Haiti's RESTRICTIVE citizenship by blood (Jus sanguinis)

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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I tried twice to post this in the Haitian citizenship thread, and the system said I did, but for whatever reasons neither post has appeared.

According to Haiti's 1987 constitution (and as far as I know the newest one does NOT change it), Haiti not only restrict citizenship at birth to those with a Haitian parent. The Haitian parent must be NATIVE-born, that is, NOT a naturalized Haitian.

It is of course possible to become a naturalized Haitian, but the naturalization does not seem to carry over to the descendants.

Somehow, those scandalized by the fact that according to the Dominican Constitutional Court, the children of illegal residents do not qualify for Dominican citizenship at birth seem to have no problem with the fact that the children of Dominicans (or any foreigners) born in Haiti cannot get Haitian citizenship, even if the parents are legal permanent residents, and it seems even if the parents are naturalized Haitian citizens.

Evidently consistency and fairness are not a high priority for some.

See below.
This is from the 1987 constitution.

TITRE II
De la Nationalit? Ha?tienne
ARTICLE 10:

Les r?gles relatives ? la Nationalit? Ha?tienne sont d?termin?es par la Loi.

ARTICLE 11:
Poss?de la Nationalit? Ha?tienne d'origine, tout individu n? d'un p?re ha?tien ou d'une m?re ha?tienne qui eux-m?mes sont n?s Ha?tiens et n'avaient jamais renonc? ? leur nationalit? au moment de la naissance.


ARTICLE 12:
La Nationalit? Ha?tienne peut ?tre acquise par la naturalisation.

....


Note that Haitian citizenship is only granted to those WHO ARE BORN IN HAITI TO Either a Haitian mother or father...

in other words, jus sangre and jus solis.. ...
....All of the children who have been born here in the Dominican Republic since 1987 to Haitian mothers and fathers do not have the rights of citizenship in Haiti except by naturalilzation.

Sorry but you are completely wrong.
Here is an "official" translation at Georgetown University:
ARTICLE 11:
Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.

Those, they are ruling out children whose parents are NATURALIZED Haitians...those are the ones who do not get citizenship at birth...

Nowhere is birth IN Haiti mentioned as a factor one way or another.

Haiti: Constitution, 1987
 

bronzeallspice

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Thank you for posting about the constitution and history matters pertaining to the DR and Haiti.

Very informative and it's appreciated.
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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Thank you for posting about the constitution and history matters pertaining to the DR and Haiti. Very informative and it's appreciated.
Thanks. I feel I am just doing my part. There is just too much damaging misinformation on the subject. My main motivation to post here is to get the truth out on the Internet, so that optimistically people "googling" the subject, perhaps even members of the media, pick it up.
Misinformation in conversational boards like this is actually expected. But when major newspapers are writing editorials containing falsehood, that is a serious problem. I hope things will change for the better.
 

LTSteve

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Jul 9, 2010
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The problem cuts both ways but I don't think there are a lot of Dominican Citizens trying to get into Haiti illegally. Most of the problem seems to fall on Haiti's shoulders because a large percentage of Haitians coming into the DR are undocumented to begin with. This is a problem that the Haitian gov does not seem to want to tackle. In the past they would just rather have people go to the DR to live. I think the DR was pushed to enforce this constitutional law because of Haiti's inability or inactivity to get there citizens documented correctly.

LTSteve
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Yes, Virgo, I had corrected myself in a later post.. The issue that I had posted in a Haitian list serv is whether the children of Haitians who were not born in Haiti are entitled to citizenship in Haiti.. ie,. if the mother or father was born here? My reading of the Haitian Constitution has always been that the grandchildren were not entitled to citizenship.

The DR had always said that Haitians born here had the rights of citizenship .. but I think that there was a change in the Haitian constitutions between 1965 and 1987 which made Haitian citizenship more restrictive.

And, of course, if the parents are LEGAL citizens of another coutnry.. then .. well, up til now, that meant they had renounced Haitian citizenship. But now Haiti has dual citizenship, I believe, so things are different.

very complicated. But it is going to have to be sorted out since the children born to Haitians here who do not have LEGAL residency.. ie.. ceudlas? right? are not going to be entitled to citizenship? or does the Constitution mean passports and citizenship?
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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Yes, Virgo, I had corrected myself in a later post.. The issue that I had posted in a Haitian list serv is whether the children of Haitians who were not born in Haiti are entitled to citizenship in Haiti.. ie,. if the mother or father was born here? My reading of the Haitian Constitution has always been that the grandchildren were not entitled to citizenship. .... But it is going to have to be sorted out since the children born to Haitians here who do not have LEGAL residency.. ie.. ceudlas? right? are not going to be entitled to citizenship? or does the Constitution mean passports and citizenship?
Well you can read the same text I do...That Haitian constitution says nothing about birthplace that I can see, for or against anything...Being born inside/outside Haiti seems to have no relevance whatsoever to Haitian citizenship...Haitians have Haitian children EVERYWHERE...Non-Haitians have non-Haitian children EVERYWHERE...it's that simple. The restriction is that naturalization does not carry over to the next generation...If they did or didn't change this in the brand new constitution I cannot tell...Perhaps it has not yet made it to the Internet...

