Two US citizens arrested with weapons in Punta Cana

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
June 21, 2011, 8:11 PM
J-2 located seven weapons on yachts


Santo Domingo. The Ministry of the Armed Forces reported the seizure of three guns, two rifles, two pistols and 535 ammo of different caliber located by agents of the Intelligence Directorate J-2 during raids in the Port Multimodal Caucedo and in Punta Cana.

In Puerto Multimodal Caucedo a 12 gauge Mossberg shotgun was located, the 535 ammunitions, as well as a detonator for explosive devices.

While in the two yachts located in Punta Cana the seized two Ruger rifles, two pistols, a Ruger and a Taurus, and two shotguns.

Being responsible for these weapons the J-2 arrested there the Americans Andrew Edward Tommer and Robert John Davison.

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The US citizens were arrested as they arrived in two luxury yachts from Puerto Rico, none of the weapons had the permits from the authorities there or declared as they entered the DR port.

http://eldia.com.do/nacionales/2011/6/21/55681/J-2-localiza-siete-armas-en-yates
 
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gandolf50

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Apr 17, 2011
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It is not unusual for offshore boats or "yachts" to carry fire arms. Actually I doubt there are many that leave port without any.
 

Anastacio

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Feb 22, 2010
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Not sure why this made news, unless these had been used in a crime prior. So they aren't registered, not really a big deal here is it. Might be more to it, but at the moment looks pretty minor charges.
 

gandolf50

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Apr 17, 2011
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Maybe the cops wanted a quick bust. All police woulld know they could find arms on just about any boat that came into the harbour.
 

PJT

Silver
Jan 8, 2002
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Doubts?

This is going to be a tough one to sort out (Punta Cana). There are doubts? One could not fault a yacht operator to carry "a" weapon as a form of security against hijackers as hijacking in the caribbean by dope runners is not uncommon. The weapons confiscated by the military are the type that could be purchased legally (U.S.) and stored for "protection" by a yacht owner and why so many? What is absent from this picture are the semi-automatic and automatic weapons (rifles) one would expect to find in the hands of a criminal element intent on activities other than yachting.

At the minimum the US citizens are guilty of being foolish :nervous: to have unlicensed weapons in a foreign state and at the maximum they are the subcomponent of a much larger criminal :bandit: enterprise.

Regards,

PJT
 

Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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I wonder which High Ranking Officials are going to wind up with yachts.
 
Jan 3, 2003
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The moral of this story is what I have been saying for the longest.

Treat the DR the way you'd treat a casino. Only enter with money and by that extension goods that you are both willing and able to lose!!!

They shouldn't have had those weapons. If pirates or drug runners would have stolen their yacht, no problem because they heeded O&C's cardinal rule for living in the DR. If you follow this rule, your DR experience will be no problem at all.
 

belmont

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Oct 9, 2009
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They shouldn't have had those weapons. If pirates or drug runners would have stolen their yacht, no problem because they heeded O&C's cardinal rule for living in the DR. If you follow this rule, your DR experience will be no problem at all.
Unless the pirates make you take a long walk on a short plank before they steal the boat.
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
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As far as I know vessels are not allowed in any country with weapons. Every ship I have stepped foot on have prominent signs reminding people of this. Try to enter a US or EU port with a weapon. Not even coming from around Somalia is an excuse worth trying on port authority anywhere.
 

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
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JD is absolutely right. With those weapons, it would take some time to expend 500 rounds. And why would you need a detonator for "protection?"

Let's all keep in mind the Second Amendment ends as soon as you leave US Territorial waters. They were stupid for bringing an arsenal to another country without at least checking on the rules for that.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
The detonator device was found and seized in the Caucedo raid, not the boats!

To be clear the two boats searched during the check points in Punta Cana were coming from Puerto Rico and their crew at the helm, placed under custody pending legal actions.

When entering territorial waters and keeping guns in your boat (when the case warrants coming from a nation where guns are legal to carry in your vessel at sea at all times), a boat captain or crew must make contact with the local coast guard vessel or authorities in order to place the weapons under custody when reaching the marina or port. The requirements are easy to follow and will allow the crew to berth in the DR without problems, always that the weapons are placed under the care of the authorities. It's clear that the point of origin of the flagged vessels must allow such weapons on board in the first place, and that no person with a criminal history be allowed access to them as well. The permits are issued and contemplated in the marine laws for which most countries signed to.

Merchant marine vessels on the other hand are strictly banned from carrying any types of weapons onboard, save for the flare gun.

The DR requires that you declare all weapons on your boat and give an exact count of the number of ammo as well. The guns are turned over to the coast guard (Armada) or Police at the port and the ammo as well as any other thing related to the weapons (magazines, scopes, etc...). Unlike other Caribbean nations the DR holds onto your guns and will not allow the safe keeping with a sealed gun safe at the boat; requires that you check in and out of every port visited and only at certain ports.

