Citizenship Papers

mountainannie · May 15, 2013

Nationality protest continues outside Presidency

Dozens of young people from the Recognize Us as Dominicans Movement have held a day of prayers and protest outside the Presidential Palace to ask President Danilo Medina once again to fulfill his promise to solve the problem that affects 19,000 residents who are descended from Haitians and claim Dominican nationality. They are challenging the cancellation of their identity documents by the Central Electoral Board (JCE).

The demonstrators staged their protest peacefully, wearing black shirts and with black umbrellas, and praying, "I am Dominican, President Danilo Medina don't close your eyes to the injustice of the JCE. I am Dominican and I have rights, free us from Pharaoh Roberto Rosario".

Group representative Ana Maria Belique said that they could not wait another six years, and that they wanted to get on with their lives.

Their last protest was held on 12 April 12, when they met with Deputy Presidency Minister Henry Molina, who expressed sympathy with their cause and promised to look at their demands. However so far they have had no response.

Dominicanos de ascendencia haitiana vuelven a Palacio a pedir les reconozcan derecho a la nacionalidad - ElDia.com.do

todays DR1 news

I have not been following this news except through the grapevine.. This has been talked about for the last year. It has been said that even that small portion of Haitians who do have legal cedulas here have been refused renewals. I was told that it was acknowldged that it was illegal but that it was simply being done.

I am not clear on what the six years referred to is// do you have to renew the permanent cedula every six years?

This is going to mean that the children of these people will be permanently stateless / since the parents were not born in Haiti, they will be permanently stateless. This means that they will not have the rights to go to high school here, get a driver's license, get a job... etc.

Very few of the Haitians who are come here have the wherewithal to get a cedula because they do not have the Haitian passports, the birth certificate, everything that is required to get a cedulas.

To have cedulas taken away from people who were BORN here because of their ancestry... and I know that the DR does NOT have jus solis.. BUT there is a long process to GET a cedula in the first place..

anyway.. just wanted to hear thouoghts

dv8 · May 15, 2013

i think haitians are despised here because they represent everything dominicans do not want to be: very dark and very poor.

the reason why the residency process has been made so difficult now is only to make the lives of haitians more difficult. i do not believe for a second there is anything else behind it. i can pay a 100 bucks for my cedula and 200 for residency. how many haitians can fork out 300 dollars just like that?

mountainannie · May 15, 2013

Yes, I guess that they are targeting this group based on the last name of one of the parents. That it is a Haitian name.

I think that we have to be very clear when talking about this particular group that they are .. at the very least .. Haitiano Dominicanos.. in that they were born here.. not perhaps that that gives them any more rights in THIS country but it does take away their rights of citizenship for their children in the country of their parents.

I think that the there are about 15% of Dominicans who do not even get papers for their children.. because they are simply illiterate and unable to go through the process. And withouot the ceudla, one cannot go to high school. I believe that i am right on this. Certainly willing to be corrected on the facts

Naked_Snake · May 15, 2013

mountainannie said:
Y

And withouot the ceudla, one cannot go to high school. I believe that i am right on this. Certainly willing to be corrected on the facts

Nope. During Milagros Ortiz Bosch's tenure as Secretary of Education (and Vice President of the Republic) on the 2000-2004, all documental barriers for children were lifted as far as primary and secondary school was concerned. Colleges/universities are another story, however, and with the rising cost of living here, one needs (as a bare minimum) to have Master's Degree in order to have a job with a livable salary (unless one is "pegado" with the local politicians, of course).

Lando calrisian · May 15, 2013

Dear DV8 it's true what you say, you can get your papers that easily. However you are married to a Dominican dude so the law says that your entitled to it. No offense meant by that. On top of that we don't get many university educated Poles, overwhelming our services and infrastructure.
They were born here, TRUE again. But there is NO ONE stopping them from going to a Haitian consulate or embassy, or even taking a bus and going to the country of their origins, which is basically an hour away, it's ridiculous.
If they want to migrate here and so forth let the legal process work it's way. But to have MountainAnnie and the other foreign entities come here to DR and demand from us to take this HUGE GULP of water is utter nonsense.

