Who said this, Castro or Fernandez?

It was Feranndez.....he was playing tohis audience of Cuban uiniversity people...

Like it or not the guy knows how to talk..

HB

that is stupid, Leonel is one of the best president in L.A.

Let's just hope Leonel is just doing the usual politician speak and that his words mean nothing, otherwise we'll be in for trouble.

Conchman said:

from DR1 news today, "Leonel in Cuba"

"He mentioned that the current financial crisis demonstrates the economic model of capitalism is on the way to extinction. He said the next revolution needs to be one capable of producing a model based on sustainable development and a knowledged-based society. He says the advances in renewable energy are incubating the coming revolution"

bold underline is mine.

It sounds like Fernandez said this or was it Castro???. Interesting. Green energy will bring in the red revolution then? What is a 'knowledge-based' society? Where the people with 'knowledge' rule the 'stupid people?' Sounds like elitist drivel to me.

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Leonel has contanstly bashed what he has called "capitalismo de casino", which is something like far right capitalism without regulations and full of speculations. I'd like to read his quote in Spanish.

What many people don't know is that Leonel's mother has been a life long socialist. His childhood involved praises and pictures of Fidel Castro, et al in his home.

But, it makes sense most people don't know this, since you have to be close to him (or his family) to know this type of information.

Oh my Leonel a closet socialist.:laugh:

Conchman said:

from DR1 news today, "Leonel in Cuba"

"He mentioned that the current financial crisis demonstrates the economic model of capitalism is on the way to extinction. He said the next revolution needs to be one capable of producing a model based on sustainable development and a knowledged-based society. He says the advances in renewable energy are incubating the coming revolution"

bold underline is mine.

It sounds like Fernandez said this or was it Castro???. Interesting. Green energy will bring in the red revolution then? What is a 'knowledge-based' society? Where the people with 'knowledge' rule the 'stupid people?' Sounds like elitist drivel to me.

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The quote is not exactly correct. The translation of what he said is " There is a model of Capitalism that is in a phase of extinction". He was referring to the present economic crisis that the world is experiencing. That particular model of capitalism that had many causes such as deregulation, sub-prime lending, over-leveraging, financial complexities etc.

Basically there is no doubt that Leonel believes in the capitalist system but perhaps one that is more regulated and equitable.

Dominican President Leonel Fernandez Delivers Keynote Speech in Havana
On the video he says quote at 1:25

i don't see whats controversial about his speech. he didn't say anything other politicians haven't said before.

the knowledge based society is opposed to the industrial society based on the manual labor of untrained simple workers. this model of society that emerged with the industrial revolution is indeed on the way to extinction, since technology made manual labor dispensable. there is not enough demand for manual labor to base a countries welfare on it. the knowledge based society relies on highly training and specializing it's population. that is hardly a crime, and not socialism, a model of society which is allready extinct (even in cuba), and which also relies on manual labor. the knowledge based society wants to avoid being trapped in the downward spiral of the wages for manual labor.
on the other hand, politicians mostly use the term as an empty phrase to distract from their lack of vision for and commitment to the future.

it is also painfully clear that our current model of capitalism is not sustainable, hence the worldwide economic crisis. governments spend billions on rescue packages and are now going to cut social spending. people will not be happy about that, and social uproar might follow. i think there is not a government in the world that doesn't have this scenario mapped out somewhere. he statet the obvious. what he did not was say that, should this happen in the d.r., he would call for the red revolution instead of having pn and guardia shoot at protestors.

Mariot said:

i don't see whats controversial about his speech. he didn't say anything other politicians haven't said before.

the knowledge based society is opposed to the industrial society based on the manual labor of untrained simple workers. this model of society that emerged with the industrial revolution is indeed on the way to extinction, since technology made manual labor dispensable. there is not enough demand for manual labor to base a countries welfare on it. the knowledge based society relies on highly training and specializing it's population. that is hardly a crime, and not socialism, a model of society which is allready extinct (even in cuba), and which also relies on manual labor. the knowledge based society wants to avoid being trapped in the downward spiral of the wages for manual labor. on the other hand, politicians mostly use the term as an empty phrase to distract from their lack of vision for and commitment to the future.

it is also painfully clear that our current model of capitalism is not sustainable, hence the worldwide economic crisis. governments spend billions on rescue packages and are now going to cut social spending. people will not be happy about that, and social uproar might follow. i think there is not a government in the world that doesn't have this scenario mapped out somewhere. he statet the obvious. what he did not was say that, should this happen in the d.r., he would call for the red revolution instead of having pn and guardia shoot at protestors.

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Leonel sometimes says things that make him sound like the smartest guy in the room. Then when you look at his government's lack of dedication to public education we are left with a disconnect between what's being said and what's being accomplished. Too many of the general Dominican population are incapable of keeping up in the information age because the emphasis on a full day of education during the primary schooling years just isn't there when kids are most able to absorb knowledge. Creating a sense of educational accomplishment in preadolescent children is one of the best ways to keep them from becoming parents as soon as they reach puberty. Get them interacting on an intellectual level and the physical and social interactions lose importance (or more accurately fall into proper perspective). Free Public Libraries with free internet and wifi should be available to all. The best way I know to fight illiteracy and intellectual inferiority is to practice reading and writing and 'rithmetic....for 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week.

