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Thread: Is America a Socialist Country?

  1. #1
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    Default Is America a Socialist Country?

    Bill Maher: New Rules - Socialism - YouTube

    Americans say they hate socialism, but they certainly run head first towards these programs:

    1. Social Security
    2. Medicare
    3. Umemployment
    4. Corporate bailouts
    5. Farm Subsidies
    etc.

    Frank

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    When the Americans build the Panama Canal they were living in a socialist environment there. The same wages, housing, subsidies, health care etc. The USA is on its way to become an American Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank12 View Post
    Bill Maher: New Rules - Socialism - YouTube

    Americans say they hate socialism, but they certainly run head first towards these programs:

    1. Social Security
    2. Medicare
    3. Umemployment
    4. Corporate bailouts
    5. Farm Subsidies
    etc.

    Frank
    Socialism implies transfer of wealth.

    But Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment are NOT transfers of wealth. Or were never structured that way.

    They each are PRE-PAID "insurance" programs. The individual pays into SS and MC for an entire lifetime, often $325,000-$425,000. It's almost like an annuity: pay into it for a loooooong tme, then receive distribution based on what you paid in. That is HARDLY "socialism." The fact that gubmint did a crap job in predicting demographics, expanded the programs well beyond initial intent-usually for vote-buying reasons-and chose crap investments (T-Bills instead of traditional investment vehicles) does not change the facts. They just point out typical bureaucratic/political mishandling of funds. Nothing to see here. Move along. Bidniz as usual.

    Unemployment is also an insurance program but underwritten on an individual bidniz, not on the individual. Premiums are determined by the bidniz profile from claims being filed.

    All 3 programs are similar: they require historic payments into a "Trust Fund" to pay for future claims. NOT socialism.

    Contrary to political spin, not all gubmint programs are "socialism." Non sequitor unless you ignore facts.

    What we generally think of "Welfare" is more of a "socialistic" program because they rely on current general taxation...NOT specific taxation like FICA or UTC-6...to fund them. Same as bailouts, subsidies, etc. Those are classic wealth redistributions that are more indicative of "socialism."

    Don't mix the two, they are NOT the same.

    But the bigger issue is the increasing addiction Free Cheese someone else paid for. There is a certain irony in how we see "Do Not Feed the Animals" signs in parks and zoos...lest they become dependent of easy food access, lose their hunting skills and become aggressive toward the easy food source...yet society is A-OK with humans becoming dependent on Free Cheese from gubmint.

    But I suppose that irony would also change if animals were given the "right" to vote...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
    Socialism implies transfer of wealth.


    Your opening assumption comes from where?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrochemical View Post
    Your opening assumption comes from where?
    Not an assumption.

    The $$$ for gubmint to spend has to come from somewhere. Gubmint doesn't have the $$$ themselves, but DO have guns and a military to enforce tax laws. Taxation is either to pay for gubmint or for economic sanctions. Take your pick. And when only half the population pays wealth (income) taxes, it's clear there is a transfer of wealth.

    And, specifically, gubmint in the US has ordered 450,000,000 .40cal hollow point bullets to be delivered to it in the next 5 years.

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    America is not a socialist country. However, it is on the path to becoming one. The entitlement mentality is overtaking the population and people are looking for more and more "free" money and bennies from the government. Couple that with the philosophy of many politicians that the government can and will take care of everyone's needs and problems through a new program of some sorts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
    Not an assumption.

    The $$$ for gubmint to spend has to come from somewhere. Gubmint doesn't have the $$$ themselves, but DO have guns and a military to enforce tax laws. Taxation is either to pay for gubmint or for economic sanctions. Take your pick. And when only half the population pays wealth (income) taxes, it's clear there is a transfer of wealth.

    And, specifically, gubmint in the US has ordered 450,000,000 .40cal hollow point bullets to be delivered to it in the next 5 years.


    Interesting, and I am in no way throwing stones here.

    There is an Atlantic divide, perhaps a linguistic divide.
    But what socialism means to you is obviously different to what it means to me.



    What parts of a society do you feel should become/remain socialised?
    For example, where do you stand on the following?

    The police?
    The army?
    Education?
    Health?
    The fire service?
    The postal service?
    Libraries?
    Ambulance service?

    How far would you like government to butt out of our lives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
    America is not a socialist country. However, it is on the path to becoming one. .
    And will probably be stopped by votes. If that don't work, there's always Plan B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrochemical View Post
    Interesting, and I am in no way throwing stones here.

    There is an Atlantic divide, perhaps a linguistic divide.
    But what socialism means to you is obviously different to what it means to me.



    What parts of a society do you feel should become/remain socialised?
    For example, where do you stand on the following?

    The police?
    The army?
    Education?
    Health?
    The fire service?
    The postal service?
    Libraries?
    Ambulance service?

    How far would you like government to butt out of our lives?

    Dump everything but libraries.....

    A good book goes a long way every now and then.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobraboy View Post
    Socialism implies transfer of wealth.

    But Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment are NOT transfers of wealth. Or were never structured that way.

    They each are PRE-PAID "insurance" programs. The individual pays into SS and MC for an entire lifetime, often $325,000-$425,000. It's almost like an annuity: pay into it for a loooooong tme, then receive distribution based on what you paid in. That is HARDLY "socialism." The fact that gubmint did a crap job in predicting demographics, expanded the programs well beyond initial intent-usually for vote-buying reasons-and chose crap investments (T-Bills instead of traditional investment vehicles) does not change the facts. They just point out typical bureaucratic/political mishandling of funds. Nothing to see here. Move along. Bidniz as usual.

    Unemployment is also an insurance program but underwritten on an individual bidniz, not on the individual. Premiums are determined by the bidniz profile from claims being filed.

    All 3 programs are similar: they require historic payments into a "Trust Fund" to pay for future claims. NOT socialism.

    Contrary to political spin, not all gubmint programs are "socialism." Non sequitor unless you ignore facts.

    What we generally think of "Welfare" is more of a "socialistic" program because they rely on current general taxation...NOT specific taxation like FICA or UTC-6...to fund them. Same as bailouts, subsidies, etc. Those are classic wealth redistributions that are more indicative of "socialism."

    Don't mix the two, they are NOT the same.

    But the bigger issue is the increasing addiction Free Cheese someone else paid for. There is a certain irony in how we see "Do Not Feed the Animals" signs in parks and zoos...lest they become dependent of easy food access, lose their hunting skills and become aggressive toward the easy food source...yet society is A-OK with humans becoming dependent on Free Cheese from gubmint.

    But I suppose that irony would also change if animals were given the "right" to vote...
    CB, well said.
    I can't fathom why politicians (left and right) are constantly talking about Social Security and Medicare as entitlements?

    Yes, North America is a socialist country. More so for the last 3+ years.... Long Live Obama!

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