DR ... sort of. My mom is Dominican and has lived in Santo Domingo since she retired in 2002. I lived here for a year in 2003 and was fortunate enough to buy an apartment during the Hippo Baninter crisis. It is now paid for and is located in La Julia. It is not luxurious but middle class, probably a step or two down from our house in Florida. Here is our situation, we have a new baby and my wife is looking at having to go to work leaving our baby in day care. I have income from an investment here in the states that gives me 1200 a month. I also have a standing job offer in Santo Domingo at 45 k pesos. I have enough money to buy a car furniture etc and get set up....

When I talk to my cousins here they say that things would be tight financially living mortgage free on that type of income. On our visits I think that we could get by on that ... less of a house than in florida but with domestic help making up for that. A bit of a trade off....

I think we could get by on that type of income ... what are your thoughts? We are not running from anything back home, its just the opportunity to simplify a bit and have her be able to stay at home for a few years with our baby. We both speak Spanish and have visited the DR frequently. Any suggestions or points of view would be welcome. The wealthy side of the family says it will be tight, some of the poorer cousins who live in La Vega say that we could live well. I am more American than Dominican so thoughts from foreigners ( which I basically am) would be welcome.

If the 1200 a month is dollars and not pesos and the 45 k pesos is monthly and not annually you could definitely get by very nicely. If the 1200 is dollars and the 45 k is annually you probably could get by on the 1200 and telling the prospective employer that you can use your time more productively looking for a real job. If the 1200 is pesos and the 45 k is annual you will have a very hard time getting by.

mountainannie · Jul 5, 2010

i may not be following correctly-- you have a job offer at 45k pesos PLUS you have US $1200 -- is that right? so that would mean more like $90,000 pesos a month?

I would think that the main issue would be living with your mother in law and how your wife will be with that.....

Since $90,000 pesos a month is a very solid upper middle class income here.

cobraboy · Jul 5, 2010

That's around US$2500 a month. Should be doable but your lifestyle in SD will be a lot more modest than other places.

CFA123 · Jul 5, 2010

RFP,
It should be doable.

You have a few things going for you - you have family nearby for support if you move here & you yourself have a year living here, so you know what to expect. So, you wouldn't be jumping willy nilly into a new country/culture like some expats do. The worst train wrecks are those who seem to have zero knowledge of the country and minimal funds to survive.

I think you'd find your family could live 'well enough' on US$2500 a month with no rent to pay. Would you be maintain a U.S. lifestyle, likely not... but then most of us don't move here with that intention. We want some of the luxuries but learn we don't really need them all.

What would concern me with a young family, is
1) whether in your field of work there's potential to grow your financial reserves / safety net over time in Dominican Republic. That could be difficult, though not impossible. Having the possibility of your wife re-entering the workforce here eventually 'could' significantly improve your finances. I suspect from the way you have written your post, that some semblance of financial security is important to you.
2) unexpected medical expenses (even just 'the usual stuff') that arises with a newborn & young family

Trying to put myself in your shoes, I think it's worth the risk and adventure to give it a try... IF you believe that you could set aside in advance enough funds to return to the U.S. and resume your life/re-enter the workforce there should the need/desire arise for whatever reason.

Best of luck whichever way you decide.

Robert · Jul 5, 2010

No rent and US2,500 monthly, you will live just fine. Many, many middle-class families do it on less than that. Look through the forum at the many posts on living costs here and do the numbers.

La Julia is a nice neighborhood and close to everything.

The main question is can you adapt to living here? Visiting is very different to living and dealing with the day to day stuff. Knowing Spanish will make your life a lot easier and allow you to cut through lots of the BS, that other "foreigners" have to deal with. Plus you have family here, which can make a huge difference.

The other part as pointed out by CFA123 is being able to go back if needed.
I have seen many people burn their bridges back home and have found it almost impossible financially to go back. It's another thing to add to your "food for thought" list

Chip · Jul 5, 2010

Me and my wife live here in Santiago with our three daughters on less than half that easily.

You shouldn't have a problem - just avoid the expensive restaurants and the JW blue. Good luck.

CFA123 · Jul 5, 2010

Chip, living on less than half $2500 "easily" may be a stretch. Many (perhaps even yourself) would consider what you're doing close to subsistence level. The way you've described it, a slight slip in funds spent would eliminate your extravagances of a daily beer, kids weekly movie, and US$2.50/person dinner out on the town - and seemingly quickly threaten covering the basics of buying platanos & yucca for dinner. However, it should give rfp some clue as he'd have an extra US$1400+/- monthly.

Chip said:
..I calculate we are living off of around US1100 a month. This includes internet, Vonage phone and cable. I don't have a car or house payment either.
...We typically eat a standard Dominican lunch 4-5 times a week with tacos or spaghetti rounding it out. For dinner it's standard Dominican fare (platano, yucca) 3 times a week with sandwhiches and a homemade pizza once a week for the balance.

We also take the girls to see a movie once a week and weekly see the inlaws. Also, at least twice a week we eat out and that usually costs around US10 a pop or even less and is usually rice and beans or chicken and fries.

My only real luxuries are one beer a day and a sip of rum and my xbox360.

