Haitian journalist criticizes Haitian reaction.

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GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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Fom Le nouvelliste by Rachelle Charlier Doucet

"Un sit-in convoqu? le jeudi 3 octobre devant les locaux de l'ambassade dominicaine ? P?tion-Ville n'a pas attir? la grande foule . Frileuse, la soci?t? ha?tienne n'exprime pas de solidarit? agissante.Timidit? ou indiff?rence? Si l'on peut comprendre la prudence toute diplomatique du gouvernement ha?tien qui craint de marcher sur les oeufs dominicains-rapatriements et refoulements massifs obligent- l'on peut se demander pourquoi la soci?t? ha?tienne, et en particulier les ?lites,se taisent. Serait-ce qu'elles ne se sentent pas concern?es par le sort de ces ? gens-l? ? ? A la diff?rence des Dominicains de tous ?ges et de toutes cat?gories sociales qui font entendre leur voix, prennent leur plume, sortent dans les rues et se mobilisent contre cette d?cision inique de la Cour constitutionnelle, aurions-nous perdu notre capacit? d'indignation et d'empathie ? Ou serait-ce que nos propres pratiques discriminatoires nous aveuglent au point de nous faire oublier qu'il s'agit d'une communaut? avec laquelle nous avons une filiation, un h?ritage et des liens culturels et symboliques tr?s forts."




The points made and questions asked by the writer.


A call for a sit-in in front of the DR embassy on october 3rd failed to attract a crowd.

Haitian society is failing to show solidarity.

While we understand the government's need to be diplomatic, we cannot understand the silence from Haitian society at large.

Is it because our elites and others in our society feel no concern for "these sort of people"

Have we lost our capacity to show indignation and empathy.

Or is it our own discriminatory practices against our poor masses that blinds us to the fact that we share a blood/heritage/cultural link to these haitian-dominicans.
 
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GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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There is definitely a stigma attached to DR Haitians among the Haitian population.

As the writer stated, they are seen as "these sort of people".

poor souls.
 
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Jeepito

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Dec 22, 2011
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Backwards Haiti

The fact is, Haitians never really had a capacity to show indignation or empathy. Haiti is the land of the "patripoche". The health, wealth, education and social disparity are too great. Poor Haitians in Haiti are often looked upon as societal outcasts; they are often preyed upon by the wealthy for cheap, undignified labor. And by the ruling class and countless NGOs as pawns to advance their own causes. Anytime new political leaders try to make social changes to better the education system, political and societal changes to bring about stability and help people out of poverty, well, we all know how they've ended up. Every time I go to Haiti, it takes me another ten years to cleanse my memory of such horror. Haiti reminds me of India, when your maid or houseboy dies, you hire their offspring. SICK!!!

Haitians are not shocked simply because in their own minds and history could have, and have done much worse to their own kind. No hypocrisy there!!
 
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the gorgon

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GWOZOZO said:
Fom Le nouvelliste by Rachelle Charlier Doucet

"Un sit-in convoqu? le jeudi 3 octobre devant les locaux de l'ambassade dominicaine ? P?tion-Ville n'a pas attir? la grande foule . Frileuse, la soci?t? ha?tienne n'exprime pas de solidarit? agissante.Timidit? ou indiff?rence? Si l'on peut comprendre la prudence toute diplomatique du gouvernement ha?tien qui craint de marcher sur les oeufs dominicains-rapatriements et refoulements massifs obligent- l'on peut se demander pourquoi la soci?t? ha?tienne, et en particulier les ?lites,se taisent. Serait-ce qu'elles ne se sentent pas concern?es par le sort de ces ? gens-l? ? ? A la diff?rence des Dominicains de tous ?ges et de toutes cat?gories sociales qui font entendre leur voix, prennent leur plume, sortent dans les rues et se mobilisent contre cette d?cision inique de la Cour constitutionnelle, aurions-nous perdu notre capacit? d'indignation et d'empathie ? Ou serait-ce que nos propres pratiques discriminatoires nous aveuglent au point de nous faire oublier qu'il s'agit d'une communaut? avec laquelle nous avons une filiation, un h?ritage et des liens culturels et symboliques tr?s forts."




The points made and questions asked by the writer.


A call for a sit-in in front of the DR embassy on october 3rd failed to attract a crowd.

Haitian society is failing to show solidarity.

While we understand the government's need to be diplomatic, we cannot understand the silence from Haitian society at large.

Is it because our elites and others in our society feel no concern for "these sort of people"

Have we lost our capacity to show indignation and empathy.