The ONLY foreigners whose DR-born children are entitled to Dominican citizenship at birth are those with LEGAL PERMANENT residency (regardless of the parents' origin)..That is, no tourists, no students, no migrant workers, etc...no illegal residents of course.

Foreigners with LEGAL PERMANENT residency are only affected if their Dominican-born children were born before the parents got LEGAL PERMANENT residency...those children are NOT Dominicans...It doesn't mean they'll be deported tomorrow...they are just not Dominicans.

If you can read Spanish you can try downloading the text of the TC ruling...It has lots of interesting background information before the actual ruling.
The ruling by itself is posted by Listin at:
Sentencia TC/0168/13 Tribunal Constitucional - listindiario.com
 

mountainannie

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here is the Georgetown translation.. "Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.
"
I do not think this is about being naturalized.. but about being BORN in HAITI, just as it says.
So I do think that issue of jus solis figures into to the issue of Haitian citizenship. Up until the most recent constitutional changes,, which are still at the printers.. and while the rules on dual citizenship have been passed bthey have not been published. this was not a big issue. Most of the diaspora simply abandoned their Haitian citizenship for the citizenship in their new countries.

but there is hardly a line for people who WANT Haitian citizenship. Except for the folks in the Diaspora who want to vote AND hold their foreign passports.. which the folks in Haiti do not want to let them do. Hence the delays at the printer of the new constitution.
 

mountainannie

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ok, Virgo .. here is the amended new Constitution

L?article 11 se lit d?sormais comme suit :
Poss?de la nationalit? ha?tienne d?origine, tout individu n? d?un p?re ha?tien ou d?une m?re ha?tienne qui eux-m?mes sont n?s Ha?tiens et n?avaient jamais renonc? ? leur nationalit? au moment de la naissance.
La renonciation de la nationalit? s?entend d?une d?claration officielle devant un tribunal ha?tien, conform?ment ? la loi.

Ha?ti - Constitution : Texte officiel des amendements de la constitution de 1987 - HaitiLibre.com, Nouvelles d'Haiti, L'actualit? d'Haiti, Haiti News, d?cryptage, enjeux, r?actions, la voix du peuple Ha?tien

so, yes, the parents would had to have renounced their Haitian citizenship before a Haitian court in order for them to be sripped of their citizenship (before it was to take another passport)

So .. now we are in agreement.. the children of Haitians, are Haiti... no matter where they are born.
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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Nothing has changed in this regard.
The parents must be: n?s Ha?tiens = nacidos haitianos = native-born Haitians.
You were the one translating "n?s Ha?tiens" as "born INSIDE Haiti". It does not mean that.
"n?s Ha?tiens" means Haitian BY BIRTH, that is, not naturalized. In Spanish, haitianos DE NACIMIENTO.
 

mountainannie

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yes, I think that there has been a change.. in that the older version had them as not holding any other citizenship and the new one has them as not having renounced Haitian citizenship before a Haitian Court.. if you compare the two.. the 1987 and 1987 amended.. you will see the difference.

This paves the way for the dual nationals to vote in Haiti. It was a change that was ten years in the making.
 

mountainannie

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The Embassy of Haiti in the Dominican Republic (DR) reminds Haitian residents of the Dominican Republic, that they can obtained from the 4 Haitian consulates in neighboring Republic : arahona, Dajabon, Higuey and Santiago extracts of birth certificates as well as birth certificates for children under two years.

The Embassy recalls that the service established on September 4, also aims to combat fraud in the documents of identity and allow its Haitian nationals, to ave direct access to the National Archives of Haiti.

The Embassy urged its citizens not to use the services of some specialized networks in the falsification of birth certificates.

HL/ HaitiLibre Haiti - Social : Haitian birth certificate available, in the 4 consulates of Haiti in DR - HaitiLibre.com, Haiti News, The haitian people's voice
 

Virgo

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Oct 26, 2013
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yes, I think that there has been a change.. in that the older version had them as not holding any other citizenship and the new one has them as not having renounced Haitian citizenship before a Haitian Court.. if you compare the two.. the 1987 and 1987 amended.. you will see the difference. This paves the way for the dual nationals to vote in Haiti. It was a change that was ten years in the making.
I would suggest that you actually read both texts. The dual nationality issue is NOT in art. 11, but rather in other article which explicitly prohibited dual nationality, and is now totally gone.
ARTICLE 15: La double nationalit? ha?tienne et ?trang?re n'est admise dans aucun cas.
ARTICLE 15: Dual Haitian and foreign nationality is in no case permitted.

That is gone now: "Les articles 12.1, 12.2, 13, 14 et 15 de la Constitution de 1987 sont abrog?s."

A restriction that parents be born INSIDE Haiti is included in NEITHER version, as you had argued. Both version require parents to be non-naturalized Haitians (n?s Ha?tiens = haitianos de nacimiento = native-born Haitians).
That is the point of this thread. In that sense, there is no change.
 
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Activists with an agenda will always construe anything to their view, I'm guilty of it and MA is guilty of it. That is why she tells her wards to remain on Dominican soil and keep pushing and IGNORE the laws, psssssssssst no te preocupes, todo el mundo lo hace.....
Ay k lindo