Natural Gas versus Propane in Car

Apr 13, 2011
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Here is an article about Natural Gas car conversions in the Dominican Republic.
Dominican Republic looks to natural gas to solve energy woes - Americas - MiamiHerald.com

Does anyone have any experience with this yet?
Has anyone seen any of the cars that have been converted to Natural Gas?
I have seen many Propane cars, but none of the Natural Gas cars yet...
Where are the "two Natural Gas stations" in Santo Domingo?
Where are they planning on building the other 12 new stations this year?
Will Natural Gas cars be a better option than Propane cars?
How much are people saving by using propane in their car instead of regular gas?
If there were enough Natural Gas filling stations, would Natural Gas be significantly less expensive than even Propane?
 

sweetdbt

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Sep 17, 2004
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There are only 1500 vehicles in the entire country with the NG conversion, and they are only talking about that many more in the next year. It's really not practical yet for most people.

Lot's of info on propane conversions in this forum. Do a search. The consensus seems to be that a basic system, professionally installed (about $500 USD) will pay for itself in a year or 2.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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I wish that Natural Gas was a more practical option - it seems safer and potentially much less expensive - but yes, not practical at this time.
I am exploring Propane conversion options for now.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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I wish that Natural Gas was a more practical option - it seems safer and potentially much less expensive - but yes, not practical at this time.
I am exploring Propane conversion options for now.
I have a good used Romano propane system with spare tire tank and under dash fuel gauge/controller for sale in Santiago, RD$15,000 installed. I sold a car and the buyer didn't want it.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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I'll keep it in mind - but I have a feeling I might be able to find something right here in Santo Domingo. But - I will come back if I find out yours is going to be the best deal for me...
Thanks!
 

bayaguanaman

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Oct 22, 2009
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Update on the CNG Installers ?

Can anyone advise through their experience a good installer for a CNG system ? Thanks Car type 2010 Explorer
 

cobraboy

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Can anyone advise through their experience a good installer for a CNG system ? Thanks Car type 2010 Explorer
That will require drilling new ports into the intake runners and bypassing the fuel injector circuitry.

Be very careful.

The problem you will have is:
  • Getting your CNG cylinder refilled.There just isn't adequate distribution in the DR. If you run out of fuel on the road, you're screwed. It's not like someone can run down the street and get a Presidente Grande bottle of gasoilne.
  • Getting used to badly degraded performance.Not all fuels have the same BTU efficiency, and that's what creates power in an internal combustion engine.
You'll spend prolly US$3000 to have a system installed that makes the vehicle perform poorly (by comparision) with few fuel outlets on the island.

Additionally, CNG, like propane, is a "dry" gas and can strip prescious lubrication from valve stems causing premature wear and early failure if you don't use VERY expensive synthetic motor oil. Like US$10-12 a quart expensive. Like a $75 oil change...
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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a great public service posting by the cobra man. yes, i hope that some of these guys who want to convert to CNG will read your advice first. this is NOT a shade tree mechanic?s operation. it is expensive, and the BTU delivery from CNG is less than from petroleum based fuels, hence less horsepower, and torque. a good conversion will run into thousands of dollars, so the math should be well done to see if the cost benefit analysis pans out.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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These are the "western world" facts:
I.) In Europe, there are lots of vehicles running on CNG. However (a big one), 95% of them are public transport buses. The other 5% are comprised by some "green-going" private companies and a portion of their cargo transport fleet. I have yet to see one single passenger car running on CNG in Europe. LPG is other horse, though.

II.) Very many cars run on LPG, most of them are professional conversions with fuel injected (the 4th or 5th generation) which carry installation costs of around $1500 USD and more depending on car type (compared to 2nd and 3rd generation LPG installation in DR for about $500 USD). LPG is widespread fuel in Europe and can be pumped at majority of regular gas stations (in a different area of the station though).

I don't know why the DR government is wasting time and resources even thinking about CNG project for passenger vehicles. It will not catch on. Too bulky the storage tanks. Too much hassle to refuel. Too low efficiency per volume. They better had concentrated on CNG for public transport buses (OMSA and midsize guaguas) and maybe some interurban transport. In Europe, they usually refuel overnight in the depots. Passenger vehicles? That's something I am silently laughing about ...
 

AlterEgo

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Jan 9, 2009
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Atlantic City, NJ has a couple of hundred "jitneys", small privately owned buses that look like bread trucks, and about a year ago they introduced new 'green' jitneys using CNG. It's been VERY successful, here's one article about it

Atlantic City jitneys going green

AE
 

pjbruno

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Oct 31, 2010
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I worked for a natural gas utility in Canada and all of the company vehicles ran on both natural gas and gasoline. The CNG tanks are usually installed in the trunk of the car and will give you approximately 150 km on a full tank. I drove natural gas fuelled vehicles for 9 years and never had a service problem. The earlier models were slow during acceleration but the new systems are supposed to be much better. The biggest problem is trying to find a natural gas filling station. To combat this problem a manufacturer developed a home compressor that is connected to your home gas supply piping and will slow fill your vehicle overnight. These compressors can be rented from the utility. This would be great if you do a lot of driving or commuting otherwise it is not feasible. Honda has been installing natural gas systems in their Civic lines and are available as an option.
 
Jan 9, 2004
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Like anything else, a transition to natral gas vehicles will take time and will not be a total replacement for conventional gas powered vehicles, but make no mistake the transition is coming.

The tipping point came went Exxon merged with XTO Energy. That was the strongest signal that natural gas is due to take on a more prominient role in the worlds automotive sectors. This was then followed by Chevron's acquisition of Atlas Energy, another large natural gas player.

Natural gas vehicles are widely used in Argentina and Brazil with both countries having over 1.5 million vehicles capable of running on the fuel. Both countries are well beyond the experimental stage usually reserved for municipal vehicles, i.e. garbage trucks, buses, etc.

As has been pointed out above, the real sticking point has been the availability of natural gas to meet growing demand. This is is the prime hindrance to growth and use of natural gas vehicles...not conversion.

The D.R. is attempting to move to natural gas vehicles with the announcement of the opening of several natural gas stations in the capital area. This is a good first start, but must be followed up with an expansion of those stations into the larger cities and to a lesser extent a good public relations program to notify the citizens of the potential benefits of conversion both to the citizens in general and to the country as a whole.

Given the current huge price disparity betwen natural gas and a corresponding amount of gasoline it may not take as long as you think for natural gas vehicles to build that critical mass.

Note that their are two types of natural gas potentially in play here. LNG and CNG. Both have their adavantages and drawbacks, but both are in abundance and, rght now, a lot less expensive than conventional gasoline.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2