Cars Flooded by Hurricane could be on the Market

frank12

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Sep 6, 2011
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Buyer Beware: Cars Flooded by Hurricane Could Turn Up on the Market - NYTimes.com
November 2, 2012, 4:36 pm<!-- date updated --><!-- <abbr class="updated" title="2012-11-02T17:06:04+00:00">— Updated: 5:06 pm</abbr> --><!-- Title -->

Buyer Beware: Cars Flooded by Hurricane Could Turn Up on the Market


<!-- By line --><address class="byline author vcard">By MARCIA BIEDERMAN</address><!-- The Content -->Many cars submerged by the floods caused by Hurricane Sandy could eventually turn up on the automotive market. Consumer advocates warn that buyers need to beware of vehicles that have suffered water damage, only to be dried out and marketed by sellers who conceal their histories. Nevertheless, new federal regulations could help protect car buyers.
On Wednesday, Geico had already received 20,000 auto claims for flood and other damage from the East Coast, according to a statement issued by Tony Nicely, chairman of the company. State Farm said it had received 4,000 claims. Those numbers are expected to grow, and many of the cars are sitting in salty water, a particular threat to electrical systems and air bags.
After a total-loss claim is paid, insurers typically sell the vehicle to the salvage market. Because flooded vehicles often bear no signs of physical damage, "they offer a prime opportunity for con men to clean them up and sell them," said Larry Gamache, a spokesman for Carfax. After other flood events like Hurricane Katrina, he said, "the percentage of cars that ended up in the market was alarming."
But because of strengthened federal regulations, consumers have more access to information about vehicle histories than in past major storms. In 2009, the Justice Department began requiring insurers to register vehicles designated total losses in the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System within 30 days of the designation. Salvage yards and self-insured companies, like dealerships and car-rental businesses, must also report totaled vehicles. The reports can be found at vehiclehistory.gov.
In the past, consumer advocates and legislators worried that differences in state laws could allow a car described on its title, or "branded," as a flood vehicle in one state to emerge with a clean title in another state. Now, title-washing, as it is called, "is much less of a problem," said Rosemary Shahan, president of Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety. Her group and other consumer advocates successfully sued the Justice Department in 2008, demanding that regulations be issued.
The result, Ms. Shahan said, is that vehiclehistory.gov tells consumers whether a vehicle has been totaled regardless of lax state titling laws or interstate sales. (The Web site notes, however, that compliance with its federal regulations varies by state, with 88 percent in full compliance.)
There's also the National Motor Vehicle Title Information System, which is supported by user fees rather than federal money. Fees range up to $12.99 for vehicle history reports. Mr. Gemache noted that Carfax, which charges $39.99 for a comprehensive vehicle history, lets consumers check free whether a vehicle has been in a flood at carfax.com/flood. Ms. Shahan noted, however, that some states do not brand vehicles as flooded.
Vehicle histories and stronger laws have made fraudulent car sales more difficult, said Mark Schienberg, president of the Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association. Still, he said, his group warns its members to be alert when buying cars from the auction market. He said transactions through private sellers, which account for about half of all used car sales, call for caution.
Even detailed vehicle histories can miss flood damage, said Walter Hedge, owner of Walt's Water Works, a car repair shop in Chesapeake, Va., that dries out minor leaks but will not attempt repairs on serious water damage. Customers have brought in vehicles with clean histories only to discover that "the car was four feet under water," Mr. Hedge said. After that, he added, "the only thing that's good is its sheet metal."
 

Castle

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Sep 1, 2012
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You bet they will find their way to the DR, where they will be more difficult to detect.
 

sayanora

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Feb 22, 2012
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I wonder how much carfax has to pay the nytimes to get a "subtle" advertisement in their paper. Surely more effective than a full page color ad.
 

Bronxboy

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2007
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<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mNXzw-LtzqE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>..............
 