Both the crew of the boats in Punta Cana failed to declare the guns on entry to the DR ports authorities.

They claimed that since they never intended to bring them ashore or use them otherwise in their boats whilst at the marina, they assumed it was ok to not declare them on arrival. The guns will never be given back to them and they will have to pay a stiff fine for circumventing the law! They were just "detained" until all the paperwork got done and released on bail, pending further actions from the local prosecution.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Found this personal experience from keeping several guns on a boat during travel from the US to the Caribbean, including our DR!

OUR STORY

OK, enough theory. Here are our experiences with our guns on our trip. As I said we left with a pistol and a shotgun. The shotgun Jim had bought new when he first bought "Down Time". The pistol was a little unusual and this has a bearing later in the tale. I said the gun was a Colt Super 38. This is basically an automatic .357 magnum. Colt used the .45 army frame so the gun looked like a Colt .45. Very desirable with the macho set.

Our first foreign country was the Bahamas. Here you declare your guns and each round of ammunition and they let you keep them on board.

Our next country was the Turks and Caicos. Here they confiscate your guns for the duration of your stay. But they are very proper, very British. When you are ready to leave you call them on the VHF and they bring they guns to your boat. Now here is a little wrinkle. When your guns are returned your are expected to leave immediately (this is true for all countries that confiscate guns, not just the Turks and Caicos). The police or military or whatever stand on the dock to make sure you go. Suppose your engine does not start or you get a mile away and the engine overheats and you return. Legally you are required to take the guns back to the authorities and then go through all this again when you have gotten your engine problems sorted out. Bummer.

Our next country was the Dominican Republic. The DR is one of those places that confiscates your weapons, requires you to check in and out of every port and allows cruising yachts to stop at only a few ports.

Our port of entry was Puerto Plata. Here we took the guns to the police station as instructed. When we got ready to leave for Samana we went to the police station and an officer was sent to the boat with us. He actually carried the guns and would not give them to Jim until Jim was on the boat and the officer handed them over from the dock.

Upon arrival in Samana we were required to tie up to the commercial dock to clear customs and immigration. A group of officials came on board and asked about guns. Now here is a little footnote. Each country wants to see the customs paper from when you cleared out of your previous port. The guns are declared on them. So, it is a little tough to stop declaring your guns once you have started.

Back to our officials in Samana. We brought out the guns and they were very industrious recording types and serial numbers. I knew we were in trouble when I saw the way they looked at the Colt. They kept trying to record it as a .45 and we kept saying no, it is a .38. Finally they gave us receipts and departed with the guns.

A few weeks later we were ready to leave Samana and the DR for Puerto Rico. It was a Sunday and Jim went to the police station to pick up the guns and clear out of the DR. The shotgun was there but the pistol was not. The officers on duty searched high and low, but the pistol was nowhere to be found. They called the commandante at home who came in and he called in everybody else on the force. Somebody at the police station had simply liked the gun and stolen it. It was never found. We even got the commandante to agree (in writing) that his department had lost the gun and that the DR would pay us for it. Yea, right, try collecting that one!

We also got a lesson in arguing with the Spanish macho ego. The commandante took everything we said personally and became very angry with us even though he admitted that his department on his watch had "lost" the gun. Heads you loose, tails you loose.

We called the US embassy in Santo Domingo to report what had happened. Not so much with the hope that they could do anything to recover the gun, but rather to make an official (US) report of the theft so that, if the gun ever turned up in a robbery or murder, there would be a record that it was not ours anymore. It also became obvious that the embassy had a lot more important (in their minds) things to do than help some gun toting cruiser with his problem with the commandante.

Our only consolation is that the thief will never be able to use the gun. It required a special ammunition that we had a hard time finding in the US.

I must say here that, except for the gun incident, we thoroughly enjoyed the DR and would recommend it to any cruiser headed that way.

So, off we sailed to Puerto Rico minus one gun.

Our next gun story is a funny one. We spent several months in the Virgin Islands, basing ourselves in St. Thomas and taking several 10 day to 2 week trips over to the British Virgins. We always cleared in and out of the British Virgins at West End. Each time we cleared in we declared the shotgun and were allowed to keep it on board, usually with the official comment "don't shoot anybody, mon." The actual procedure was as follows: The clearance papers had a statement in red on them which you had to sign to the effect that you had no firearms on board. Each time Jim would sign the statement and add "except one Winchester 12 gauge shotgun serial number 12345". This made the customs officials happy and off we sailed into their waters.

