Does the Metro make money?

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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I think you'll find users and riders are different. A return journey is classed as two rides.

ok, my question is: does metro make any money or at least break even or does government fund it? (daily use of existing line, not further construction)
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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ok, my question is: does metro make any money or at least break even or does government fund it? (daily use of existing line, not further construction)

The average daily for the SD Metro L1 is 100,000 trips at DOP$20 a pop = RD$2 mil a day in revenues = RD$730,000,000.00 a year X US$ = +/- 19.3 million, the gov provides a subsidy of US$25 million for the Metro operations until Line 2 is in operations and the use of Natural Gas is 100% employed by the power generators of the electrical supply the system uses is achieved.

Until now the revenues from L1 are being invested to build the L2, leaving the gov subsidy in place until the L2 enters full operations.

The largest chunk of costs related to the operations of the L1 is gulped down by electrical expenses. The long term plan is to invest into gov owned wind farms that will supply the bulk of the Metro system for daily operations, leaving the rest to a mixture from the natural gas fired generators, solar plants and hydroelectric power dams when called for.
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
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The average daily for the SD Metro L1 is 100,000 trips at DOP$20 a pop = RD$2 mil a day in revenues = RD$730,000,000.00 a year X US$ = +/- 19.3 million, the gov provides a subsidy of US$25 million for the Metro operations until Line 2 is in operations and the use of Natural Gas is 100% employed by the power generators of the electrical supply the system uses is achieved.

Until now the revenues from L1 are being invested to build the L2, leaving the gov subsidy in place until the L2 enters full operations.


The largest chunk of costs related to the operations of the L1 is gulped down by electrical expenses. The long term plan is to invest into gov owned wind farms that will supply the bulk of the Metro system for daily operations, leaving the rest to a mixture from the natural gas fired generators, solar plants and hydroelectric power dams when called for.

You realize of course you did not answer her question!!!!! is it at this time making a profit,
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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I'm sure it takes a lot more than US$50,000 a day to run the Metro.

When you add in what it cost to build, the debt incurred, what it's going to cost to finish and how many people it serves today and projected in the future, it makes you wonder.

Plenty of contractors are still owed money from L1 construction.

As for the windfarms... Maybe next time they should invest in wind turbines that they can actually transport, instead of letting them rot in the port for years, as nobody had thought about how to transport something that large.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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Short answer: NO, of course not.
Will they? Highly doubtful, ever, in spite of friend Pichardo's spins on the situation.
Can they possibly: No, there are not enough riders willing to pay the 100 pesos, at least, that it costs to carry a passenger in the best of times.

HB
 

Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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And someone said the fatality thread was morbid. Metro making money? It did for certain politicians.
 

Tamborista

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The average daily for the SD Metro L1 is 100,000 trips at DOP$20 a pop = RD$2 mil a day in revenues = RD$730,000,000.00 a year X US$ = +/- 19.3 million, the gov provides a subsidy of US$25 million for the Metro operations until Line 2 is in operations and the use of Natural Gas is 100% employed by the power generators of the electrical supply the system uses is achieved.

Until now the revenues from L1 are being invested to build the L2, leaving the gov subsidy in place until the L2 enters full operations.

The largest chunk of costs related to the operations of the L1 is gulped down by electrical expenses. The long term plan is to invest into gov owned wind farms that will supply the bulk of the Metro system for daily operations, leaving the rest to a mixture from the natural gas fired generators, solar plants and hydroelectric power dams when called for.

Can you answer the f_ucking question?
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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I'm sure it takes a lot more than US$50,000 a day to run the Metro.

When you add in what it cost to build, the debt incurred, what it's going to cost to finish and how many people it serves today and projected in the future, it makes you wonder.

Plenty of contractors are still owed money from L1 construction.

As for the windfarms... Maybe next time they should invest in wind turbines that they can actually transport, instead of letting them rot in the port for years, as nobody had thought about how to transport something that large.

Of course yes that in you world of opinion, it does take more than US$50 million to run the Metro!

When you add what it cost to build means "nada" to the expenses of running it Robert, or does the tag you paid for your car means anything to the expenses of running it each day? Public investments like the Metro is not meant to be profitable to the gov or repaid the loans from the actual construction, like say when you build a multistory tower and sell the apartments.