Bronxboy

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2007
14,107
595
113
This was originally in the Off Topic forum, I moved it because it might be of interest to the People of the DR.

Hey Wud, why the change from "Super Moderator" to 'Lead Moderator"?
 

Castle

Silver
Sep 1, 2012
2,982
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0
I was thinking that about the flood cars winding up here. I would not be surprised.

I would not be surprised if the vultures of car dealing are probably offering half of what insurance companies have to pay, to buy some of those cars. People would normally have to wait a few weeks to get their money from insurance, and with disasters like these, it could take even longer. So many could take less money for their flooded cars right away. Those cars will obviously end up in DR or some other countries, with a clean carfax or whatever, but carrying the seed of self-destruction within...
 
Jun 18, 2007
14,280
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www.rentalmetrocountry.com
I would not be surprised if the vultures of car dealing are probably offering half of what insurance companies have to pay, to buy some of those cars. People would normally have to wait a few weeks to get their money from insurance, and with disasters like these, it could take even longer. So many could take less money for their flooded cars right away. Those cars will obviously end up in DR or some other countries, with a clean carfax or whatever, but carrying the seed of self-destruction within...

Cars like in "Mission Possible", they self destruct as soon as they hit Dominican soil? :eek:
 

frank12

Gold
Sep 6, 2011
11,847
29
48
This is what i wrote this past November about used cars.

I was living in Bonao, circa 1993-2004, i was playing poker at a family member's house when someone came over to look at some cars he was selling. we stopped the poker game so that he could go outside and show some cars he just imported; every one sitting around the poker table immediately got up and ran to the bathroom, because, as many people already know, when playing poker, no one wants to leave the poker table--even to urinate; naturally, this sometimes results in urinating in one's pants where it slowly rolls down your leg and creates a puddle underneath the poker table. In order to alleviate the smell and accomodate everyone, my cousin has dug a hole and placed steel grates underneath the poker table--they run the length of the table which seats seven people--where excess water, beer, and urine is carried away out back into a lagoon. This is quite genius and allows urine to be flushed away, but more importantly, when you have a good hand, and lots of betting is going on, and money is flying everywhere, you don't have to leave the table. Still, some people suffer--my aunts in particular, but some men as well--and as a result, these people sit around suffering for hours, sometimes days, before their bladders explode and they're carried off on a stretcher to the emergency room. But before the ambulance has left, some other idiot has already taken their seat at the table.

My cousin--who's not really a cousin--we just call each other cousin because we're all related somehow through other distant dominican cousins--was outside showing a round 5 or 6 cars that he had just picked up in the Santo Domingo port the day before. he imports several cars a month.

Anyway, i was doing nothing, so after peeing for what seemed like, i don't know...30 minutes, maybe more, I nearly passed out from the ecstasy of extreme bladder relief (EBR)--i walked over and looked at some of the cars he had for sale: he had mini-vans, Honda CRV's, Toyotas, etc. i've seen so many cars pass through his house over the years that, well, i've seen just about every make and model over 20 years--including the "Pope Mobile" and a Back to the Future--Delorean. Ok, maybe not the Delorean. I apologize...I drink a lot.

Anyway, I was looking at a beautiful, nearly new Honda mini-van. it was maybe a year old. it was beautiful and smelled new and it didn't have a dent anywhere. in fact, there was still plastic on the seats. it looked as if it had never never been sat in or driven. it had few miles...did i mention it looked and smelled new?

There were a couple guys looking at the engine bay. you could have eaten off the engine. it was that clean! it was easy to see this was hardly ever driven. the stickers on the radiator and water hoses were as clear and new as they could get. did i mention the engine looked new? Well, it looked new becuase it turned out that it was in fact new. however, after some closer inspection, i noticed something odd. i didn't bring it up right there and then because, well, honestly, i kind of forgot about it becuase i was still swimming in the ecstacy of my bladder relief after urinating for 30 minutes.