RacerX · Jul 5, 2010

I think the $1200 income form investment should be used for your safety margin. Your job offer at 45K is about 5 times what the average salary is in this country. Were you to couple that with your investment income, you re making 9x what the average income is. Surely you can live on that.

But Like I said I d separate funds and use the $1200 as a emergency fund or planning money. Or even to procure your car here or send it from America.
I m not sure what rents are in SD, but I d loathe living with your wife's family only because you are prone to being considered the ATM or cash cow for those who embolden themselves. At least in your own place when they ask you can smirk at then and walk into the next room.

I pay $10Kpesos for a place in Torres Atlantico in Santiago. Its nice to me, young building, wall mounted AC units in each room. No generator because they have a penthouse on the roof. Got a big gate and about 2 more doors before you get into the place. So I think you can do it. You d still have to budget though but 45K is the stable middle class in this country. So I say get your own place in a well to do area and not with the inlaws.

Plus, you d really like to unwind when you come back to your job in the evening and sometimes all them smiling happy people can ruin that(at least for me) in the 1st hour.

So what job is this you got offered? Insurance?

mountainannie · Jul 5, 2010

I have had to reread the OP since I (and others) seem to be incapable of reading and comprehension... I thought his mother was IN the apartment that he owned but it does not seem like that. So ok -- no mother in law to live with.

The best thing is child care that is available here. Every ex pat woman that I have spoken with says that this is the MAJOR luxury and advantage of living here -- to have help with the house and kids -- even 24 7 if you want it.. but at least two days a week.

Plus you do seem to be "pegado" in that you have a good job waiting -- which means that it would probably turn into a better job down the road.

You will be looking at more expenses for education down the road-

but with the security that you have and a paid for apartment,,

I would

LEAP!!!

AlterEgo · Jul 5, 2010

He never said he'd be living with his wife's family - he said he owns an apartment in Santo Domingo that's paid in full. He never said his wife will be working in SD - the purpose of moving there is so she doesn't have to work, and can be home with the baby. So there is no additional income above his and his investment money.

It's so hard to advise the OP because we don't know him or his lifestyle. The fact that his cousins think $1200/US plus $45,000/RD isn't enough tells me that they know his lifestyle and they're worried he'll be stretching it. Considering the very real possibility that they stay and have more kids, it will only be stretched more when they're school age.

OP, I'd listen to my family if I were you - they live there and they know you.

AE

Ken · Jul 5, 2010

In your post you said you were more American than Dominican.

Ask yourself, which group of cousins do you expect to live like. One group doubts you can manage on your expected income, the other says you will do well. Which group do you expect to live like?

Your desire to enable your wife to stay home and raise the children is admirable. Children do better when they spend their early, most formative years, with parents. The question is, how important is this to you and your wife? If it is necessary, in order to achieve your purpose for moving, to live like your cousins in La Vega, will you and your wife be happy to do so for the sake of the child?

AnnaC · Jul 5, 2010

AlterEgo said:
He never said he'd be living with his wife's family - he said he owns an apartment in Santo Domingo that's paid in full. He never said his wife will be working in SD - the purpose of moving there is so she doesn't have to work, and can be home with the baby. So there is no additional income above his and his investment money.

AE

That's exactly what he is saying. The only thing that isn't 100% clear is whether 45,000/RD is yearly or monthly.

Life should be an adventure and the time to do that is when you're young. If he doesn't sell his home in the US they can always return home when the child is old enough to go to school and they will be richer for the experience.

Hey for all we know the relatives are figuring it's not enough to support all 50 of them :laugh: Ok just kidding there.

AlterEgo · Jul 5, 2010

I wanted to add [too late to edit the above] that I am American and my husband is Dominican, but he has lived in the US since 1976 so he's very Americanized like the OP. When we talked to his brothers about our moving to SD, both of his brothers told us that we will spend about $3,000 a month to live there 'nicely'. They are both professionals with MBA degrees, one is also a CPA, so they have good jobs - but neither lives what I would consider the high life. Both of their wives have college degrees and good professional jobs too. One has a condo in El Million, the other a house in SW SD.

They also know it's just the two of us, our children are settled in NJ and will stay there, and that we don't throw money around.

Personally, I'd rather expect to spend $3000US a month and be pleasantly surprised when it was actually $2000-2500 than vice-versa.

AE

AnnaC · Jul 5, 2010

rfp said:
Hello,

I have income from an investment here in the states that gives me 1200 a month. I also have a standing job offer in Santo Domingo at 45 k pesos. I have enough money to buy a car furniture etc and get set up....

When I talk to my cousins here they say that things would be tight financially living mortgage free on that type of income.

.

Couple of things we need to clear up

1.is the 45,000 pesos a month or year?

2.when you say you talk to your cousins HERE does HERE mean the USA or the DR?

Chip · Jul 5, 2010

AnnaC said:
Couple of things we need to clear up

1.is the 45,000 pesos a month or year?

2.when you say you talk to your cousins HERE does HERE mean the USA or the DR?

I'm fairly certain that it's 45k monthly after all 45k a year is what my housekeeper made.

At any rate if you don't have a house payment and can't live comfortably as a family with kids here in the DR on RD89k a month I'd say you're doing something wrong. Heck, I even know people back in the States living on that and paying rent.

At least I have a clue ... but looking for feedback

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