The battle for haiti

karlheinz

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I think this is a must watch video for anyone who lives on the island of Hispaniola. The strongest thing I took away from this film were the words of the police chief at the end, " Nothing is going to solve this but a Revolution " which backups up my thoughts that nothing will change Haiti except the enthronement of another strongman - dictator - Trujillo like personage. Democracy has failed the country, the NGO's are acknowledging they have been a huge part of the problem, and to recover they are going to have to make huge changes for the entire society.
Why not take some of that money pledged and waiting and turn that into a huge public works project - create jobs for locals, the people get paid to remove the ruins, run it like a huge army. Provide security for the people and if it has to be eliminate the criminals including the economic ones. Sure, there is a loss of liberty but is that what these people really need right now? I guess my military background is showing just a tad here - lol.
Karlheinz
 

bob saunders

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Has Haiti really ever had Democracy. If every election is tainted and then the government is not run for the people, by the people? I watched a show on CTV-Global where they were interview Haitians of all walks of life, and the comon theme coming back from Haitians was that they had no leaders, and the ones they had wre only in it for themselves. Even the little street boys were echoing these thoughts.
 

Mariot

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I think this is a must watch video for anyone who lives on the island of Hispaniola. The strongest thing I took away from this film were the words of the police chief at the end, " Nothing is going to solve this but a Revolution " which backups up my thoughts that nothing will change Haiti except the enthronement of another strongman - dictator - Trujillo like personage. Democracy has failed the country, the NGO's are acknowledging they have been a huge part of the problem, and to recover they are going to have to make huge changes for the entire society.
Why not take some of that money pledged and waiting and turn that into a huge public works project - create jobs for locals, the people get paid to remove the ruins, run it like a huge army. Provide security for the people and if it has to be eliminate the criminals including the economic ones. Sure, there is a loss of liberty but is that what these people really need right now? I guess my military background is showing just a tad here - lol.
Karlheinz
yeah right, because when strongmen ruled in haiti, it was paradise on earth.
ever heard of a guy called papa doc and his competent son? haitis problems of today can be traced back very far, and if anything, one of the problems is that democracy has constantly been sabotaged. democracy hasn't failed haiti, the elites failed democracy.
 
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jackcrew

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Frontline did an excellent job

Every segment of the Frontline report disturbed me more than the next. I felt sympathy for the rape victims in the tents, anger at the escapes - then empathy for those same men when the prisons and justice system was described. To be picked up off the street for a "crime" and held up to five years before even knowing the charges awestruck me. The corruption of the leaders didn't surprise me but to learn that it was so widespread did. The business men who had to ship their families to other countries yet who refused to give up on the very nation that promotes such violence gave me a glimmer of hope.
But like previous comments posted here, the police chief training his forces while speaking of needing revolution seemed like a dire prediction.
Can there be benevolent dictators who really strive to institute rule of law and help all the citizens of a nation? I don't believe democracy could spring from a pseudo-state like Haiti. Democracies depend on previous structures and states-of-mind. Even the USA had the systems of law and structures of governance built by the British monarchy. The USA had a merchant class free to start and run business.
Perhaps the Frontline report is a prediction and the police chief will someday lead Haiti. I hope if that is true, he puts into place a system and structure that will allow that nation to transition to democracy. Like Trujillo.
 
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mountainannie

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As noted, we cannot watch the video here on Hispanola....

It is so easy to focus on the problems with Haiti... which, to me, is a microcosim of all the problems which face the bottom billion.....

so it was very refreshing to read this morning of some positive news in the poverty reduction field...... one that could also be implemented in Haiti

A Light in India - NYTimes.com
 

puryear270

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Why not take some of that money pledged and waiting and turn that into a huge public works project - create jobs for locals, the people get paid to remove the ruins, run it like a huge army. Provide security for the people and if it has to be eliminate the criminals including the economic ones. Sure, there is a loss of liberty but is that what these people really need right now? I guess my military background is showing just a tad here - lol.
Karlheinz

It always bothers me when I hear people say that liberty must be sacrificed for the sake of security. But I greatly appreciate what you're trying to say. The biggest problem with such a scenario that we learn from history is that the leadership doesn't want to let go of power once security has been achieved.

As to the idea of taking the money and putting people to work: that was pretty much what Franklin Roosevelt did in the United States during the Great Depression. Some thought it was great, including my grandfather (may he rest in peace), who otherwise would not have had money to feed his family. Others, however, including the IMF, absolutely deplore this idea. The US Congress would never send a dime to any government who even considers such a scenario.

You'd need an economist to give you a better understanding of why this is the case. But from what little I've read, the US solution prefers to hire private contractors to do these jobs because it promotes private enterprise rather than big government that people depend upon. The IMF supports the idea because the idea will "work" so long as foreign funds are coming in, but eventually those funds will be cut off. At that point, you have people expecting to work for the government and the government doesn't have the money to pay them. Then you either raise taxes, which removes incentives for private enterprise to function fully, or you unemploy people on the public payroll (and then they end up rioting in the streets).