Then, sometime during the poker game, I turned and asked my cousin--who's not really my cousin--"How much are you asking for the Honda mini-van?" he thought about it and said, "well the blue book value is around $30,000, but in Santo Domingo the same van would cost you "new" $48,000. However, i'm only asking $18,000." I thought to myself, man, thats a very good deal for a fully loaded mini-van, especially one that was only a year old! but then i remembered what i noticed while i was looking inside the engine bay, and said, "Oh yeah, i almost forgot, when i was looking inside the engine bay, i couldn't help but notice that, although the engine was clearly new, all the bolts on top of the struts, and the bolts surrounding the engine bay were all very rusty. Why is that? Everyone at the poker table laughed. I laughed with them. I had no idea why i laughed? Maybe because we'd been up fro two days playing caribbean poker. And then he told me something as if it was such common knowledge that i must be the only idiot to not know about it..."All those cars out there, Frank," he said chuckling, "are from the Katrina hurricane that rolled through New Orleans. They were all flooded. We purchase all our cars from dealers auctions in the U.S (You must have a dealers license in order purchase vehicles wholesale at dealer's auctions in the USA). We clean them up and then send him to different central and south american countries. Although they all had salvage titles when we bought them, once the vehicles enter another country (any central or south american country), a new Matricula (Title) is issued and the original "Salvage Title" is replaced with a new title."

Then he proceeded to explained why this is neccessary. "Think about this for a second," he said, "how could I purchase a nearly new mini van for $30,000, then pay to have it transported, then prepped, then pay all of the "Aduana taxes" (Customs taxes) for this country; then pay the "first time registration" taxes (for the license plate) for this country, then pay for the handling and transporting to different dealerships around the island, and then make any kind of profit that would justify the financial investment and logistics involved?

After everything is paid for, there would be no profit margin, period. Therefore, the only way to make it worthwhile is to buy vehicles whole sale (at a dealer's auction) with either very high mileage (which gets rolled back) or with a salvage title (which gets replaced with a new title)."

And that's the way it's done. The end.

Frank
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
I would not be surprised if the vultures of car dealing are probably offering half of what insurance companies have to pay, to buy some of those cars. People would normally have to wait a few weeks to get their money from insurance, and with disasters like these, it could take even longer. So many could take less money for their flooded cars right away. Those cars will obviously end up in DR or some other countries, with a clean carfax or whatever, but carrying the seed of self-destruction within...


cars that pass through floods are declared salvage vehicles for one of two reasons. if it is a freshwater flood, and the water gets above the dashboard, it is a total loss. if it is a saltwater flood, the water just has to get to the base of the door aperture, right at the top of the rocker panel. in both those cases, the title is branded SALVAGE, with the flood designation. if memory serves me correctly, that is a federal statute, and flood titles cannot be washed, unlike collision titles in some states. as long as the vehicle has a lien, and is carrying comprehensive insurance, the title will be a flood title. the DR does not allow rebuilt salvage into the country. therefore, unless some guy self insures a vehicle, whereupon it will not show up in carfax, there is very little likelihood of a rash of flood vehicles ending up here.
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
This is what i wrote this past November about used cars.

I was living in Bonao, circa 1993-2004, i was playing poker at a family member's house when someone came over to look at some cars he was selling. we stopped the poker game so that he could go outside and show some cars he just imported; every one sitting around the poker table immediately got up and ran to the bathroom, because, as many people already know, when playing poker, no one wants to leave the poker table--even to urinate; naturally, this sometimes results in urinating in one's pants where it slowly rolls down your leg and creates a puddle underneath the poker table. In order to alleviate the smell and accomodate everyone, my cousin has dug a hole and placed steel grates underneath the poker table--they run the length of the table which seats seven people--where excess water, beer, and urine is carried away out back into a lagoon. This is quite genius and allows urine to be flushed away, but more importantly, when you have a good hand, and lots of betting is going on, and money is flying everywhere, you don't have to leave the table. Still, some people suffer--my aunts in particular, but some men as well--and as a result, these people sit around suffering for hours, sometimes days, before their bladders explode and they're carried off on a stretcher to the emergency room. But before the ambulance has left, some other idiot has already taken their seat at the table.

