Cabarette harassment cont:

rover · Sep 23, 2011

Original thread closed due to it straying way off topic and I just wanted to add these comments.

A few have defended the aggressive tactics used by these panhandlers/vendors/entrepreneurs or what ever else you want to call them (I call them pains in the ass) explaining their behavior as their being hungry amongst other "excuses"

I will offer my humble opinion/view on this. I have traveled to a many a third world countries: Panama, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, (yes Puerto Rico) Guatemala, Colombia, and I got to say the Dominican/Haitian/African tactic of intimidation is self defeating and a detriment to both the perpetrator and the vacationer.

I myself after a week or 2 will get bored and would love to peruse the stores along the beach in Sosua as well as the stores on the way to the beach but one CANNOT stroll through the stores without the vendor trying to harass you into buying something if on that day you only want to peruse his and other vendors merchandise before you make a final decision on what and where you want to make your purchase.

The end result of this tactic is that 4 to 5 % of prospective clients (usually first timers to the DR) will be intimidated into buying something and the other 95 to 96 % of clients (which I fall within) will refuse to be intimidated by these antics and will not purchase anything either then or in the future.

This is the true end result and I have tried in vain to explain this to these idiots but they just feed off each others stupidity and resort back to the failed strategies that have been practiced from their beginnings.

The definition of insanity is to try to solve a problem and when the strategy used fails instead of trying a new strategy the individual resorts to the same strategy over and over again but with more intensity expecting a different outcome.

Honestly can anyone really deny the self defeating behavior that is perpetrated by these individuals ?? Explain it, Excuse it or whatever else makes you feel good but in the end it is self defeating and one of the reasons that they on that or any other day are hungry.

rover · Sep 24, 2011

1. Please re-read. This was not my "rant". I only followed up on the the original thread. In matter of fact this is the first post I made on this topic.

2. YES this is the definition of insanity at least according to Albert Einstein.

Insanity: doing the same thing... at BrainyQuote

But then again I'm sure you believe you are more qualified than he in this as well as every other topic :bunny:

So far that' s 2 for 2 :ermm:

FritoBandito · Sep 24, 2011

It is what it is, and the aggressive sellling is part of the landscape in 3rd world countries, just like the palm trees and beaches are part of the landscape of the North Coast.

I'd be an aggressive selller myself if I was trying to support myself or my family by selling trinkets on the beach......

....yeah, I get a little irritated sometimes by their tactics, but then I think a pleasant thought like I'm on an ocean beach on a sunny day with 90 degree heat while back home in the US, they're getting a 3-foot-deep snow enema expulsion dumped on them....oh, wait...I am on a sunny beach!!!!!! Man, am I lucky to be here!!!!!!!!

Don't get yourself all worked up over something that's not going to change.....just take a deep breath and be thankful you can afford to take a vacation in a foreign land, something a good majority of working-class Dominicans can only dream about and never afford !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seamonkey · Sep 24, 2011

FritoBandito said:
It is what it is, and the aggressive sellling is part of the landscape in 3rd world countries, just like the palm trees and beaches are part of the landscape of the North Coast.

I'd be an aggressive selller myself if I was trying to support myself or my family by selling trinkets on the beach......

....yeah, I get a little irritated sometimes by their tactics, but then I think a pleasant thought like I'm on an ocean beach on a sunny day with 90 degree heat while back home in the US, they're getting a 3-foot-deep snow enema expulsion dumped on them....oh, wait...I am on a sunny beach!!!!!! Man, am I lucky to be here!!!!!!!!

Don't get yourself all worked up over something that's not going to change.....just take a deep breath and be thankful you can afford to take a vacation in a foreign land, something a good majority of working-class Dominicans can only dream about and never afford !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said.

rover · Sep 24, 2011

FritoBandito said:
It is what it is, and the aggressive sellling is part of the landscape in 3rd world countries, just like the palm trees and beaches are part of the landscape of the North Coast.

