Why is progress so hard for such a great place?

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pollogringo

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http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/126869-hard-beat.html(thanks donP)

Why can't The Dominican Republic seem to get out of this funk?

It's resource-rich, picturesque and there's an innate nobility in many that outshines widespread dishonesty and irresponsibility.

Your personal theories, explanations, suggestions, frustrations, hopes, etc., please.

I sense the fatalistic mindset plays an important role. And there's a feeling that it's a place that's been abandoned by its father and chaos reigns. Or maybe it's the heat and humidity. Or it's just the victim of lop-sidedness in geopolitics and the world economy.

What gives?
 
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RonS

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I'm really interested in what forum members have to say about to this. My sense is that the source of the problem has deep histical roots.
 
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pollogringo

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RonS said:
I'm really interested in what forum members have to say about to this. My sense is that the source of the problem has deep histical roots.
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

In no particular order:

Trujillo. Tinkering from the US. Los bucaneros. Repeated occupations followed by utter abandonment. Slavery. Meddling from the Roman Catholic Church.
 
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Zulu

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It's the whole region there is something missing lack of stability, law & order take a look at the way people drive it's like organized chaos, or how one passes you in the line at the Bank, Supermarket as if you seize to exist. I don't think the Roman Catholic Church is to blame i think it has something to do with;

a):Confusion (History, heredity, Ancestry)
b):Greed (self Interest, Corruption)
c): Exposure
d): Education (knowledge, Ignorance, discipline)
 
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JohnnyBoy

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I would say the entrenched system of corruption, coupled with the oligarchic history and control of capital.
The power class is happy with the status quo.
 
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nas

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JohnnyBoy said:
I would say the entrenched system of corruption, coupled with the oligarchic history and control of capital.
The power class is happy with the status quo.
Click to expand...

This is not a Dominican thing... when will the slave master volunteer to free their slaves? never!

As for the elite, they will always be happy with the status quo.
 
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nas

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Zulu said:
It's the whole region there is something missing lack of stability, law & order take a look at the way people drive it's like organized chaos, or how one passes you in the line at the Bank, Supermarket as if you seize to exist. I don't think the Roman Catholic Church is to blame i think it has something to do with;

a):Confusion (History, heredity, Ancestry)
b):Greed (self Interest, Corruption)
c): Exposure
d): Education (knowledge, Ignorance, discipline)
Click to expand...

I posted a while ago that some of our problems stem from the fat that we are a mutt.

Who wouldn't be confused with an ancestry derived from the Indian, African, European, Spaniard, French and US.

I have also been saying that some of you criticize what you don't understand, since we get our traits from all of the above.

"Quien este libre de pecado, que tire la primera piedra!"
 
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pollogringo

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I have also been saying that some of you criticize what you don't understand, since we get our traits from all of the above.
Click to expand...

Sometimes wanting to understand gets mistaken for criticism.

"Quien este libre de pecado, que tire la primera piedra!"
Click to expand...

Nobody's throwing any stones.
 
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Castle

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I migth be too simplistic here, and I know many factors come into play...but I don't think it is a coincidence that none of the spanish colonies has bee able to make it. Maybe it was the way the colonies were run by the monarchy, or the spanish heritage itself, but what you see in the DR you see it at all other latinamerican countries.
 
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Givadogahome

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The DR can not be allowed to move too far ahead, the earth, the people, the climate, the history behind it all has to carry a significance more important than our modern interpretation of a success. Everything we judge is judged by the standards we know and understand, and if we don't understand then we label it as void, unsuccessful.
Look at the individual in DR, tough, they know what it is to live, to make your life.
Look at an individual from US or Europe, having life dictated to them. So wrapped up in what their idea of success is that they haven't even noticed every step is prep planned (they even believe they've done it themselves, as of it wasn't always on the cards), it was only ever theirs to fail, they played little part in the success, all they need to do is what is expected and all will be fine. Is that success?

The DR has to exist as it does, it is a success in its own right. It has not been dragged into modern expectation asked to face the bar, where success is so difficult, as everything is so easy.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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It's difficult judging through foreign eyes.

Maybe it's ~us~ who are dictating how they, Dominicans, are supposed to live and what "success" is...
 
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Castle

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Givadogahome said:
The DR can not be allowed to move too far ahead, the earth, the people, the climate, the history behind it all has to carry a significance more important than our modern interpretation of a success. Everything we judge is judged by the standards we know and understand, and if we don't understand then we label it as void, unsuccessful.
Look at the individual in DR, tough, they know what it is to live, to make your life.
Look at an individual from US or Europe, having life dictated to them. So wrapped up in what their idea of success is that they haven't even noticed every step is prep planned (they even believe they've done it themselves, as of it wasn't always on the cards), it was only ever theirs to fail, they played little part in the success, all they need to do is what is expected and all will be fine. Is that success?