My cousin--who's not really a cousin--we just call each other cousin because we're all related somehow through other distant dominican cousins--was outside showing a round 5 or 6 cars that he had just picked up in the Santo Domingo port the day before. he imports several cars a month.

Anyway, i was doing nothing, so after peeing for what seemed like, i don't know...30 minutes, maybe more, I nearly passed out from the ecstasy of extreme bladder relief (EBR)--i walked over and looked at some of the cars he had for sale: he had mini-vans, Honda CRV's, Toyotas, etc. i've seen so many cars pass through his house over the years that, well, i've seen just about every make and model over 20 years--including the "Pope Mobile" and a Back to the Future--Delorean. Ok, maybe not the Delorean. I apologize...I drink a lot.

Anyway, I was looking at a beautiful, nearly new Honda mini-van. it was maybe a year old. it was beautiful and smelled new and it didn't have a dent anywhere. in fact, there was still plastic on the seats. it looked as if it had never never been sat in or driven. it had few miles...did i mention it looked and smelled new?

There were a couple guys looking at the engine bay. you could have eaten off the engine. it was that clean! it was easy to see this was hardly ever driven. the stickers on the radiator and water hoses were as clear and new as they could get. did i mention the engine looked new? Well, it looked new becuase it turned out that it was in fact new. however, after some closer inspection, i noticed something odd. i didn't bring it up right there and then because, well, honestly, i kind of forgot about it becuase i was still swimming in the ecstacy of my bladder relief after urinating for 30 minutes.

Then, sometime during the poker game, I turned and asked my cousin--who's not really my cousin--"How much are you asking for the Honda mini-van?" he thought about it and said, "well the blue book value is around $30,000, but in Santo Domingo the same van would cost you "new" $48,000. However, i'm only asking $18,000." I thought to myself, man, thats a very good deal for a fully loaded mini-van, especially one that was only a year old! but then i remembered what i noticed while i was looking inside the engine bay, and said, "Oh yeah, i almost forgot, when i was looking inside the engine bay, i couldn't help but notice that, although the engine was clearly new, all the bolts on top of the struts, and the bolts surrounding the engine bay were all very rusty. Why is that? Everyone at the poker table laughed. I laughed with them. I had no idea why i laughed? Maybe because we'd been up fro two days playing caribbean poker. And then he told me something as if it was such common knowledge that i must be the only idiot to not know about it..."All those cars out there, Frank," he said chuckling, "are from the Katrina hurricane that rolled through New Orleans. They were all flooded. We purchase all our cars from dealers auctions in the U.S (You must have a dealers license in order purchase vehicles wholesale at dealer's auctions in the USA). We clean them up and then send him to different central and south american countries. Although they all had salvage titles when we bought them, once the vehicles enter another country (any central or south american country), a new Matricula (Title) is issued and the original "Salvage Title" is replaced with a new title."

Then he proceeded to explained why this is neccessary. "Think about this for a second," he said, "how could I purchase a nearly new mini van for $30,000, then pay to have it transported, then prepped, then pay all of the "Aduana taxes" (Customs taxes) for this country; then pay the "first time registration" taxes (for the license plate) for this country, then pay for the handling and transporting to different dealerships around the island, and then make any kind of profit that would justify the financial investment and logistics involved?

After everything is paid for, there would be no profit margin, period. Therefore, the only way to make it worthwhile is to buy vehicles whole sale (at a dealer's auction) with either very high mileage (which gets rolled back) or with a salvage title (which gets replaced with a new title)."

And that's the way it's done. The end.

Frank

really, Frank? so how do you get them on a ship to the DR with a flood title?