I'd be an aggressive selller myself if I was trying to support myself or my family by selling trinkets on the beach......

....yeah, I get a little irritated sometimes by their tactics, but then I think a pleasant thought like I'm on an ocean beach on a sunny day with 90 degree heat while back home in the US, they're getting a 3-foot-deep snow enema expulsion dumped on them....oh, wait...I am on a sunny beach!!!!!! Man, am I lucky to be here!!!!!!!!

Don't get yourself all worked up over something that's not going to change.....just take a deep breath and be thankful you can afford to take a vacation in a foreign land, something a good majority of working-class Dominicans can only dream about and never afford !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally agree ... except on this part

FritoBandito said:
I'd be an aggressive selller myself if I was trying to support myself or my family by selling trinkets on the beach......

As I find it counter productive and self defeating. But you and they can proceed as you see fit but just don't lay blame at someone else's door if you are a failure in your goal of selling.

As far as getting worked up ... not at all.

It is just a discussion. :cheeky:

I sense the posters (as in #2) that defend such counter productive practices somehow are getting worked up by taking this as some sort of personal attack on themselves to which they feel inclined to defend.

Kipling333 · Sep 24, 2011

This type of aggressiveness is not only to be found in the north but there are some shops in calle Conde in the capital where the employees will not leave you alone even though you want a little time to browse ,,,the result is that they drive potential purchasers away .

windeguy · Sep 24, 2011

My thoughts are that if you let this type of behavior get to you it could lead to insanity. Your insanity.

If you can't ignore it, you are in the wrong place. You are not the tail that can wag the dog here. You might as well be asking them to put their clearly labeled bottom line price on every item instead of haggling. It simply is not going to happen. Get over it and move on.

belmont · Sep 24, 2011

Hmmm. I guess I thought I must have been in the DR last week. Went into a Mercedes dealership in NJ last week and this guy insisted on trying to sell me a car.

Expat-in-Cabarete · Sep 24, 2011

I agree with the OP. I have met numerous tourists in Cabarete that don't like to be harassed by the vendors, especially on the beach, when they're trying to relax, read a book, take a nap. Not to mention if you start reading reviews of Viva, tourists get really harassed there and many mention they would never return to Cabarete. Things need to change, and I'm aware of a group of businessmen in town trying to implement some sort of order and code for the vendors not to harass tourists.

I fully understand that these people are trying to make a living but if they drive away tourists, then they won't make a living one way or the other. Selling their goods is one thing; harassing people, another.

Personally the vendors don't bother me; I know how to handle them, but tourists are bothered and they are the main source of income to the vendors and most businesses in town. You can't just dismiss the issue by saying "if you can't ignore it, you are in the wrong place." How are tourists going to know ahead of time don't come to the DR if you don't like over-the-top pushy vendors?

I too traveled extensively to many developing countries; never seen anything close to what we see here.

FritoBandito · Sep 24, 2011

Like they are trying to create prostitute-free zones in Sosua and have chased away a majority of the street vendors, I think that "vendor-free" zones on both Sosua and Cabarete Beaches would be a welcome change for tourists.....

.......be hard for police to control though: it would almost have to be a gated, private beach sort of thing...........

Hlywud · Sep 24, 2011

AS long as it stays on topic, it will not be closed

rover · Sep 24, 2011

Kipling333 said:
This type of aggressiveness is not only to be found in the north but there are some shops in calle Conde in the capital where the employees will not leave you alone even though you want a little time to browse ,,,the result is that they drive potential purchasers away .

EXACTLY " the result is that they drive potential purchasers away "

Expat-in-Cabarete said:
I agree with the OP. I have met numerous tourists in Cabarete that don't like to be harassed by the vendors, especially on the beach, when they're trying to relax, read a book, take a nap. Not to mention if you start reading reviews of Viva, tourists get really harassed there and many mention they would never return to Cabarete. Things need to change, and I'm aware of a group of businessmen in town trying to implement some sort of order and code for the vendors not to harass tourists.

