civil service here - is it political?

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kimbjorkland

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I was shocked to hear a vecina friend discuss how when Hipolito wins, she has been guaranteed a post in Salud Publica as a jeffecita.

I know I'm an outsider, so this may sound like a stupid question, but in this country, can politicians / political parties post their friends into the civil service? That is to say, doesn't the civil service overlap governments and stay apolitical? Or when the governments change can they change the employees of the civil service?
 
cobraboy

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There is no civil service in the DR. It is fully based on political patronage.
 
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windeguy

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Acira said:
Sure it is like every where else in the world.
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NOT true. While civil service jobs do not exist in the DR (one reason for such high levels of corruption), they do exist in some other parts of the world.

My father was had a civil service job that had nothing to do with who was elected, for example.
 
cobraboy

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windeguy said:
NOT true. While civil service jobs do not exist in the DR (one reason for such high levels of corruption), they do exist in some other parts of the world.

My father was had a civil service job that had nothing to do with who was elected, for example.
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Agreed. Civil Service exists to take political affiliatiun OUT of the political process.

IMO, as I have often stated, lack of a functioning civil service system is the #1 problem the country has. Virtually every other problem is an extention of that.
 
Hillbilly

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Years ago, I think maybe in the administration of Antonio Guzman, they began what was/is known as La Carrera Administrativa. It was a he!! of a mess: deciding just which jobs could be careers and which not.; the qualification; the testing; and all the needed regulations. This process has gone on for four decades now, and I doubt there are 10000 in the Carrera Administrativa.

As you said, it is mostly political appointees, guaranteeing inefficiency. corruption (I gotta get mine NOW!@!!!) and frustrations at each turn of the election cycle.

HB
 
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Acira

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windeguy said:
NOT true. While civil service jobs do not exist in the DR (one reason for such high levels of corruption), they do exist in some other parts of the world.

My father was had a civil service job that had nothing to do with who was elected, for example.
Click to expand...

Every civil service in the world has political forces pushing candidates forwards, for some less, for some more, very visible or not, depending on the country but they are there.
 
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puryear270

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kimbjorkland said:
I was shocked to hear a vecina friend discuss how when Hipolito wins, she has been guaranteed a post in Salud Publica as a jeffecita.

I know I'm an outsider, so this may sound like a stupid question, but in this country, can politicians / political parties post their friends into the civil service? That is to say, doesn't the civil service overlap governments and stay apolitical? Or when the governments change can they change the employees of the civil service?
Click to expand...

How long have you been here? Damn, I wish I had your fresh perspective instead of my cynical outlook.

The press regularly reports that corruption is a huge problem here. Stick around a couple of years, and you'll understand my cynicism. (but please don't become as cynical as I)
 
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Chip

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Acira said:
Every civil service in the world has political forces pushing candidates forwards, for some less, for some more, very visible or not, depending on the country but they are there.
Click to expand...

In the US for example by far the majority of civil service positions are not chosen political, but by qualifications. My father and sister were career civil servants. I expect this is the same in most developed countries and even yours in fact.
 
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the gorgon

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Acira states


Sure it is like every where else in the world.

nonsense. in most of the British caribbean, at least until recently, civil service jobs had nothing to do with politics. you had a bureacratic job at the Treasury, or Pensions, or Department of Motor Vehicles, you held it for life. did not matter what happened in the election. the same applies to the USA. sure, some sensitive positions will change hands, but some guy in charge of renewing automobile registrations in Billings, Montana, does not get the axe because the Republicans lost.
 
cobraboy

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the gorgon said:
sure, some sensitive positions will change hands, but some guy in charge of renewing automobile registrations in Billings, Montana, does not get the axe because the Republicans lost.
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LOL! Republicans don't lose in Billings MT.

J/K :classic:

Certainly some positions in gubmint are appointed positions. But those are few in most functioning democracies (please, let's not parse "democracies") and fall outside civil service systems.

In the DR every gubmint job is political. That's why elections are so emotional. REAL jobs are on the line.
 
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RacerX

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Acira said:
Every civil service in the world has political forces pushing candidates forwards, for some less, for some more, very visible or not, depending on the country but they are there.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily so. In the US, the only political appointee is the guy who runs the department of agency. The middle level and lower level bureaucrats arent affected by that decision. It was this was when Colin Powell to Condoleeza Rice to Hillary Clinton headed the State Department. The leader of the agency was a political appointment but the people who composed the bureau stay the same. In the DR, everyone gets the boot. So no one becomes proficient at their job and dont have a vested reason to be. No one sees the point of paying dues when it is all "I gotta get mines', yo!"
 
