Junot Diaz Words Regarding Ruling

L

LindseyKaufman

Silver
Aug 21, 2007
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Posted on Facebook 7 hours ago.


The struggle against the Supreme Court ruling in the Dominican Republic continues (a ruling which more or less denationalizes people of Haitian descent.) The hatred and xenophobia that this ruling has unleashed against Haitian and Haitian-Dominican and Dominican communities is incredible. I just returned from Santo Domingo and the fear in the communities was palpable. The intimidation against critics of the "sentencia" was everywhere too. The best part is how many people are organizing and speaking out against this inhumane judicial act and how well the Diaspora is standing up to elite powers in the Dominican Republic and their ideologues. We in the Diaspora know what it is like to be despised and stigmatized as immigrants, to be victims of unjust laws. Those of us who are critics of the sentencia are being told "we don't understand", that "we didn't read the sentencia," that we are "traitors", that we "hate the Dominican Republic" and that our supposed "lack of Dominicanidad" disqualifies us from being able to say anything. What obfuscatory nonsense. We have a ruling order in the DR that cannot tolerate dissent, that wishes to hide its crime under the combined weight of intimidation, silence and the gibberish of its paid supporters; we have a ruling order in the DR that wants to denationalizes not only people of Haitian descent but its critics as well. All these attacks are bull**** attempts to distract from the real crime--the sentencia itself which has been condemned widely. All of us who are believers need to keep fighting against the sentencia and what it represents and we need to keep organizing and we need to show those clowns in power in the DR that there is another Dominican tradition--based on social justice and human dignity and a true respect for the awesome contributions that our immigrants make everywhere.
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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What is wrong with a country who wants to abide by its Constitution and not have
outside actors like this Junot Diaz who has been spreading his propaganda and
lying by stating that these are Dominican-Haitians when in reality they've falsified
documents and obtained Dominican citizenship of which they are not entitled to?

Well now since he and other organizations have promulgated this lie now it needs
to be seen if these so called"Dominican-Haitians" can produce their birth certificates
and prove to everyone that they are legit by showing their roots.(connections)

An 83% of the Dominican population are in favor of the TC ruling.
 
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Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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While I read his book, and might read another one, I have to disagree with his comment that the sentence (168-13), "denationalizes" anyone. All persons born to a Haitian are, by the Haitian Constitution, Haitians. That is a fact. What the decision does do is oblige these illegal aliens and their offspring to be registered and provided with documentation. As I understand the National Plan of Normalization ("Regularizaci?n"), these persons will be fast-tracked for legal residency or citizenship through a naturalization process.

Junot D?az can have his say.

There are incredible problems:
1) Tell a Haitian that it costs US$1000 to get a residence
2) Ask a Haitian to get a birth certificate--in Haiti
3) Ask a Haitian to get a Certificate of Good Behavior--in Haiti
4) Ask a Haitian his name!!! And then ask for proof!!

While these seem like small problems, in a nation that had much of its archives wiped out in the earthquake, and where bookkeeping is perhaps questionable at best, it is a lot to ask.

As long as the Dominican government can smooth the way for a few tens of thousands to be legalized in the Plan, without damaging their human rights, I am willing to bet that in perhaps three years, there will be a lot better understanding of the reach of this law.

Junot D?az needs to have some patience.

And remember, folks, this applies to ALL foreigners....
Thing is if you ask a German, or Canadian or American for a birth certificate it appears and the same for any other vital information.


HB
 
P

pauleast

*** I love DR1 ***
Jan 29, 2012
2,837
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bronzeallspice said:
What is wrong with a country who wants to abide by its Constitution and not have
outside actors like this Junot Diaz who has been spreading his propaganda and
lying by stating that these are Dominican-Haitians when in reality they've falsified
documents and obtained Dominican citizenship of which they are not entitled to?

Well now since he and other organizations have promulgated this lie now it needs
to be seen if these so called"Dominican-Haitians" can produce their birth certificates
and prove to everyone that they are legit by showing their roots.(connections)

An 83% of the Dominican population are in favor of the TC ruling.
Click to expand...

Immigration issues always elicit strong emotions, on both sides of the issue. Class and race usually enter the topic. The only thing more complex than discussing immigration , is using "promulgate" in a sentence, correctly. Nicely done.
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
11,009
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Hillbilly said:
While I read his book, and might read another one, I have to disagree with his comment that the sentence (168-13), "denationalizes" anyone. All persons born to a Haitian are, by the Haitian Constitution, Haitians. That is a fact. What the decision does do is oblige these illegal aliens and their offspring to be registered and provided with documentation. As I understand the National Plan of Normalization ("Regularizaci?n"), these persons will be fast-tracked for legal residency or citizenship through a naturalization process.