I fully understand that these people are trying to make a living but if they drive away tourists, then they won't make a living one way or the other. Selling their goods is one thing; harassing people, another.

tourists are bothered and they are the main source of income to the vendors and most businesses in town. You can't just dismiss the issue by saying "if you can't ignore it, you are in the wrong place." How are tourists going to know ahead of time don't come to the DR if you don't like over-the-top pushy vendors?

I too traveled extensively to many developing countries; never seen anything close to what we see here.

ON POINT.

In case it wasn't made clear enough the type of behavior being discussed both here and on the original thread is the type where a tourist is walking to the beach in either Sosua, Cabarette, or any of many other resort areas and a young man will come out from his store, cross the street, stand in the path of the tourist impeding his progress and sometimes even put his hands on the tourist while telling/ (trying to command) him to look in his store. The strategy being to try to intimidate or become such a nuisance that the tourist will acquiesce and just purchase something to end the encounter so he/she/ they may proceed on their way.

I seen this once being done to some poor guy with his visibly 6+month pregnant wife while they both were just trying to enjoy their holiday walking to the beach and this tactic was employed by this 25 year old male "vendor" placing himself in front of them both and putting his hands on "BOTH" the guy and his wife. Taking the pregnant woman by her arm and pulling it in the direction of his store/shack. The guy was quite understandably upset and protested leaving him with the options of going along with this harassment/shakedown or having to resort to being physical and confrontational with his 6+ month pregnant wife at his side so they could proceed. I myself almost intervened with the guy but when the wife started yelling "STOP" "STOP" "LEAVE US ALONE" the "vendor" finally I guessed figured they had been harassed sufficiently and a sale wasn't going to happen so he gave up and permitted them to continue unmolested, until of course they encounter the next aggressive vendor lying in wait.

This behavior is beyond being counter productive. Its beyond being rude or obnoxious. Its uncivilized and in my opinion criminal. Any country that "DEPENDS" on tourism as much as the DR does and cannot see the negative impact this has on the local economy and tourism itself is doomed to remain marginalized forever.

So no ...we are not talking about the tactics employed in a US car dealership here.

tballerina · Sep 24, 2011

Vendor harassment in sosua

I found it totally annoying to even go by those shops in Sosua beach and not being allowed to walk by without the aggressive tactics. I was with Dominicans and they were just as upset except that they didn't pull any punches and told the vendors off. We ended up going to Puerto Plata where there is a beautiful air conditioned souvenir store where we shopped at our leisure and had friendly staff but not in the least pushy. The prices were better than at the Sosua beach. I wish I could remember name of the store, it's huge and has everything you want and then some. Hope someone can send in the name, and I hope that something can be done about those vendors in Sosua beach. There was also a Haitian shop near the center of Sosua and they did the same thing. I had to cross the street every time I went by, which could not be avoided because my hotel was down the street from the shop. But the guy shouted from the store for me to come shop there and even crossed the street a few times, and I was never alone, my son (13 and tall) was always with me, at other times I had a couple of friends. But that situation left a bad taste in my mouth.

ramesses · Sep 25, 2011

Expat-in-Cabarete said:
I too traveled extensively to many developing countries; never seen anything close to what we see here.

Have you been to Jamaica? Seriously, the hassling that occurs in Cabarete is very, very mild towards the type of hassling that occurs in a place like Negril. Not saying its right....

Just sayin.....

mike l · Sep 25, 2011

tballerina said:
I found it totally annoying to even go by those shops in Sosua beach and not being allowed to walk by without the aggressive tactics. I was with Dominicans and they were just as upset except that they didn't pull any punches and told the vendors off. We ended up going to Puerto Plata where there is a beautiful air conditioned souvenir store where we shopped at our leisure and had friendly staff but not in the least pushy. The prices were better than at the Sosua beach. I wish I could remember name of the store, it's huge and has everything you want and then some. Hope someone can send in the name, and I hope that something can be done about those vendors in Sosua beach. There was also a Haitian shop near the center of Sosua and they did the same thing. I had to cross the street every time I went by, which could not be avoided because my hotel was down the street from the shop. But the guy shouted from the store for me to come shop there and even crossed the street a few times, and I was never alone, my son (13 and tall) was always with me, at other times I had a couple of friends. But that situation left a bad taste in my mouth.