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Acira

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ok let gets this first straight because I just realize that we seem to have a error in how the definition of a civil servant is defined here?

My thought when I heard civil service took me straight to the civil defense forces working in the fields as support when disasters happen f.e.

When reading this thread again, I think that you guy's are talking about civil servants in public office.

If that is so, then I redraw my statements but not for the so called sensitive jobs of which The Gorgon is speaking.

Acira
 
AlterEgo

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Acira, in the USA to get a civil service job you have to take written tests and do well on them. Then you wait until there is an opening, and you are called based upon your test results. You can be any - or no - political affiliation. These are the government workers [federal and/or state] - they work in offices, the postal service, the prison guards, unemployment office, etc. etc. etc.

Some groups are given extra 'points' on their tests sometimes [veterans, for example]. They keep their jobs regardless of who is in office - they are usually career jobs.

Does that clarify things for you?

AE
 
NALs

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Chip said:
In the US for example by far the majority of civil service positions are not chosen political, but by qualifications. My father and sister were career civil servants. I expect this is the same in most developed countries and even yours in fact.
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It probably is true in most developed country, but certainly not in all. From my understanding, the 'Dominican' system is alive and well in countries like Italy.

Even in some U.S. colonies, like Puerto Rico, politics functions pretty much like this.

This shouldn't be a surprise, there's no other reason anyone would support a presidential candidate like Hip?lito Mej?a.

Botellas, nothing but botellas because everything else leaves it clear that Hip?lito and company are no good. :dead:
 
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Acira

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AlterEgo said:
Acira, in the USA to get a civil service job you have to take written tests and do well on them. Then you wait until there is an opening, and you are called based upon your test results. You can be any - or no - political affiliation. These are the government workers [federal and/or state] - they work in offices, the postal service, the prison guards, unemployment office, etc. etc. etc.

Some groups are given extra 'points' on their tests sometimes [veterans, for example]. They keep their jobs regardless of who is in office - they are usually career jobs.

Does that clarify things for you?

AE
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Yes absolutely, I was on the wrong track, sorry guy's, can happen. In Dutch civil service means really civil service in the field, the civil service you are talking about here is called in Dutch speaking countries Public Functions with few open job opportunity windows and the happy few who get in after testing and evalutions and interviews have a job for life.
 
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Chirimoya

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Even the guards and the cleaners in government departments get replaced when a new party comes into government! I've heard of some exceptions though - like a friend's sister who has worked in a middle-ranking desk job at one particular ministry throughout the last several administrations.
 
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rubio_higuey

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In my country in Central Europe, the civil/government/public jobs (various public agencies) jobs are usually as follows:

Top heads (agencies, ministries, etc.) - most of the time political appointees. But it also differs if appointment is made by government or parliament. If by parliament there is more chance the appointee will stay even in case of government change. I have seen several heads designated by "former ruling government" stay leading the office, even if the "ruling" party became opposition.

80-90% of mid-level jobs are non-political, and about 99% of lower jobs in ministries, government and public agencies are non-political. There are some public agencies where appointments are made for X number of years in rotative manner - similar to U.S. senate and supreme court - and the appointees stay regardless of government (e.g. broadcast council, etc.).

That is to say, a department head in a ministry XYZ has a pretty good chance to stay even after a change of government/ruling party. A department employee in a ministry or a clerk in city council or regional officer in charge of XYZ has 99.9% chance to stay regardless of who is in the government.

.... in the DR, I have even seen nurses in public hospitals being appointed by the ruling party... and THAT I do consider ridiculous....AND dangerous.
 
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MerengueDutchie

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Acira said:
Yes absolutely, I was on the wrong track, sorry guy's, can happen. In Dutch civil service means really civil service in the field, the civil service you are talking about here is called in Dutch speaking countries Public Functions with few open job opportunity windows and the happy few who get in after testing and evalutions and interviews have a job for life.
Click to expand...

i'm confused here Acira.. the so called 'ambtenaren' (civil servants) make up about 1 in 7... are you talking about the entry exams for the EEU jobs?

Apart from that here in the DR every govt/municipal/state job can change hands after an election...most do..

Another effect is that a lot of the times, the old civil servants get appointed as help to the new incubents, actually doubling the number of civil servants... this is then repeated when the election swings back.. in effect creating a fair number of jobs (esp on council level) whereby the job is done by two representatives, switching formal responsibility as election results allow for.
 
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