Junot D?az can have his say.

There are incredible problems:
1) Tell a Haitian that it costs US$1000 to get a residence
2) Ask a Haitian to get a birth certificate--in Haiti
3) Ask a Haitian to get a Certificate of Good Behavior--in Haiti
4) Ask a Haitian his name!!! And then ask for proof!!

While these seem like small problems, in a nation that had much of its archives wiped out in the earthquake, and where bookkeeping is perhaps questionable at best, it is a lot to ask.

As long as the Dominican government can smooth the way for a few tens of thousands to be legalized in the Plan, without damaging their human rights, I am willing to bet that in perhaps three years, there will be a lot better understanding of the reach of this law.

Junot D?az needs to have some patience.

And remember, folks, this applies to ALL foreigners....
Thing is if you ask a German, or Canadian or American for a birth certificate it appears and the same for any other vital information.


HB
Click to expand...

In this I agree that they are not stateless.


Hillbilly, Haitians in the DR do not need to go to Haiti to obtain birth certificates.
They just go to the Haitian embassy in the DR to obtain their documents.

Also costs for the process of regulating has been reduced considerably.
 
malko

malko

Campesino !! :)
Jan 12, 2013
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Guys ask any campisino in dr for a birth cetificate if they are born before 1990. There is like 12 and half people who have the same birth certificate.
Buy ure own passport, choose ure name, place of birth, date of birth.... a real false identity delivered by dr goverment.
Anyway like 6 or 7 years ago we needed her birth certificate ( the real one ). Go to place of birth, campo next door. No trace of her, the number is one that was used for 10 diffrent people in register ( !!!!!). We had to pay to get situation arranged, with the use of a lawyer. Now in dr u have to proove u were really born. Even if u have 7 brother and sisters, and 26 half ones and everyone knows u in evrey surrounding campo.

People in my campo have one name they use and one name on a birth certificate ( diffrent family name too ). And this is in 2013. If it wasnt for corrupt officials that set things right again.......

And now someone comes out and says 83 % of dominicans approve this bill. Come on.... there isnt 83 % who can write let alone understand the political baloney in the bill.
Get real u should know better that all this is powder in dominicans eyes. Blame everything on haitians so pueblo focus on them and not on corruption, no luz, no agua, ****e state roads, alcoohol, diabetics, failing education system, pollution, drugs.......
but oh I nearly forgot its the haitians fault......same as national debt and earthquakes might I add:lick::lick:
 
B

beastwood

New member
Jun 30, 2011
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bronzeallspice said:
What is wrong with a country who wants to abide by its Constitution and not have
outside actors like this Junot Diaz who has been spreading his propaganda and
lying by stating that these are Dominican-Haitians when in reality they've falsified
documents and obtained Dominican citizenship of which they are not entitled to?

Well now since he and other organizations have promulgated this lie now it needs
to be seen if these so called"Dominican-Haitians" can produce their birth certificates
and prove to everyone that they are legit by showing their roots.(connections)

An 83% of the Dominican population are in favor of
Click to expand...
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
11,009
2
38
malko said:
Guys ask any campisino in dr for a birth cetificate if they are born before 1990. There is like 12 and half people who have the same birth certificate.
Buy ure own passport, choose ure name, place of birth, date of birth.... a real false identity delivered by dr goverment.
Anyway like 6 or 7 years ago we needed her birth certificate ( the real one ). Go to place of birth, campo next door. No trace of her, the number is one that was used for 10 diffrent people in register ( !!!!!). We had to pay to get situation arranged, with the use of a lawyer. Now in dr u have to proove u were really born. Even if u have 7 brother and sisters, and 26 half ones and everyone knows u in evrey surrounding campo.

People in my campo have one name they use and one name on a birth certificate ( diffrent family name too ). And this is in 2013. If it wasnt for corrupt officials that set things right again.......

And now someone comes out and says 83 % of dominicans approve this bill. Come on.... there isnt 83 % who can write let alone understand the political baloney in the bill.
Get real u should know better that all this is powder in dominicans eyes. Blame everything on haitians so pueblo focus on them and not on corruption, no luz, no agua, ****e state roads, alcoohol, diabetics, failing education system, pollution, drugs.......
but oh I nearly forgot its the haitians fault......same as national debt and earthquakes might I add:lick::lick:
Click to expand...

