Nuria Takes On "Dominican Watchdog"

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,369
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<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0EOmaU0FZWo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Well, well; isn't this interesting?
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
Looks like Jan got his wish, lots of publicity. Bottom line, most of the new he publishes is true.

The DR needs to learn how to deal with negativity, rather then blame someone else or try and sweep it under the carpet.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
Let me add...

Nuria's researchers need to learn the difference between page views and visitors.
If 10 visitors look at 10 pages each, that's 100 page views.

DR1 does 100,000 page views in 2 days.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Looks like Jan got his wish, lots of publicity. Bottom line, most of the new he publishes is true.

The DR needs to learn how to deal with negativity, rather then blame someone else or try and sweep it under the carpet.


It's true within the context they were taken from, not how they were represented as a whole Robert!

No country in the Caribbean (including Haiti) has faced more negative campaigns than the DR.

The price of sugar is a one sided history and take on the Haitian issue of the country and island, poorly developed as one sided and myopic on the real issues behind the problem.

This guy has an agenda, after being deported for criminal activity in the DR....

It's one thing to place an article about 100 homicides over the course of several months in the entire DR, quite the other to represented like a genocide is going full blast Mexico style all around the country.

Needless to say it also fails to show how those foreigners got to become victims in the DR, as you and I know, a lot of them happened to be in the wrong side of the Law and hanging with the wrong crowd...

There's negativity all around in the Net about the DR, we deal just fine with all of it. As soon as people come to the DR and see with their two eyes and experience first hand that Haitians are not enslaved with shotgun totting guards keeping them from escaping the surgarcane fields. That Dominicans are in the majority mixed and quite not blue eyed. That if anything, we're a very welcoming and friendly people. No matter the negative campaigns and ills, the true is overwhelmingly clear!

What other country in the world has an open door policy to Haitians on the face of the earth?????
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
It's obvious he has an agenda, but that doesn't detract from the fact that most of the stories are true.

When people get screwed on real estate deals or bitten by corruption and they feel they have no recourse, then sometimes they do whatever it takes to get heard. In this case, the guy created a website that is having an impact, or so it would seem when you get the likes of Eddy Martinez commenting about it. I was very surprised about that, personally I wouldn't have given the site the time of day.

The DR has to learn to deal with this type of negative press or agenda, it's not unique to the DR. The problem is they take the "deflection" or "no es mi culpa" approach, instead of actually owning up and addressing the underlying issues.

Bottom line... Instead of crying, blaming other people or saying they are worse than us.
Step up, do the right thing, show the world you are "actually" serious about corruption, putting things right etc. Then you will have something to say and show when confronted with negative press.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
It's obvious he has an agenda, but that doesn't detract from the fact that most of the stories are true.


Within the context of how, where, to whom and why yes. As he represents it NOT and all BS!



When people get screwed on real estate deals or bitten by corruption and they feel they have no recourse, then sometimes they do whatever it takes to get heard.

When people get screwed in RE deals they are victims of their own stupidity and ignorance foremost!

Why you say this is the only country where such cases are unique to all others? People in the US had their homes taken from under them by swindlers and got nothing back even after going to court and all of the media. It's still going on even by the hands of banks. Why is this sooooo unique of the DR?

There's a lot of cases where people put themselves in that situation and very few where they got into a deal which was valid to take to court. It's a matter of when in Rome...



In this case, the guy created a website that is having an impact, or so it would seem when you get the likes of Eddy Martinez commenting about it. I was very surprised about that, personally I wouldn't have given the site the time of day.


In this case the guy got what he had coming to him for involving himself with criminal activites. You know as well as I do that it takes quite the case to have the DR deport people, the more so in cases involving RE fraud...

This man is sullied with bad, bad stuff to his neck... It will all come out soon!


The DR has to learn to deal with this type of negative press or agenda, it's not unique to the DR. The problem is they take the "deflection" or "no es mi culpa" approach, instead of actually owning up and addressing the underlying issues.

Please do say where and how did any official interviewed or the same Nuria said the facts were all lies? The matter is that how it's being used to portrait the whole country and people over a string of unrelated cases country wide.