The DR has to exist as it does, it is a success in its own right. It has not been dragged into modern expectation asked to face the bar, where success is so difficult, as everything is so easy.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point of view, and I would agree 100% if it wasn't because this version of dominican "success" is so hard on those children who have to clean windshields in the middle of traffic, and so many women who have to open their legs to feed their fatherless children, or for those old people without any support system, and so many broken families because of inmigration...
 
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JohnnyBoy

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nas said:
This is not a Dominican thing... when will the slave master volunteer to free their slaves? never!

As for the elite, they will always be happy with the status quo.
Click to expand...

Well its not solely a Dominican thing but it is a factor in the DR today. The elite will be there until their system becomes untenable. If corruption is brought under control, and the monopolies are broken, fair trade and taxation, small businesses are encouraged. It would be nice to see. Then the DR would be like it is in Pichardos head. Its tough to worry about the big picture when most people just want to eat.
 
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nas

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Castle said:
I migth be too simplistic here, and I know many factors come into play...but I don't think it is a coincidence that none of the spanish colonies has bee able to make it. Maybe it was the way the colonies were run by the monarchy, or the spanish heritage itself, but what you see in the DR you see it at all other latinamerican countries.
Click to expand...

Precisely! The same behavior is exhibited through out Latin American and the Caribbean because we went through the same process...
 
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Frank the Tank

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pollogringo said:
Absolutely.

In no particular order:

Trujillo. Tinkering from the US. Los bucaneros. Repeated occupations followed by utter abandonment. Slavery. Meddling from the Roman Catholic Church.
Click to expand...

I think there are bigger culprits and reasons than Trujillo and the Catholic Church. Salvador Jorge Blanco comes to mind. He has more to do with the current climate of thieving politicos.
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

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nas said:
I posted a while ago that some of our problems stem from the fat that we are a mutt.

Who wouldn't be confused with an ancestry derived from the Indian, African, European, Spaniard, French and US.

I have also been saying that some of you criticize what you don't understand, since we get our traits from all of the above.

"Quien este libre de pecado, que tire la primera piedra!"
Click to expand...

Actually being a heinz 57 mutt is probably a good thing. The DR issues all boil down to lack of education. None of this confusion of ancestry, slavery,...etc.
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

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Castle said:
That's an interesting point of view, and I would agree 100% if it wasn't because this version of dominican "success" is so hard on those children who have to clean windshields in the middle of traffic, and so many women who have to open their legs to feed their fatherless children, or for those old people without any support system, and so many broken families because of inmigration...
Click to expand...

Its because they openned their legs in the first place that they have fatherless children. I however have observed that at least half or more of the children at my wife's school (560 children) are picked up or deliveried by their fathers.
 
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pollogringo

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cobraboy said:
It's difficult judging through foreign eyes.

Maybe it's ~us~ who are dictating how they, Dominicans, are supposed to live and what "success" is...
Click to expand...

True success is not measured by GNP. I'm thinking more in terms of a general sense of personal well-being and security. The Dominican reality is that the police are not seen as protectors but as unwilling to do their jobs at best and dangerous and and exploitative at worst. Women stay with abusive men because they feel they must endure. Corruption and graft raise no eyebrows. It's all accepted very graciously. But, no, I don't think any of that makes them happy.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

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pollogringo said:
True success is not measured by GNP. I'm thinking more in terms of a general sense of personal well-being and security. The Dominican reality is that the police are not seen as protectors but as unwilling to do their jobs at best and dangerous and and exploitative at worst. Women stay with abusive men because they feel they must endure. Corruption and graft raise no eyebrows. It's all accepted very graciously. But, no, I don't think any of that makes them happy.
Click to expand...
You don't live here, do you?

A vacationer, correct?
 
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Castle

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bob saunders said:
Its because they openned their legs in the first place that they have fatherless children. I however have observed that at least half or more of the children at my wife's school (560 children) are picked up or deliveried by their fathers.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Now think about what happens with the kids that can't afford to go to school because they have no father. I don't think it's fair to say women are to blame because they had sex with their partner. Thamight be the reason why they had a child, but not the reason why that child has no father. And yes, it all comes down to lack of education, but lack of education is a consequence as much as it is a cause of a failing social structure.
 
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