That's different. Dominicans can prove their roots, ties even if they may have a different birth
certificate this is about proving your roots.

Yes, a survey was done and even though many Dominicans may not know how to read and write but they sure as
hell can listen and hear the news media. Plus no Dominican needs to understand much to know that
they don't want or need an influx of illegal Haitians in the country.

Nothing of the things you listed has been blamed on Haitians, what has been said is that the country
cannot move forward until this problem(mass of illegals) is taken care of.
 
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C

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
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bronzeallspice said:
That's different. Dominicans can prove their roots, ties even if they may have a different birth
certificate this is about proving your roots.
Click to expand...
If they don't have a birth certificate, like so many Dominicans, how?

Nothing of the things you listed has been blamed on Haitians, what has been said is that the country
cannot move forward until this problem(mass of illegals) is taken care of.
Click to expand...
The REAL obstacle to the country's development is corruption - which is also partly to blame for this situation. True patriots would be demanding that ALL corrupt politicians and high-ranking government and military officials are brought to justice.
 
L

LTSteve

Gold
Jul 9, 2010
5,449
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LindseyKaufman said:
Posted on Facebook 7 hours ago.


The struggle against the Supreme Court ruling in the Dominican Republic continues (a ruling which more or less denationalizes people of Haitian descent.) The hatred and xenophobia that this ruling has unleashed against Haitian and Haitian-Dominican and Dominican communities is incredible. I just returned from Santo Domingo and the fear in the communities was palpable. The intimidation against critics of the "sentencia" was everywhere too. The best part is how many people are organizing and speaking out against this inhumane judicial act and how well the Diaspora is standing up to elite powers in the Dominican Republic and their ideologues. We in the Diaspora know what it is like to be despised and stigmatized as immigrants, to be victims of unjust laws. Those of us who are critics of the sentencia are being told "we don't understand", that "we didn't read the sentencia," that we are "traitors", that we "hate the Dominican Republic" and that our supposed "lack of Dominicanidad" disqualifies us from being able to say anything. What obfuscatory nonsense. We have a ruling order in the DR that cannot tolerate dissent, that wishes to hide its crime under the combined weight of intimidation, silence and the gibberish of its paid supporters; we have a ruling order in the DR that wants to denationalizes not only people of Haitian descent but its critics as well. All these attacks are bull**** attempts to distract from the real crime--the sentencia itself which has been condemned widely. All of us who are believers need to keep fighting against the sentencia and what it represents and we need to keep organizing and we need to show those clowns in power in the DR that there is another Dominican tradition--based on social justice and human dignity and a true respect for the awesome contributions that our immigrants make everywhere.
Click to expand...

You right a nice editorial but it is total BS. The DR has the right to regulate who gets to come into the country and stay legally. The problem is that the Haitian gov would love nothing more to have 1000s of it's citizens continue to enter the DR and utilize it's health care and any social services available. If the Haitian Gov had any idea of how to document these people than part of the problem would be solved. Haiti has done nothing to take care of their own and wants everyone else to give up their assets to take care of this. They can then wash their hands and say see, the DR doesn't want to help those in need. Haiti is so disfunctional that now this becomes a DR problem. The DR will sort it all out but in the mean time place the blame squarely on the shoulders of those in Haiti who have not stepped up to take care of their own. Stop turning the DR constitional ruling into the be all blame game

LTSteve
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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Chirimoya said:
If they don't have a birth certificate, like so many Dominicans, how?


The REAL obstacle to the country's development is corruption - which is also partly to blame for this situation. True patriots would be demanding that ALL corrupt politicians and high-ranking government and military officials are brought to justice.
Click to expand...

Then that's a problem that the Haitian Gov't will have to provide for them because they
entered the country without one(illegally) it is not the DR gov't responsibility. They
need to meet the DR half way in this. Everything will not be given on a silver platter.

Plus they are entitled to Haitian citizenship so they are not stateless. So there's no problem.

Oh yes, Dominicans have protested about the corruption and yes, have demanded that
many be brought to justice.

But this issue is about illegals which must be taken care of just like all other
countries are doing. The DR is no different.
 
Last edited:
F

Frank the Tank

Gold
May 12, 2005
8,564
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LindseyKaufman said:
Posted on Facebook 7 hours ago.