Bottom line... Instead of crying, blaming other people or saying they are worse than us.
Step up, do the right thing, show the world you are "actually" serious about corruption, putting things right etc. Then you will have something to say and show when confronted with negative press.



We don't have to do nothing like that Robert! We're not racist, nor wake up every morning to kill people, sell drugs, commit RE fraud and rape our women.

Nor do we have to go and set up a counter campaign to debunk these type of people and sources with agendas...

All we need is to let people come and see and meet the real DR and people...
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
Insanity = Doing what you have always done and expecting a different outcome.

PICHARDO, thanks for proving my point :)

Blame, deflect, someone else etc. Instead of... This is what we are doing, these are examples of change etc.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Insanity = Doing what you have always done and expecting a different outcome.

PICHARDO, thanks for proving my point :)

Blame, deflect, someone else etc. Instead of... This is what we are doing, these are examples of change etc.


So if I take all the homicides, drug arrests, rapes, foreign people that got killed, etc... from a span of my choosing out of all the events that take place in the USA, UK or Canada and paste them as a string of what's taking place in each of those countries to reflect all hell broke down in those places is equally insanity for the same citizens to point out the obvious?????

They are just wrong for pointing out the rational and plain to see outlandish presentation of their country and people as put above?

Deflect? My, my, my! But when? When I DON'T accept labels or BS as given facts for the DR and fellow Dominicans, that's not accepting fault?

Robert, please! Pretty please!

Since you already have a foot in the peace eden that's Colombia use the DR1 forum to open the eyes of all foreigners and Dominicans alike to see the DR for what we DON'T want to see it or accept it at face value as you want to portrait as above referenced by you...

Just be careful on your next walk around Bogota and don't get blow out to pieces by a car-bomb, which is the usual in the DR...
 
Jun 18, 2007
14,280
503
113
www.rentalmetrocountry.com
It's true within the context they were taken from, not how they were represented as a whole Robert!

No country in the Caribbean (including Haiti) has faced more negative campaigns than the DR.

The price of sugar is a one sided history and take on the Haitian issue of the country and island, poorly developed as one sided and myopic on the real issues behind the problem.

This guy has an agenda, after being deported for criminal activity in the DR....

It's one thing to place an article about 100 homicides over the course of several months in the entire DR, quite the other to represented like a genocide is going full blast Mexico style all around the country.

Needless to say it also fails to show how those foreigners got to become victims in the DR, as you and I know, a lot of them happened to be in the wrong side of the Law and hanging with the wrong crowd...

There's negativity all around in the Net about the DR, we deal just fine with all of it. As soon as people come to the DR and see with their two eyes and experience first hand that Haitians are not enslaved with shotgun totting guards keeping them from escaping the surgarcane fields. That Dominicans are in the majority mixed and quite not blue eyed. That if anything, we're a very welcoming and friendly people. No matter the negative campaigns and ills, the true is overwhelmingly clear!

What other country in the world has an open door policy to Haitians on the face of the earth?????


If the DR wouldn't allow Haitians to enter the country then nothing would be build in the DR!!!!
 
Jan 9, 2004
10,898
2,224
113
So if I take all the homicides, drug arrests, rapes, foreign people that got killed, etc... from a span of my choosing out of all the events that take place in the USA, UK or Canada and paste them as a string of what's taking place in each of those countries to reflect all hell broke down in those places is equally insanity for the same citizens to point out the obvious?????

They are just wrong for pointing out the rational and plain to see outlandish presentation of their country and people as put above?

Deflect? My, my, my! But when? When I DON'T accept labels or BS as given facts for the DR and fellow Dominicans, that's not accepting fault?

Robert, please! Pretty please!

Since you already have a foot in the peace eden that's Colombia use the DR1 forum to open the eyes of all foreigners and Dominicans alike to see the DR for what we DON'T want to see it or accept it at face value as you want to portrait as above referenced by you...

Just be careful on your next walk around Bogota and don't get blow out to pieces by a car-bomb, which is the usual in the DR...


Pichardo:

You just quoted Robert about blame and deflect and deny it...then you point to Colombia.....which is a perfect example of deflection.