It's all part of the neo-liberal garbage that is pushed on poor countries, no borders, no nation states, exporting jobs. Ross Perot you were right!

Importing cheap labor and low skilled co-workers is not a panacea for success, especially to a country where there is already an over abundance of cheap labor and low skilled workers. Ain't right, not right.
The FALSEHOODS and MYTHS that I hear from people trying to demonize this country and it's people. Plus idiot Dominicans that are thoroughly misinformed and eat up the hype like JUNOT DIAZ. When in fact the fault lies with the Haitian government and other entities is just plain wrong.
I say give 'em the cedulas, but stop telling us who to accept and when to accept them.
If you missed the civil rights movement in the sixties and didn't get to march with Dr. King, I'm very sorry but this country has plenty of problems and if you want to involve yourself in nation building, Haiti is about an hour away by bus.
Go there and I'm sure you will be very busy.

dv8 · May 15, 2013

i did get my cedula and residency before i got married, i started the process 3 month after i have arrived here. also, i did not bother to register my marriage outside oficina del estado civil and all my documents have me as soltera. i never used the marriage as a leverage in obtaining paperwork. besides, i only pointed here to the financial side, forking out 300 dollars in one go ain't easy, even if your documents are good for 4 years.

mountainannie · May 15, 2013

Well the question, Lando, is for this particular group, if I am reading the situation right, they were born here and they HAD their cedulas which are not being renewed. Just trying to figure it out.

Certainly the greater fault is always with the complete absence of the Haitian state and the fact that majority of Haitians have no papers whatsoever. The international community really needs to help with this, as they did in getting election documents for the 2006 elections. They really need to help in getting some sort of documents for the Domnican Haitians so that more stateless people are not created.

web · May 15, 2013

dv8 said:
i think haitians are despised here because they represent everything dominicans do not want to be: very dark and very poor.

the reason why the residency process has been made so difficult now is only to make the lives of haitians more difficult. i do not believe for a second there is anything else behind it. i can pay a 100 bucks for my cedula and 200 for residency. how many haitians can fork out 300 dollars just like that?

Please PM me how I can do the cedula for $100 and residency for $200 oh yeah and the Drivers license.

Thanks!

windeguy · May 15, 2013

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Dominican government has the right to not renew the cedula of anyone who is not a citizen, correct?

The stateless Haitians should not be the Dominican Governments responsibility.

dv8 · May 15, 2013

web said:
Please PM me how I can do the cedula for $100 and residency for $200 oh yeah and the Drivers license.

what do you mean: how? this is what it costs. renovation of a cedula is 4000 pesos (100 dollars) and renovation of the residency is 8000 (200 dollars). well, i did that just before law changed so it was nothing more.
renovation of a driving license is 850 pesos or about 20 dollars. this is all official government prices.

Gitana- · May 15, 2013

Lando calrisian said:
Dear DV8 it's true what you say, you can get your papers that easily. However you are married to a Dominican dude so the law says that your entitled to it. No offense meant by that. On top of that we don't get many university educated Poles, overwhelming our services and infrastructure.
They were born here, TRUE again. But there is NO ONE stopping them from going to a Haitian consulate or embassy, or even taking a bus and going to the country of their origins, which is basically an hour away, it's ridiculous.
If they want to migrate here and so forth let the legal process work it's way. But to have MountainAnnie and the other foreign entities come here to DR and demand from us to take this HUGE GULP of water is utter nonsense.

It's all part of the neo-liberal garbage that is pushed on poor countries, no borders, no nation states, exporting jobs. Ross Perot you were right!

Importing cheap labor and low skilled co-workers is not a panacea for success, especially to a country where there is already an over abundance of cheap labor and low skilled workers. Ain't right, not right.
The FALSEHOODS and MYTHS that I hear from people trying to demonize this country and it's people. Plus idiot Dominicans that are thoroughly misinformed and eat up the hype like JUNOT DIAZ. When in fact the fault lies with the Haitian government and other entities is just plain wrong.
I say give 'em the cedulas, but stop telling us who to accept and when to accept them.
If you missed the civil rights movement in the sixties and didn't get to march with Dr. King, I'm very sorry but this country has plenty of problems and if you want to involve yourself in nation building, Haiti is about an hour away by bus.
Go there and I'm sure you will be very busy.