The investment into wind towers that sat for long periods had to do with the actual capacity to install them being nill on the DR, having to procure, rent and be placed on a waiting list for the actual equipment to be sent here, after it was done elsewhere carrying out larger contracts. It was decided later on to WAIT instead, as two more wind farms got projected for later stages. This allowed the rental and expenses for the non-local equipment and know-how to be split between more partners and save a good chunk of money. As it stands, the equipment arrived as on the waiting list, and there's an extra three wind farms slated to make use of the same equipment whilst in the country carrying out the work on the two wind farms contracted.

There's not a single contractor owed money for the work on the L1 work! Not one! The ones owed money are those that committed to the work for the L2 and agreed under the term of their contracts. The ones you hear about later saying they're still owed from supplies and work related to the L1, are all subcontractors from those larger partners that already got paid, but depend on said revenues to generate what they owe to those same subcontractors they hired. Contractors will always hold out payments to the subcontractors for as long as legally possible and stipulated on their own hiring agreements. This is to hold the cash on interest bearing accounts and use the deposits as collateral for new projects of their own. This is very common and why many subcontractors don't like to work for some contractors in particular, given their pay history.

Remember the actual fare of RD$20 pesos is only until the feeder buses enter services, that's when the fares will be in the real rate that was announced in the beginning of the project. Like I said, the largest expenditure to the SD Metro is the electricity bill.
Until all lines are built, the exclusive Natural Gas power plant and links to the wind farms, hydro and solar grids will not take place.
The Metro will cut the expenses by a huge margin once that's done!

Jesus! This is a system that entered commercial service in January *30* 2009! Practically 26 months old and already you're calling it a waste of money and a big hole in the ground economically??? Boy! You guys got balls of Steel!

The actual rate for the fares for the SD Metro is going to be a little less than US$1 per ride, with multifare discounts and unlimited weekly/monthly cards. Without even gaining a single extra rider or trip per average a day, the Metro can not only cover the costs but generate more than enough revenues to continue it's own expansion down the line.
That's without even considering publicity in the terminals, in the train cars, TV monitors on both the stations and cars, rental income from commercial placements in the stations, etc...

This is the same moronic talk and arguments I find all over here about the Santiago-Santo Domingo high speed rail, which only takes a high school student a few minutes to see the flow of buses that carry passengers all week long from both ends respectively. Not even to mention the dual use of the tracks for containers cargo from and to the ports and industrial parks...
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
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And there is more on the way as well! Even if you hate it in your guts!
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9730/vistastunel3.png

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5006/vistastunel14.png

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http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2855/37789585.png

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2148/dass.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6OyAfzfOWD0/TZkaG_sxB2I/AAAAAAAAfqU/SPQmmE9Hx5s/s800/P1010086.JPG


And more, and more, and more...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aug 19, 2004
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Santiago-Santo Domingo high speed rail, which only takes a high school student a few minutes to see the flow of buses that carry passengers all week long from both ends respectively. Not even to mention the dual use of the tracks for containers cargo from and to the ports and industrial parks...

The concept of a goods line seems a good idea - but to then take it to a high speed line at 200+kph is a waste of money - who can afford and who really needs to get between Santago and SD in 30mins. Why bother to discuss - you are nothing but a proferssional troll Pichardo.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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I doubt that the Metro will ever make money... it will have to be subsidized like the NYC subway. However, I think that this was very forward thinking of Leonel to go ahead with this despite the opposition. SD is becoming a huge traffic jam. But if you want people to give up commuting in cars, you will have to offer them an alternative. The practice that the publicos have of stopping wherever they want is going to have stop.. ditto the parking on the street.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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I doubt that the Metro will ever make money... it will have to be subsidized like the NYC subway. However, I think that this was very forward thinking of Leonel to go ahead with this despite the opposition. SD is becoming a huge traffic jam. But if you want people to give up commuting in cars, you will have to offer them an alternative. The practice that the publicos have of stopping wherever they want is going to have stop.. ditto the parking on the street.

