Any StrawBale houses in the DR?

NO.

YOu do not know much about the tropics, do you?

HB

Your ignorance of things "Caribbean" seems to be boundless. In the Caribbean area, with few housing requirements, the native inhabitants had worked out living quarters that were more than adaquate for their needs centuries before the Europeans arrived.

Their "boh?os" were constructed of small saplings with a very thermal-efficient roof of palm leaves or "yagua" (the palm seed pod covering).

Late--and probably African influenced--examples include the "tejeman?" style of twigs either lattices or intertwined and covered by a two-sided palm leaf roof with long overhangs (in one style) or the same construction but with mud dobbing 'stucco' siding for more insulation...there are examples of both to be seen in the Dominican countryside to this day.

However, for housing the victims of the Haitian earthquake, I cannot see any economic, social or developmental benefits to foistering primative housing on them too!

Especially when there are so many much better options. And speed is not a question.

Unfortunately there are serious issues of infrastructure in Haiti, that will take several years to get somewhat straightened out: sewers and water are just two of them.

And to answer one of your initial inane questions: There are no hard grains harvested in the Caribbean or any other tropical countries. Kenya and the other HIGHLAND areas of Africa have a different climate altogether...

What you saw in Senegal was probably a relative of what I described above...as to what you saw in Kenya and Tanzania, can you even imagine the riots in Haiti if the world community were to suggest that they move out of their tents and into straw-bale housing??? Young fellow, you have no idea!!

HB

Rafikius
You may have good intentions in mind but please listen to the wise professor, Hillbilly. Don't let his name fool you. He has tons of valuable information for you on the DR if you are wise enough to pay attention to him.

I'm not a great fan of the concrete buildings, either, but there are two little details that make them important:

1. Criminals

2. Hurricanes

But Raf, I appreciate your willingness to think outside the box and seek out new and different options that might work in Haiti and the DR.

Locally found building materials is a good option, but remember that concrete is made out of limestone, rocks, and sand. And one thing the DR has lots of is limestone, rocks, and sand.

Dominicans like cinderblock. About 40 years ago, the Peace Corps tried to introduce adobe construction in the countryside and it was a complete failure. The locals had one look at the stuff and thought "mud huts."

It may be possible to develop some technology using baggasse and some resin as a building material, but cinderblock is tried and true, low tech, relatively cheap and there is an existing labor force that can do the construction. The DR is also not as third world as say, Haiti. I think the next construction technologies to emerge will be ICF and pre-cast concrete, which is already being used in industrial constructions.

Keep in mind also that many of the NGOs wanting to do good for Haiti have next to zero common sense when it comes to tropical construction. I've seen designs for 100 square ft t-shelters that cost a "mere" $4000 and are basically glorified tents. Many of the designs rely on plywood for sheating, which all has to be imported, taxed, marked up and then cut (ideally) with powertools. Some of the designs even have large glass windows.

Sounds like you've done some traveling, which is all fine and well, but you will have to have a very dramatic change in your attitude if you want to work in development. Your comment refering to cinderblock housing as "cells" was pretty condescending and then tossing in a poke at white flour has made it clear that you really don't care what Dominicans or Haitians actually want. You're trying to impose your own arbitrary ideals and it's insulting. When you come into a country with a chip on your shoulder(which you seem to be making an effort to do), no one is going to want to listen you, no matter how good your ideas are.

Jambo,
Na wewe sema jino yaavatari yako ni "Rafiki"?
Karibisho !

You mean 'Makuti' in E Africa. Here they seem to use "Cana" roofing but, like in Africa this would be considered inferior to corrugated iron, and they don't get hurricanes in E Africa.
The cana is not woven into mats then placed as is makuti but is laid in a type of cross-pattern across slats.
I have seen some excellent cana roofing here, done with great care, but this is usually for the look or on an otherwise fancy gringo house.

Hillbilly said:

Your ignorance of things "Caribbean" seems to be boundless.

Click to expand...

PeterInBrat said:

You're trying to impose your own arbitrary ideals and it's insulting. When you come into a country with a chip on your shoulder(which you seem to be making an effort to do), no one is going to want to listen you, no matter how good your ideas are.

Click to expand...

You will find that we don't always suffer fools gladly on this site. And there have been too many idealistic folks willing to dive right in and show everyone in the developing world how to make things better without any idea of the reality of those who live here.

If you want to make a positive contribution (which I sense that you do), do lots of research and ask lots of questions. I have asked a few questions on here and learned quite a bit. There is an immeasurable wealth of knowledge and experience on this board.

Now if you really want to make a great contribution to Dominican life and the environment, find us a way feasible way to recycle styrofoam food containers, plastic bags, and Brugal rum bottles. (Key word there was feasible.)

puryear270 said:

I'm not a great fan of the concrete buildings, either, but there are two little details that make them important:

1. Criminals

2. Hurricanes

Locally found building materials is a good option, but remember that concrete is made out of limestone, rocks, and sand. And one thing the DR has lots of is limestone, rocks, and sand.

Click to expand...

Other factors: limited lumber, termites/ants, mold, rot, fire, thermal mass, cost, can be built without power tools, paint optional...