I hope you feel the same way about the children of your fellow Dominicans born in the US while they are here illegaly. It really pi$$es me off when I hear some Dominicans with that double standard. They can not even see Haitians are in the same situation in their country. Either children should belong to the country they were born in or not. You can't have it both ways.

mountainannie · May 15, 2013

windeguy said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Dominican government has the right to not renew the cedula of anyone who is not a citizen, correct?

The stateless Haitians should not be the Dominican Governments responsibility.

I did not know that the government could simply refuse to renew a cedula. I knew that the President could but I thought that someone had to do something that was against the law or something to have a cedula not renewed.

If a Haitian has a cedula, he is not stateless.. right? It means that he had some record of birh, some identity papers that are now being revoked. If he was born in Haiti and has a cedula (not this particular group) then he has both a Haitian birth certificate and Haitian passport.

The Dominicans do have a responsablity, i think, to provide some sort of path for the workers who are here for legalization through a workers program and visas. Seems that most of the construction workers, and most
of the agricultural workers are Haitian.

I know that there is this immigration problem all over the world where there are rich countries neighboring poor countries. And I know that the DR has a big problem being next door to Haiti. But it would be a very simple thing to actually check for all the illegal workers.. like, for example, all the Haitian workers that the Ministry of Tourism used to build the sidewalks in Las Terrenas.. Or the ones that the government used to build the highway to Samana. If the government itself is employing illegals.. how does it then get to take away cedulas from the small group of Dominico Haitianos who managed to get them?

bob saunders · May 15, 2013

mountainannie said:
I did not know that the government could simply refuse to renew a cedula. I knew that the President could but I thought that someone had to do something that was against the law or something to have a cedula not renewed.

If a Haitian has a cedula, he is not stateless.. right? It means that he had some record of birh, some identity papers that are now being revoked. If he was born in Haiti and has a cedula (not this particular group) then he has both a Haitian birth certificate and Haitian passport.

The Dominicans do have a responsablity, i think, to provide some sort of path for the workers who are here for legalization through a workers program and visas. Seems that most of the construction workers, and most
of the agricultural workers are Haitian.

I know that there is this immigration problem all over the world where there are rich countries neighboring poor countries. And I know that the DR has a big problem being next door to Haiti. But it would be a very simple thing to actually check for all the illegal workers.. like, for example, all the Haitian workers that the Ministry of Tourism used to build the sidewalks in Las Terrenas.. Or the ones that the government used to build the highway to Samana. If the government itself is employing illegals.. how does it then get to take away cedulas from the small group of Dominico Haitianos who managed to get them?

Most of the Haitian construction and agricultural worker are illegal and do not have a cedula or a working VISA. Perhaps many of the CEDULAS that the HAITIANS born in the DR have are fake or obtained under fraudulent information.

Naked_Snake · May 15, 2013

Gitana- said:
I hope you feel the same way about the children of your fellow Dominicans born in the US while they are here illegaly. It really pi$$es me off when I hear some Dominicans with that double standard. They can not even see Haitians are in the same situation in their country. Either children should belong to the country they were born in or not. You can't have it both ways.

Don't know about him, but I feel the same way about Doms in the USA. It's high time for the people here to do their damnedest towards breaking the chain of dependencies, and the first step is reclaiming their rights in their own country instead of going on and becoming a nuisance on foreign shores.

dv8 · May 22, 2013

from today's diario libre: Procurador afirma hijo de ilegales no son dominicanos - DiarioLibre.com

i am starting to think brito suffers from PMS. strange decisions lately. maybe he wants publicity?

MerengueDutchie · May 22, 2013

it's simple really

Just another case of stupid foreigners messing with the DR and imposing their way of things..

The DR and Haiti both hold citizenship by jus sanguinis not by jus soli, like the USA.

Below are links to what's what..