You may not like the messenger of the website, but you have done nothing to discredit the message except to say that it may not accurately portray the entire country and that the individual may have some agenda. Well Transparency International happens to agree with at least part of his premise of the deep rooted corruption in the DR. But, you can take solace in the fact that there are other worse Latin American countries (and we know you love to tell us how it is worse elsewhere)....Honduras, Nicaragua and Venezuela.

To say that his site is a stringing together of totally unrelated and isolated incidents of a disgruntled deportee is to ignore that corruption is more ingrained than you care to admit.....and the first step in dealing with a problem......is to admit there is one.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
20,574
341
83
dr1.com
So if I take all the homicides, drug arrests, rapes, foreign people that got killed, etc... from a span of my choosing out of all the events that take place in the....

I'm well are of the dangers on what goes on around the world. I have lived and worked all around the planet and continue to travel all over it.

So...

Instead of talking about somewhere else, talk about the Dominican Republic.

Instead of saying, you cannot prove we are corrupt, prove why you're not corrupt.

Instead of blaming someone else, take responsibility for your actions.

Etc etc etc....
 

Randall Bell

New member
Feb 17, 2012
266
0
0
Good Morning Robert and Pichardo,


Pichardo, you make some good points that the info on that website is 'spun', but what Robert is saying is that even if you remove the 'spin', it's still bad info that should be addressed. For example Grupo Barcelo has joined many other countries and the UK ambassador to call for better protection of investors rights. What 'bad intent' could Barcelo group have? They've put so much into the country and promoted it so well globally... what Robert is suggesting is that yes, this guy has an 'axe to grind', but look past his motivations and look at the actual news stories, don't just shoot the messenger instinctively.

I want to also suggest another thing. Perhaps you and Robert see things differently because of some cultural differences. You state that Real Estate investors that get screwed in the DR have only themselves to blame. That it's their stupidity and ignorance that got them into that situation.

Here's the thing Pichardo. We westerners agree that greedy stupid people have only their stupid greed to blame. But we also have some 'expectations' about our government and about trust networks that Dominicans don't have. For example we believe that your government should at the very least ensure that you have a 'fair trial'. We believe that your lawyer, if you pay him, has an ethical responsibility to represent your best interests, and his failure to do so will result in his law society removing his title and ability to practice law ever again. We feel that government employees - be they judges, clerks, or people who work at land titles offices, should always be honest with you and if they're 'on the take', they should go to jail.

Dominicans grow up believing the opposite. That you can't trust the government. That you can't trust the police. That there are no 'public trust networks'. For this reason every single transaction comes down to - 1 tiguere vs. 1 tiguere. And everything is 'fair game'.

So for example, when we westeners hear about repeated cases where a seller of some real estate is making fraudulent representations to a gringo, and the real estate agent is 'in on it', and the gringo's lawyer is getting part of the fraudulent money as a kick back, and the employees at the land titles office are 'in on it', and when the gringo takes the whole group to court, the judge gets paid to rule against the gringo -- well when we westerners hear cases like this, or the grupo barcelo situation, we think 'hey the system is stacked against us, it needs to change'. Whereas perhaps you Dominicans think - heh heh, stupid gringo's, not tiguere enough, they have to blame their stupidity and ignorance. etc.

In conclusion, I think the DR would be better suited putting all of that energy used to 'shoot the messenger' to instead fix the things that the messenger is talking about - that way he has nothing to talk about...
 

bachata

Aprendiz de todo profesional de nada
Aug 18, 2007
5,341
1,246
113
Just watched one of the video links in this this website Dr. Ernesto Fadul attacks Leonel Fernandez...

What happened to this guy?

JJ
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
16,772
429
0
Santiago
It is interesting the owner of "Dominican Watchdog" was deported from the country because of supposed illegal business practices but it appears he is only re-posting printed articles as opposed to editorial commentary.

The Dominican governmental official interviewed says they are monitoring the webpage but "the government" honestly feels it has little impact because people would come here and make there own assessment. I would say that maybe this was the case 20 years ago or more but this is the technology age and any half wit can do a great deal of due diligence with google; and part of that would be searching news and forums about a country or area of a country. Maybe the gov't officials are naive in this regard or maybe they are just too busy trying to rob the coffers before their term ends to pay attention to anything else.
 

bachata

Aprendiz de todo profesional de nada
Aug 18, 2007
5,341
1,246
113
It is interesting the owner of "Dominican Watchdog" was deported from the country because of supposed illegal business practices but it appears he is only re-posting printed articles as opposed to editorial commentary.