Most of the people that drive here, have never and will never use the Metro.
They will still drive their jeepetas 100 meters instead of walking.
They consider the Metro to be for the poor and wouldn't be seen dead using it.
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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tamborista pleads

Can you answer the f_ucking question?

of course he can. he just does not like the answer. as to the posting by Robert... simple, and brilliant. as i have stated , many a time and oft, the metro only achieves its objectives if people leave the car at home, and take the metro. otherwise, what is the point? well, the sociology says otherwise. Dona Mercedes Vega y Vega is not going to leave the Mercedes AMG in the driveway to go sit beside Belkis in some smelly subway car. nuff said.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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There's not a single contractor owed money for the work on the L1 work! Not one! The ones owed money are those that committed to the work for the L2 and agreed under the term of their contracts.

Or put another way...

If you want to get paid, then you better sign up for L2?
I'm not going to get into this on the board, but "major" contractors are still owed money from L1.

The standard line appears to be... When we get feeders, when we get solar power, when we get this, when we can sell ad space, when we get that etc.

The feeders have been an on-going issue. PICHARDO, please post the "real" reason why this hasn't happened yet, instead of saying when...
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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the title of the thread is...Does the Metro make money? this is Pichardo's reply to an assertion that it does not

For you that's the answer, since it's what you want to read and hear. For others is a different one, since we all know what to expect in the mid term!

since we know what to expect in the mid term? mid term what? what does the mid term have to do with today?
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
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Santiago-Santo Domingo high speed rail, which only takes a high school student a few minutes to see the flow of buses that carry passengers all week long from both ends respectively. Not even to mention the dual use of the tracks for containers cargo from and to the ports and industrial parks...

The concept of a goods line seems a good idea - but to then take it to a high speed line at 200+kph is a waste of money - who can afford and who really needs to get between Santago and SD in 30mins. Why bother to discuss - you are nothing but a proferssional troll Pichardo.

When you have zilch to counter an argument you guys always resort to name calling! Why am I not surprise here!:tired:

We travel in time not miles or distances! Do people take a bus a say, I'll be there in 300 kms???

Tiime is the essence of our transportation systems and how we conduct the majority of our daily rutines. By cutting the time it takes to travel from A to B, you provide time saving solutions to people that had little to pick from before.

Speed rail provides the platform to manage that time saving effect efficiently and with major energy savings over all other options available today. Just because the train is built ot travel at "x" max speeds, will not translate into having that speed as normal operating velocity. This translate into that the train can depart within a margin of alloted tardiness and still make up for the lost time, engaging with high speed to the next stop. A service that offers such reliability and safity of travel, is bound to impact greatly on the daily rutines of those that need to make the trek between point A and B, as they do now ineficiently with buses and facing greater risks of having an accident in the roads.

Why bother? That's your prerrogative and choice, I'm surely not forcing you to debate anything here but offer my "educated" opinion on the facts with factual merits, not "hmmm, I believe this opt to do it better!"...

A passenger speed rail service between the two major cities is a logical nessecity as much as the need for a road that's in use today since built. But here you would counter at the time of such investment: Why spend all this money on a road, when we have completely fine horses and trails all over the place to make the same trip!!! Ah! Yes! at the time the first major link between the two cities was built, at the time cars were not any faster than horse pulled carriages, since the ride was so bumpy that hitting the speedometer's top speed could easily spell doom to the riders in most situations.

But you see where that argument stands today, so too in the subway of NYC, Paris Metro, the Tube in London, Japan's undregrown and not to even mention the bullet train services (without which the Japanese would not even dream being without today).

For the DR is only a logical transportation evolutionary step to adopt newer tecnologies in applied solutions, in use all over the world today. Only ours will do so at the comfort of applying the latest advances on such segments and to the maximum capacity of savings unlike our worldly predecesors and early adopters of such solutions.

Just because you "think" not, doesn't preclude that fact that it's logical and proven to work efficiently 100%!

Who can afford it? You'll see when it's built and in service!:D
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
I doubt that the Metro will ever make money... it will have to be subsidized like the NYC subway. However, I think that this was very forward thinking of Leonel to go ahead with this despite the opposition. SD is becoming a huge traffic jam. But if you want people to give up commuting in cars, you will have to offer them an alternative. The practice that the publicos have of stopping wherever they want is going to have stop.. ditto the parking on the street.

Just because old systems like the NYC subway are money losers, the SD a sacrifice cow won't make!
Japan's subway is run like a biz, turning a profit. So too in other systems in use today all around the world. Not all systems are money losers!