A note to PeterinBrat:
Peace Corps built several schools (supposed to be ten but I do not know how many were actually built) using the Cinvaram methodology in 1963-64.

While cinderblocks would have been cheaper as far as time and effort, the Cinvaram process called for a lot of community support and participation. The blocks themselves are incredible things. The school I built (helped build) is still standing and still giving classes. The structure is solid. The roof was/is Asbestos-cement since it was cheaper per mt2 vs galvanized tin...

The leftover bricks we had were used by neighbors as stepping stones for their walkways and THEY are still there, 47 years later.

Your other comments are right on!


HB

I was refering to a project in the late 60s early 70s. My dad was doing work up in the Mao area for PC and I remember him making mud bricks. But he said that anything clay/mud was considered camposino. There was still some wattle/daub method around that used cow manure as one of the ingredients so mud was not far off. Another project he worked on was making cinderblocks, which is really a pretty cheap system, just not as cheap as adobe bricks.

My interest is still on improving rural outhouse systems, esp for schools. That SOIL project seems great. I'm hoping the cholera issue will have some positive long term impacts on sanitation for the entire island. It's a tragedy that it's taking something like this to get basic sanitation as a priority.

When I used to be a facility manager, I had to beg for money for new roofs and septic while they were fund-raising for new buildings. New buildings are "sexy". A new leach field? Not so much.


So Cinvaram is a rammed earth tech?

Yup! 8 dirt;1 sand;1 cement. Mix, dampen, place into mold, operate the loooong lever, compress, remove, place on flat surface, moisten for 28 days, use. with morter made of same stuff...

Amazing.

HB

Hmm. Wonder if that would work for drywells. It wouldn't have to be very structural and it could cure underground. If you packed the two hollows of wooden pallets, you could make a quick 4ft cube for a drywell or latrine ditch. Set the pallets in the ground then tamp the mix into it. If you could make standard units the size of cord wood, you could also make a cylindical stacked arch.

To the OP: your thread has been hijacked for a better cause...

If I understand you, you would use this type of brick to line the drywells? Again the issue would be cost effectiveness.
Cinderblocks are the cheapest was to cover a m2 of surface, both timewise and efficiency wise. This Cinvaram process requires a lot of personnel and requires a place to get the dirt, a mixing shed water to curesand etc, which are not available at reasonable costs. The only upside is the community participation.

For example. We were lucky to have a friend who would lend us his dumptruck once or twice a week to haul the dirt from a "mine' that was close by, but we had to find guys or we ourselves had to load that truck...and that was hard, backbreaking work.

Then we had to cure the bricks...well we got kids to water them like flowers...\

And so on..

Better to stick with cinderblocks, me thinks.

HB

Hillbilly said:

If I understand you, you would use this type of brick to line the drywells? Again the issue would be cost effectiveness.
Cinderblocks are the cheapest was to cover a m2 of surface, both timewise and efficiency wise. This Cinvaram process requires a lot of personnel and requires a place to get the dirt, a mixing shed water to curesand etc, which are not available at reasonable costs. The only upside is the community participation.

For example. We were lucky to have a friend who would lend us his dumptruck once or twice a week to haul the dirt from a "mine' that was close by, but we had to find guys or we ourselves had to load that truck...and that was hard, backbreaking work.

Then we had to cure the bricks...well we got kids to water them like flowers...\

And so on..

Better to stick with cinderblocks, me thinks.

HB

Click to expand...

Sounds like a pain in the ass...

So long as the experts are paying attention, I have two questions:

1. When I lived in Mexico a long, long time ago, making adobe included straw in the process. Is that necessary? If making adobe here, what is used as the straw?

2. When I as in El Salvador visiting, I found that instead of tin, aluminum, or other metals for roofing, they were using heavy fiberglass sheets that seems to be as good as metal but not nearly as hot. I'm not talking about those crappy cheap fiberglass sheets that let the sunlight in and break after two years, but instead these were heavy grey fiberglass sheets that seemed to be very resilient. Any idea what that was, and is it available here?

puryear270 said:

So long as the experts are paying attention, I have two questions:

1. When I lived in Mexico a long, long time ago, making adobe included straw in the process. Is that necessary? If making adobe here, what is used as the straw?

2. When I as in El Salvador visiting, I found that instead of tin, aluminum, or other metals for roofing, they were using heavy fiberglass sheets that seems to be as good as metal but not nearly as hot. I'm not talking about those crappy cheap fiberglass sheets that let the sunlight in and break after two years, but instead these were heavy grey fiberglass sheets that seemed to be very resilient. Any idea what that was, and is it available here?

Click to expand...

I remember there being some binder at the time, but it was 40 years ago and I was only seven years old playing in the mud. I would think chopped up roofing thatch would work.

There are some newer corrugated roofing materials in the US that are more UV resistant. The stuff you saw is prob the same as in Home Depot here. It looks like its made from PVC. The metal stuff is also much better with an electro-static paint job on it. Asphalt roofs seem to be on the way out in the US.

Quote"You will find that we don't always suffer fools gladly on this site. And there have been too many idealistic folks willing to dive right in and show everyone in the developing world how to make things better without any idea of the reality of those who live here."End quote.


Gosh that's posh.
And all cos' the chap wanted to know if he could build a straw house.
Friendly lot, aren't you?