Jus soli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jus sanguinis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All these people have to do is go visit the Haitian embassy with their birth certificates and they must receive the Haitian documentation. Then they can apply for DR residency just like everyone else.

They hold no rights here.... shoooo off... and take your foreign sponsors with you...

The DR isn't a dog to be beld dry by Haitian ticks...

If you don't like it... too bad

mountainannie · May 22, 2013

Gitana- said:
I hope you feel the same way about the children of your fellow Dominicans born in the US while they are here illegaly. It really pi$$es me off when I hear some Dominicans with that double standard. They can not even see Haitians are in the same situation in their country. Either children should belong to the country they were born in or not. You can't have it both ways.

Actually, they can. The United States has jus solis. Any child born in the United States is automatically a US citizen regardless of the citizenship of the parents. What they cannot do is raise a hue and cry about the breaking up of families when illegals are deported.

MD// I have no foreign sponsers.. I am just following the news. I do not think that the DR should grant citizenship to children of illegals. I was just wondering how they could to refulse to renew cedulas. That was all.

MerengueDutchie · May 22, 2013

mountainannie said:
Actually, they can. The United States has jus solis. Any child born in the United States is automatically a US citizen regardless of the citizenship of the parents. What they cannot do is raise a hue and cry about the breaking up of families when illegals are deported.

MD// I have no foreign sponsers.. I am just following the news. I do not think that the DR should grant citizenship to children of illegals. I was just wondering how they could to refulse to renew cedulas. That was all.

MA,

You are a profesisional journalist with a soft spot for Haiti, which is a good thing; the Haitians can use some allies..

My comments were not specifically aimed at you; as I assumed you were aware of the jus sanguinis laws, but against all those who feel that their way (in this case jus solis) should be the accepted way and the DR should 'just accept' the hungry multitudes from Haiti to eat from their already bare cupboard..

I had not seen the argument made and so interjected it in the discussion.. specifically also mentioning that the Haitians themselves practice it even more strictly..

mountainannie · May 22, 2013

Yes, the problem for the Haitians is that their State is so very weak that most of them do not have any sort of papers at all,. no birth records, no passports. The bullk of the records are perhaps the baptismal records from the local Catholic churches, if they were baptised. All official records have to be recorded in Port au Prince.

So now there is a group that has had their cedula renewal denied. I know that one Haitian friend who is married to a Swiss has had her residencia delayed and delayed. My friend Edwin Pariason who was a former consul for Haiti has told me and her that this is simply a policy now of the government.. that they are not renewing the cedulas of Haitians. Which really seems silly. Since there are so few Haitians who have them.. really a very small percentage of the Haitians who are here. And it makes the DR just look worse.

The Haitians who have cedulas are the ones who have their own passports, are educated, have jobs.. and have the power to actually generate publicity.. like this.

Certainly, the DR has a right to not renew cedulas .. but for some sort of cause, no? And it should be across the board, no? Printed, no?

Just makes the entire issue more complicated and gives rise to more folks in limbo

MerengueDutchie · May 22, 2013

mountainannie said:
Yes, the problem for the Haitians is that their State is so very weak that most of them do not have any sort of papers at all,. no birth records, no passports. The bullk of the records are perhaps the baptismal records from the local Catholic churches, if they were baptised. All official records have to be recorded in Port au Prince.

So now there is a group that has had their cedula renewal denied. I know that one Haitian friend who is married to a Swiss has had her residencia delayed and delayed. My friend Edwin Pariason who was a former consul for Haiti has told me and her that this is simply a policy now of the government.. that they are not renewing the cedulas of Haitians. Which really seems silly. Since there are so few Haitians who have them.. really a very small percentage of the Haitians who are here. And it makes the DR just look worse.

The Haitians who have cedulas are the ones who have their own passports, are educated, have jobs.. and have the power to actually generate publicity.. like this.

Certainly, the DR has a right to not renew cedulas .. but for some sort of cause, no? And it should be across the board, no? Printed, no?

Just makes the entire issue more complicated and gives rise to more folks in limbo

The weakness of the Haitian state is not a Dominican problem.

I think for this group the answer must either be money, collateral damage or reciprocal action...

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