Or is it our own discriminatory practices against our poor masses that blinds us to the fact that we share a blood/heritage/cultural link to these haitian-dominicans.
Click to expand...

so, GWOZOZO, what have YOU done? i mean, after encountering you in a thread, it is obvious that you have been educated. so what are you now? one of these Haitians who distances himself from his less fortunate countrymen, because he has now arrived?

i lived in the USA, and i saw it. as soon as the Haitians could put enough money together, it was off to Rockland County for them. running away as far as possible from the brethren in Brooklyn, to New City and Shrub Oak.

so, with the full welter of a formidable intellect available to you, tell us what you think would help the sociopolitical situation in Haiti, and tell us what is your contribution. lamentations are meaningless.
 
D

delite

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Oct 17, 2006
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the gorgon said:
so, GWOZOZO, what have YOU done? i mean, after encountering you in a thread, it is obvious that you have been educated. so what are you now? one of these Haitians who distances himself from his less fortunate countrymen, because he has now arrived?

i lived in the USA, and i saw it. as soon as the Haitians could put enough money together, it was off to Rockland County for them. running away as far as possible from the brethren in Brooklyn, to New City and Shrub Oak.

so, with the full welter of a formidable intellect available to you, tell us what you think would help the sociopolitical situation in Haiti, and tell us what is your contribution. lamentations are meaningless.
Click to expand...

I've encountered Gwozozo before in a Haitian thread and his attitude is consistently the same. I gave him credit for consistency though. You and I would never know, I guess, for not being Haitians :)
 
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mountainannie

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Well Jeepito, I get your point.

And true enough .. I read reports that when Cadet Jean R. Cadet Restavek Organization - Home went to Haiti to talk about the restaveks, many of the people in the audience saw nothing wrong with it, because.. after all.. the children were given shelter and food.. It seemed absurb to them, i guess, that they should also be expected to pay for their schooling? treat them as members of the family? In the border regions here, there are many young Haitian women who are working in Domnican houses for room and board.. well, who would not? if you had neither?

Here is a chart that is used to show the differences in income inequality which is used by NGOs and others when trying to compare nations..List of countries by income equality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia the lower the number the more evenly distributed the incomes. This gives a picture of the spread of money within a country and a bit of a picture of the contrast between Haiti and the DR.

(it also gives an interesting picture of the developed countries before and after taxes)

But the Haitian Diaspora is generous as the Dominican diaspora is. (although many Dominicans plan to come home to retire which Haitians do not).

They send home an amount that, I believe, exceeds a quarter of the government budget. I will have to check but it is a very hefty amount.

Yes, a quarter US$360M more in Haiti remittances this year | Trinidad Express Newspaper | Business Express 1.4 billion which is a lot of money.

The Domnican diaspora sent home $3.4 billion in 2010 which is even more money.
 
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Jeepito

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The situation in Haiti is hopeless, I've seen it first hand and from within. No one man or movement can redress centuries of abuse, discrimination, injustice, thievery; historically supported by countries and people who have a vested interest in seeing it fail.

The time has passed I believe for Haiti. Haitians are the only solution for Haiti, however, short of a full blown political/social revolution without foreign intervention; "one step forward and three steps back" should replace "L'union fait la force".
 
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the gorgon

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Jeepito said:
The situation in Haiti is hopeless, I've seen it first hand and from within. No one man or movement can redress centuries of abuse, discrimination, injustice, thievery; historically supported by countries and people who have a vested interest in seeing it fail.

The time has passed I believe for Haiti. Short of a full blown political/social revolution; "one step forward and three steps back" should replace "L'union fait la force".
Click to expand...

i am glad you said it, not i. stick a fork in Haiti; it is done.
 
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pkaide1

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Aug 10, 2005
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Jeepito said:
The situation in Haiti is hopeless, I've seen it first hand and from within. No one man or movement can redress centuries of abuse, discrimination, injustice, thievery; historically supported by countries and people who have a vested interest in seeing it fail.

The time has passed I believe for Haiti. Haitians are the only solution for Haiti, however, short of a full blown political/social revolution without foreign intervention; "one step forward and three steps back" should replace "L'union fait la force".
Click to expand...

I only see one solution. They should become a French or Canadian colony. Or even better, there is plenty of empty land in Texas, well you can see where I am going with this.
 