We had already been in and out of the British Virgins four or five times following the above procedure. One Saturday in late September we decided to sail over to the BVI for a few days. Actually what we really wanted to do was got to Sydney's Peace and Love Beach Bar and Restaurant on Jost Van Dyke for a lobster dinner. Well, it was a Saturday afternoon in the middle of hurricane season only two years after Hugo and nobody was in the BVIs. We sailed into West End, picked up a mooring and Jim dingyed to customs & immigration as usual. Both are in the same location and the office is everybody's idea of British colonial bureaucracy: white building, windows with wooden shutters, high ceiling room with ceiling fans, bored officials sitting at their desks. Actually on this summer Saturday afternoon most of the officials were sleeping at their desks. One finally came to the counter to check us in. Maybe he was upset at having his nap interrupted, but this time he decided we could not keep the shotgun on board. We even had clearance papers from previous visits that allowed us to keep the gun. In fact the official who had cleared us in on our most recent trip was sitting at his desk but was acting deaf. Nothing would do but for Jim to go back to the boat and bring the gun ashore for them to keep.

So Jim, not a happy camper, went back to the boat and got the shotgun. We did not have a case for the gun, so there's Jim walking down the dock in West End carrying a stainless steel short barrel shotgun. Quite a sight! In the 50 foot walk from the dingy dock to customs he got two offers from locals to buy the gun.

So now Jim is back in the customs & immigration office with the gun. Remember this is the large room with high ceilings and fans and officials sleeping at their desks. The same guy that sent Jim back to get the gun is at the desk. His first question is, "Is it loaded?" Well, Jim had had about enough and in answer to the question he racked the shotgun to show it was empty. Now, there is no sound on the face of the earth that can be confused with the sound of a pump shotgun action being worked! Customs officials went everywhere. Chairs turned over backward, bodies sprawled on the floor, people crawled under desks. Quite enjoyable, actually.

Well, things finally calmed down. People realized that they were not about to die from some crazed boater raking their office with shotgun fire. Everyone came over to look at the gun. They all decided that they did not want to be responsible for such a gun as it would doubtlessly be stolen from their property room. What to do? They decided to call the local police station and get them lock it up in a cell. Jim and a customs official would drive the gun the mile down the road to the police station. As they were leaving the customs building Jim got another offer to purchase the gun from a local.

They arrived at the police station. The sergeant on duty took one look at the gun and decided he was not going to be responsible for it. It would doubtlessly be stolen from his cell. The next suggestion was to take the gun to police headquarters in Road Town. By now Jim had had enough. More than enough actually. Forget it, we would just leave the BVIs and go back to the USVIs. Turns out, when you clear out of the BVIs you actually have 48 hours to leave. So we cleared out taking our gun with us, sailed over to Sydney's, had dinner (the real purpose of the trip, remember?) and returned to St. Thomas the next day.

See what a pain guns are?

We cannot honestly remember any hassles with the gun in the Windward and Leeward islands. We can't even remember for sure which ones let us keep the gun and which required it to be surrendered. Trinidad did require that the gun be surrendered. We cleared in in Chagaramas and spent several months in Trinidad. When we were finally ready to leave for Venezuela we sailed back to Chagaramas to clear out. Of course the gun was not there. It had been sent to Port of Spain and someone would have to go get it. This took hours and did nothing for our sailing schedule to Venezuela.

By now we had had enough of cruising with guns. We wrapped the gun in plastic and an old blanket and taped it with duct tape. We buried it in the bilge not to reappear until we returned to the US. From then on we answered NO to the question of guns on board.

After reading all this you still decided you want to take a gun, here are our recommendations: Take a short barrel shotgun. Countries are more tolerant of them than any other kind of firearm. If you must take a pistol take a revolver not an automatic. Revolvers do not have the macho cache of automatics. If you must take an automatics do not take anything that could be mistaken for a .45 or 9 mm as these have the highest macho factor. Don't take anything that you would mind loosing to a customs oficial.

In countries where you are required to surrender the gun, remove and keep some essential part of the mechanism in front of the customs officials. That way they will know the gun is inoperative (and not worth stealing). Also have a case (preferably a hard lockable one) to protect the guns from prying eyes.

Enough about guns. My own recommendation would be, if you feel you need some sort of protection, that you carry a police night stick. Get one of those two hand jobs and get some police friend to teach you how to use it. Pepper spray might also be an option, but it is considered a weapon in some countries and will cause you all the customs hassles. Also, imagine what it would be like to be in the closed cabin of your boat when pepper spray was used. Everybody present would be gassed. We know someone that had this happen to them when they tried to spray a rat, but that's a story for another time.

Jim & Diane

Send comments to: jkbarrentine@earthlink.net


Mid-Life Cruising Sabbatical-12-Should We Take A Gun?
 

slas7713

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Aug 9, 2004
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I had a sailor buddy that legally placed his weapons, one high dollar pistol and one rifle, in custody in Luperon upon arriving. When he went to leave all of his weapons had suddenly gone missing. The comandante just shrugged his shoulder and said they must have been stolen.
 

Condorito

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Aug 2, 2010
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Send them to Guantanamo as local grown Al Qaida wanna be terroristas getting lost on the way to Pto Rico.