And that would be the case IF there were no corruption. For some reason, economic theories always leave out the corruption aspect.
 

mountainannie

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Every segment of the Frontline report disturbed me more than the next. I felt sympathy for the rape victims in the tents, anger at the escapes - then empathy for those same men when the prisons and justice system was described. To be picked up off the street for a "crime" and held up to five years before even knowing the charges awestruck me. The corruption of the leaders didn't surprise me but to learn that it was so widespread did. The business men who had to ship their families to other countries yet who refused to give up on the very nation that promotes such violence gave me a glimmer of hope.
But like previous comments posted here, the police chief training his forces while speaking of needing revolution seemed like a dire prediction.
Can there be benevolent dictators who really strive to institute rule of law and help all the citizens of a nation? I don't believe democracy could spring from a pseudo-state like Haiti. Democracies depend on previous structures and states-of-mind. Even the USA had the systems of law and structures of governance built by the British monarchy. The USA had a merchant class free to start and run business.
Perhaps the Frontline report is a prediction and the police chief will someday lead Haiti. I hope if that is true, he puts into place a system and structure that will allow that nation to transition to democracy. Like Trujillo.

Thanks for your insights! Alas, as said, I could not watch the segment here. But did they talk about the Tenth Department, the Haitian Diaspora? I think that international community is pegging a lot of hope on simply getting a government in place that can complete the second passage of the Constitutional amendment which will allow dual citizenship in Haiti and thus allow the diaspora to vote. The hope is that several million VERY educated Haitians who live abroad will be able to take a far more active part in their nation's progress and wrench control from the two classes that hold it now\ the political class and the economic elites... Was this discussed at all in the Frontline episode?
 

cbmitch9

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I too watched the Frontline documentary. There were actually three documentaries on that night concerning Haiti: Frontline, Independent Lens, and Nou Bouke:Haiti's Past, Present, and Future. All I can say is Wow!! I have no idea what can be done for that country, but they are the only ones who can get themselves out of this situation. For anyone who is interested, they can view some of the videos from PBS via this link http://video.pbs.org/searchForm/?q=haiti
 
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dulce

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I too watched the PBS special on Haiti. I will preface my comments by saying it is not my intent to insult anyone especially the Dominican people who read DR1.
If they changed the title and took away the earthquake aspect this very well could have been a documentary explaining how things work in the DR.
I thought the story was very well done and covered a variety of opinions from different sectors.
They explained that while they have over 10,000 NGO's in Haiti (most of whom have been there for many years before the earthquake) that even with all the good intentions the $$ does not get to the people . The government and gangs control the $$ of the NGO's. The gangs control who gets voted into office and ONLY corrupt people can survive in politics.
A hard working Haitian woman who cooks food to sell with very little resources explained that she feels that it is never good to give people something for nothing. She explained that Haitian people need to learn how to work and earn money. They have been too conditioned for too many years to hold out thier hands for "free stuff".
She was a very wise woman in my opinion.
They did show some policemen and businessmen who can not be corrupted and I applaude thier positive attitude.
In conclusion with a system filled with corrupt politicians, gansters, non effective and non caring government. Haiti doesn't stand much of a chance for improvement with the current system in place. I see the same true for the DR.
 

bachata

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Why they are no saying the true to people in island, is that the reason for what this video can't bee seen in DR??? If my English don't betray me I'm clearly understanding that 4,500 prisoners escaped the day of the quake but the press in DR say that only 1,000. made it out of jails.

Why? can someone explain this...

JJ
 

bachata

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after watching the video my conclusion is: The police sheriff is the man they need in power!!!

JJ
 
E

engineerfg

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I too watched the PBS special on Haiti. I will preface my comments by saying it is not my intent to insult anyone especially the Dominican people who read DR1.
If they changed the title and took away the earthquake aspect this very well could have been a documentary explaining how things work in the DR.
I thought the story was very well done and covered a variety of opinions from different sectors.
They explained that while they have over 10,000 NGO's in Haiti (most of whom have been there for many years before the earthquake) that even with all the good intentions the $$ does not get to the people . The government and gangs control the $$ of the NGO's. The gangs control who gets voted into office and ONLY corrupt people can survive in politics.
A hard working Haitian woman who cooks food to sell with very little resources explained that she feels that it is never good to give people something for nothing. She explained that Haitian people need to learn how to work and earn money. They have been too conditioned for too many years to hold out thier hands for "free stuff".
She was a very wise woman in my opinion.
They did show some policemen and businessmen who can not be corrupted and I applaude thier positive attitude.
In conclusion with a system filled with corrupt politicians, gansters, non effective and non caring government. Haiti doesn't stand much of a chance for improvement with the current system in place. I see the same true for the DR.

Interesting observation. I had the same feeling when I walked into Haiti. Wondering - am I looking into the past here? or is this the future?
 
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The DR doesn't need a revolution Dulce, we need reform. The situation in DR can be fixed with proper management and coordination, by the good Dominicans who want change. Haiti needs the help of the WHOLE WIDE WORLD and then some, then later a revolution just to get where it needs to be. At least in the 20th century, not where it is right now, the stone ages.