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Jeepito

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But the Haitian Diaspora is generous as the Dominican diaspora is. (although many Dominicans plan to come home to retire which Haitians do not)..[/QUOTE said:
For good reason Mountainanie,

Having lived anywhere outside Haiti, I don't think anyone in their right mind will want to, especially if you're retired with few assets and limited income. The Haitians that do return, are the "Tigueres" and more likely offsprings or relatives of the minority that have plundered and continue suck Haiti and Haitians of their resources. If you cannot afford a Cadillac health plan that includes medevac to Miami you'll be playing with fire. In Haiti you have to be your own water, electric, sewer, phone company. Imagine having a chronic disease like diabetes, hypertension. A simple flesh wound in Haiti can lead you to an early grave. Haiti is a lawless land with no roads, no services, no rules, every man for himself. Unless you want to go and take advantage of the poor young girls and boys there, hire a maid and houseboy for the equivalent of $U.S.50.00 a month, work them six days a week and brag about it to your friends in New York, take the law into your own hands, go around forging land deeds and birth certificates so that you can scam, cheat and steal from people just to survive. Why would anyone in their right mind want to subject themselves to that?
Click to expand...
 
G

Gurabo444

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Wait, I seriously thought Haiti was way better than what you guys describe here. Isn't one of GWOZOZO's favorite phrases "those poor souls that venture to the east" or something like that, I've always wonder why those poor souls in the east almost never decide to return to the west. One thing I've mentioned here before and that I don't get, is why are most nationalistic Haitians and pro-Haitians living outside of Haiti? I still don't know of anyone in the forum that actually lives there. Ohh well let me keep enjoying my presidente, and the first Aguilas game that's on right now.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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the gorgon said:
so, GWOZOZO, what have YOU done? i mean, after encountering you in a thread, it is obvious that you have been educated. so what are you now? one of these Haitians who distances himself from his less fortunate countrymen, because he has now arrived?

i lived in the USA, and i saw it. as soon as the Haitians could put enough money together, it was off to Rockland County for them. running away as far as possible from the brethren in Brooklyn, to New City and Shrub Oak.

so, with the full welter of a formidable intellect available to you, tell us what you think would help the sociopolitical situation in Haiti, and tell us what is your contribution. lamentations are meaningless.
Click to expand...



You are the only one lamenting.

Your juvenile whining has already resulted in the closing of a previous thread.

I will not entertain your tantrums on this one. I have a low tolerance for stupidity.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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delite said:
I've encountered Gwozozo before in a Haitian thread and his attitude is consistently the same. I gave him credit for consistency though. You and I would never know, I guess, for not being Haitians :)
Click to expand...

Of course my friend.

The little insignicant DR/Haiti issue is complicated by Haitian leaders lacking courage and vision.
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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Jeepito said:
The situation in Haiti is hopeless, I've seen it first hand and from within. No one man or movement can redress centuries of abuse, discrimination, injustice, thievery; historically supported by countries and people who have a vested interest in seeing it fail.

The time has passed I believe for Haiti. Haitians are the only solution for Haiti, however, short of a full blown political/social revolution without foreign intervention; "one step forward and three steps back" should replace "L'union fait la force".
Click to expand...

The time for full blown political/social revolution has passed.

No country in the caribbean will be able to do any such revolution.

Haiti will simply slowly...and yes with the help of advanced countries make its way out of the hole.

No one is expecting overnight miracles.
 
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the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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GWOZOZO said:
You are the only one lamenting.

Your juvenile whining has already resulted in the closing of a previous thread.

I will not entertain your tantrums on this one. I have a low tolerance for stupidity.
Click to expand...

i take that to mean you have done nothing, besides sitting on an internet forum and bawling. well, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. go do something, and stop looking for sympathy. i have seen your fellow countrymen in NY. they get an education, and a decent job, and suddenly they forget where they came from. it becomes too hard a job to go and give back even a few years, what with so many Prada bags to buy.

hey, it is your country , so you get to treat it like a stepchild. knock yourself out. you have the luxury of generous people all over the world pitching in to help, when people like you are at the shopping mall.

how's that for stupidity?
 
G

GWOZOZO

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Dec 7, 2011
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pkaide1 said:
I only see one solution. They should become a French or Canadian colony. Or even better, there is plenty of empty land in Texas, well you can see where I am going with this.
Click to expand...

You are not going anywhere with this except to fantasy land.

Why don't every poor basket case in africa and elsewhere become french and canadian and british colonies?

Why does not DR join Puerto-Rico as a commonwealth to get a higher standard of living and free entry into the USA?

Haiti will stay Haiti...a country slowly moving from misery to a poor but improving state.

In the meanwhile it will continue to dump its most destitutes on the neighbor DR.

And there is really not a damn thing anyone of us can do about it...since we are not willing to face the elites who have an economic interest in the current situation.
 
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