This is terrible and I will bring this issue up at the next meeting I have with the powers that be.

In order to get that bad taste out of your mouth I will reduce my consultaion fee by 50%.

Mike

rover · Sep 25, 2011

ramesses said:
Have you been to Jamaica? Seriously, the hassling that occurs in Cabarete is very, very mild towards the type of hassling that occurs in a place like Negril. Not saying its right....

Just sayin.....

if in order you have to justify this nonsense you have to resort to comparing it to the shenanigans in Jamaica .. a place many of people will NOT frequent for this very reason then you are actually confirming what is being said here.

It's like someone who has a drinking problem having to compare themselves to a drunk homeless guy sleeping in the gutter and saying look ... I'm not as bad as him ????

O.K. we believe you ... I have never been to Jamaica but believe you when you say its worse. I guess Charlie Manson isn't that bad cause he didn't kill as many people as ......

Oh Boy !

Anastacio · Sep 25, 2011

Depends where and what day you are there. Years ago I used to get my ankles grabbed by girls on the beach as I strolled by, you earn to live with it and they with you an eventually ignore you. Vendors? come on guys, if you can not tell a street seller, beach vendor or ankle biter to sod off then you really do not deserve to let out of your home country. Well certainly not Africa or Caribbean, hard banter is cultural!

Anastacio · Sep 25, 2011

rover said:
O.K. we believe you ... I have never been to Jamaica but believe you when you say its worse. I guess Charlie Manson isn't that bad cause he didn't kill as many people as ......

Oh Boy !

WHat you on about if you have never been there before. It is an accurate comment that parts of Jamaica are hardcore hassle joints and have devistated the tourist zones. The same could happen here but I doubt it as most are return visitors and do so for there personal reasons. Thats sounds nuts in itself, but less and less people want to visit what was once the cheap mans Caribbean when they can get the Full Monty for the same price. Used to be in Europe people would come here because they could get a package for under half of the rest of the Islands in these waters.

rover · Sep 25, 2011

Anastacio said:
come on guys, if you can not tell a street seller, beach vendor or ankle biter to sod off then you really do not deserve to let out of your home country. Well certainly not Africa or Caribbean, hard banter is cultural!

Do you really think it makes you macho arguing and fencing with these assholes ???? Maybe in your eyes but not in 80% of tourists eyes. Most tourist ( including myself) just want a stress free vacation.

Anastacio said:
, you really do not deserve to let out of your home country.Well certainly not Africa or Caribbean, hard banter is cultural!

OK ... then by nature you are saying they are doomed to the status quo ??

Hmm in the final analysis who really needs whom more ???

With your position of accepting the staus quo tourist WILL vacation and spend their dollars elsewhere and then these "vendors" better tighten their belt even more because for them hunger is gonna take on a whole new level of meaning.

As for expats living with them ....."paradise" will also be redefined as well.

Anastacio · Sep 25, 2011

Macho? my 80 year old mother visits here and sees them off in a heatbeat, she is 4'9 and not the toughest dude on the beach, lol. Hell, I see no real harm in it. If you want peace then book a private Island where vendors are not desperate or even permitted, this is cheapo Dominican Republic, I can't get my head around why people can not get the point across, in the end of the day the international F--k O-f is very well appreciated. If the point can not be made then have a word with someone who can get the point across, like the Mrs, Shiiiat, some people are just so out of place.

People making a living, just ignore them, plug your lugs with ipod, but stop the pussy bitching ffs!

Cabarette harassment cont:

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