The Dominican governmental official interviewed says they are monitoring the webpage but "the government" honestly feels it has little impact because people would come here and make there own assessment. I would say that maybe this was the case 20 years ago or more but this is the technology age and any half wit can do a great deal of due diligence with google; and part of that would be searching news and forums about a country or area of a country. Maybe the gov't officials are naive in this regard or maybe they are just too busy trying to rob the coffers before their term ends to pay attention to anything else.
Yes Chip you are right there is nothing new for me in this site. that's is a re-posting site of news and videos that I have already seen on youtube.

JJ
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Pichardo:

You just quoted Robert about blame and deflect and deny it...then you point to Colombia.....which is a perfect example of deflection.


Where exactly did I deny that these things don't happen in the DR??? Where did I deflect the fact that the DR is host to events like those, when I clearly made the example to how things are blown out of proportion as the goal for the article?



You may not like the messenger of the website, but you have done nothing to discredit the message except to say that it may not accurately portray the entire country and that the individual may have some agenda.


Why or with what motive should I try to discredit the facts presented, except to accurately point to the fabrication of the state of things based on a packaging of those same facts to readers? Did I ever or for the same token the Dominican Nuria said they were based on lies?




Well Transparency International happens to agree with at least part of his premise of the deep rooted corruption in the DR. But, you can take solace in the fact that there are other worse Latin American countries (and we know you love to tell us how it is worse elsewhere)....Honduras, Nicaragua and Venezuela.


Transparency International and equally many of you expats here want to measure the DR by the same set of rules your own countries work based upon. If the DR looked or functioned just like the myriad of those compared to nations as pointed out, it wouldn't be the DR many of you came here and fell head over heels to live on. Once you reach the terminus of a Police state and tax to death notion of a country you so compared the DR to a proper functioning state, kiss that freedom that made you like the DR goodbye...



To say that his site is a stringing together of totally unrelated and isolated incidents of a disgruntled deportee is to ignore that corruption is more ingrained than you care to admit.....and the first step in dealing with a problem......is to admit there is one.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2


So I'm forced to admit (considering out the article packages the events) that the DR is an all out every man for himself 2012 dodge city? That expats and tourist are being targeted for murder and crime as soon as they step off the plane? That every RE deal in the DR is 100% for certain going to be a rip off? That Dominican courts are just a montage of justice and there's not a single case that will see proper legal enforcement?

If I were to admit to those facts, then the country I know and the people I know are not in this dimension and time...


The DR is a developing country, a country that's evolving ever so fast than must here care to admit (pun intended). Those that have been living or coming to the DR for at least a few decades can not only see the changes, but admit it did so under the worst possible economic conditions in the region and enemies to democracy.

To admit anything as this dirty campaign of packaged unrelated events wants to portrait the DR as, is to admit NOT knowing jack of the DR as of today or ever, let alone the people that are behind the name...
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
I'm well are of the dangers on what goes on around the world. I have lived and worked all around the planet and continue to travel all over it.

So...

Instead of talking about somewhere else, talk about the Dominican Republic.

Instead of saying, you cannot prove we are corrupt, prove why you're not corrupt.

Instead of blaming someone else, take responsibility for your actions.

Etc etc etc....


I talked about the DR, and the fact that events happen just like I said they do in other countries and yet we don't allow for our intelligence to be insulted when packaged as this article and detractor intends each time.

I don't need to prove we're not corrupt, because we're! That's what allows you to cut pay off the police agent when you carry out a clear traffic infraction. That's what allows people to pay for the fast track instead of waiting on line, that's what allows so many things you decry about the DR that make it the DR you came to live at.

Where do I place blame elsewhere? Just like Nuria said and I said, the events are totally true for most of the facts, the way it's being packaged in a malicious matter and as if the country is a hell on earth is far from the truth and YOU know it first hand.

Etc, etc, etc...