This guy has some lofty ideals but he's going to need some lofty investment in Public Education to back them up if he's looking toward a legacy of credibility. His "growth friendly" approach to DR's prime GDP sectors and their steady growth under his leadership shows that he is competent. It's now time to reinvest some of the profits in the nation's greatest natural resource.

i didn't say i thought he was going to apply any of the things he said in domestic politics. what he said was what all politicians say when they want to give the impression of having a vision for the future. i just didn't understand why what he said would make him a socialist. there are enough legit reasons to bash leonel, so why resort to calling him something he clearly is not.

Mariot said:

i didn't say i thought he was going to apply any of the things he said in domestic politics. what he said was what all politicians say when they want to give the impression of having a vision for the future. i just didn't understand why what he said would make him a socialist. there are enough legit reasons to bash leonel, so why resort to calling him something he clearly is not.

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Good point.

Leonel is no Socialist. I guess any time a leader points out a flaw in the application of Capitalist principles to an audience of Communists it's seen by some as pandering to the left. I think he may have been searching for some level of mediation and common ground. This guy is good at what he does.

NALs said:

What many people don't know is that Leonel's mother has been a life long socialist. His childhood involved praises and pictures of Fidel Castro, et al in his home.

But, it makes sense most people don't know this, since you have to be close to him (or his family) to know this type of information.

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Let's assume that what you are saying is true. What does not make sense then, is that Leoner grew and was educated in the United State. He is a product of US education. I do not know, if many of you know it. He is not an idiot and of course he was talking to the audience as any other intelligent politician would do.

I agree with Mariot and Greybeard. Leonel is no socialist, otherwise he would not be supporting so many capitalist enterprises.

What he said to a Cuban audience was by no means anything radical, or even new for that matter. The idea that true and unfettered capitalism is fading fast isn't a revolutionary concept. It has been around since FDR bailed out the US economy with huge government programs during the depression.

State capitalism has been practiced in every first world country, and it is often, if not openly, embraced by even the most ardent "free enterprise" enthusiasts, who wouldn't be able to survive without its practice.

Leonel simply picked a subject that would be applauded in Cuba, while obviously placating his backers in the US, where the concept of state capitalism has been actively and enthusiastically being applied for quite some time.

Fernandez seems to be a master of stating the old and obvious and making it sound like something new and original, without ****ing anyone off. He is simply another true politician.

pkaide1 said:

Let's assume that what you are saying is true. What does not make sense then, is that Leoner grew and was educated in the United State. He is a product of US education. I do not know, if many of you know it. He is not an idiot and of course he was talking to the audience as any other intelligent politician would do.

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as far as i recall it, he recieved his university education in the dominican republic. but that is besides the point. he must have had more radical, left leaning views, since back when he joined the pld it was a leftist party. over time however, he has become a very smart and pragmatic politician who knows how to manipulate the dominican political system to his advantage. he has also become rich in the process, and his politics are a mixture of neoliberal trickle down economics and traditional dominican patron-client relations, sprinkled with international mediation that will one day help him secure a prestigious post somewhere at an international organization. that is pretty far from a socialist in my book (unless of course you go the glenn beck route and use socialist as a synonym for every politician that is not to your liking). the guy is not even a populist. he is a technocrat that disregards what his electorate thinks of him until it is time to buy votes again. i think the only way he compares with castro is that he too is a politician that was born in a country way too small and insignificant for his ambitions and abilities as a leader.

Mariot said:

as far as i recall it, he recieved his university education in the dominican republic. but that is besides the point. he must have had more radical, left leaning views, since back when he joined the pld it was a leftist party. over time however, he has become a very smart and pragmatic politician who knows how to manipulate the dominican political system to his advantage. he has also become rich in the process, and his politics are a mixture of neoliberal trickle down economics and traditional dominican patron-client relations, sprinkled with international mediation that will one day help him secure a prestigious post somewhere at an international organization. that is pretty far from a socialist in my book (unless of course you go the glenn beck route and use socialist as a synonym for every politician that is not to your liking). the guy is not even a populist. he is a technocrat that disregards what his electorate thinks of him until it is time to buy votes again. i think the only way he compares with castro is that he too is a politician that was born in a country way too small and insignificant for his ambitions and abilities as a leader.

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Are you talking about Bill Clinton or Leonel Fernandez. But that is beside the point. He grew up in New York city and primary and high school was in New York city.

NALs said:

What many people don't know is that Leonel's mother has been a life long socialist. His childhood involved praises and pictures of Fidel Castro, et al in his home.

But, it makes sense most people don't know this, since you have to be close to him (or his family) to know this type of information.

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Yeah, Nals.

I hear he was actually born in Kenya too.

RHM

I get the impression Leonel will say anything to anybody to feather his nest and get a juicy UN job.