The struggle against the Supreme Court ruling in the Dominican Republic continues (a ruling which more or less denationalizes people of Haitian descent.) The hatred and xenophobia that this ruling has unleashed against Haitian and Haitian-Dominican and Dominican communities is incredible. I just returned from Santo Domingo and the fear in the communities was palpable. The intimidation against critics of the "sentencia" was everywhere too. The best part is how many people are organizing and speaking out against this inhumane judicial act and how well the Diaspora is standing up to elite powers in the Dominican Republic and their ideologues. We in the Diaspora know what it is like to be despised and stigmatized as immigrants, to be victims of unjust laws. Those of us who are critics of the sentencia are being told "we don't understand", that "we didn't read the sentencia," that we are "traitors", that we "hate the Dominican Republic" and that our supposed "lack of Dominicanidad" disqualifies us from being able to say anything. What obfuscatory nonsense. We have a ruling order in the DR that cannot tolerate dissent, that wishes to hide its crime under the combined weight of intimidation, silence and the gibberish of its paid supporters; we have a ruling order in the DR that wants to denationalizes not only people of Haitian descent but its critics as well. All these attacks are bull**** attempts to distract from the real crime--the sentencia itself which has been condemned widely. All of us who are believers need to keep fighting against the sentencia and what it represents and we need to keep organizing and we need to show those clowns in power in the DR that there is another Dominican tradition--based on social justice and human dignity and a true respect for the awesome contributions that our immigrants make everywhere.
Click to expand...

Blah, blah, blah. More sensationalized fiction from this author.
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
11,009
2
38
LTSteve said:
You right a nice editorial but it is total BS. The DR has the right to regulate who gets to come into the country and stay legally. The problem is that the Haitian gov would love nothing more to have 1000s of it's citizens continue to enter the DR and utilize it's health care and any social services available. If the Haitian Gov had any idea of how to document these people than part of the problem would be solved. Haiti has done nothing to take care of their own and wants everyone else to give up their assets to take care of this. They can then wash their hands and say see, the DR doesn't want to help those in need. Haiti is so disfunctional that now this becomes a DR problem. The DR will sort it all out but in the mean time place the blame squarely on the shoulders of those in Haiti who have not stepped up to take care of their own. Stop turning the DR constitional ruling into the be all blame game

LTSteve
Click to expand...

Excellent post! If I could give it 10 likes I would.
 
A

Aguaita29

Silver
Jul 27, 2011
2,619
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Hillbilly said:
Junot D?az can have his say.

There are incredible problems:
1) Tell a Haitian that it costs US$1000 to get a residence
2) Ask a Haitian to get a birth certificate--in Haiti
3) Ask a Haitian to get a Certificate of Good Behavior--in Haiti
4) Ask a Haitian his name!!! And then ask for proof!!

HB
Click to expand...

The NGO?s that love them so much should be able to help them fix their situation.
 
T

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
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0
bronzeallspice said:
Then that's a problem that the Haitian Gov't will have to provide for them because they
entered the country without one(illegally) it is not the DR gov't responsibility. They
need to meet the DR half way in this. Everything will not be given on a silver platter.

Plus they are entitled to Haitian citizenship so they are not stateless. So there's no problem.

Oh yes, Dominicans have protested about the corruption and yes, have demanded that
many be brought to justice.

But this issue is about illegals which must be taken care of just like all other
countries are doing. The DR is no different.
Click to expand...

bronzie, as you have noticed, i stay clear of this citizenship situation, because there is too much passion involved. however, i must take you to task about Dominicans and corruption. they talk a good talk, but they do not walk the walk.

don't believe me? let's revisit this after the next election. see who is going to be the next president.
 
bronzeallspice

bronzeallspice

Live everyday like it's your last
Mar 26, 2012
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the gorgon said:
bronzie, as you have noticed, i stay clear of this citizenship situation, because there is too much passion involved. however, i must take you to task about Dominicans and corruption. they talk a good talk, but they do not walk the walk.

don't believe me? let's revisit this after the next election. see who is going to be the next president.
Click to expand...

I don't want to vear this thread in another direction. This issue is about illegals.

I am more aware of the corruption than you may possibly know.

Yes, ALL politicians in every country do not walk the walk or talk the walk.That's why
they say politics is dirty.

The DR is not anymore corrupt than other countries.
 
A

Aguaita29

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Jul 27, 2011
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Gringos here should start a fund for them! Put your money, free time and resources where your mouth is! I know some here do help Haitians but they are not enough..... more should jump in!!!
 
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