gringo exodus?

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dv8

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interesting article in puerto plata habla today:
Graciela Fermin denuncia extranjeros huyendo a la delincuencia y la inseguridad han abandonado sus viviendas

graciela fermin, who is a PO lawyer and a diputada from PRD says that lots of foreigners in POP area are fleeing DR because of high crime rates and poor situation regarding justice system.

she says they arrived to DR believing it was paradise and after realizing it is hell, they are going back: esos extranjeros que se han marchado a sus pa?ses trajeron todo lo que ten?an para establecerse en Puerto Plata, creyendo que era el para?so, pero al darse cuenta que era un infierno retornaron a sus lugares de origen.

she mentioned cofresi, costambar, munoz, sosua and cabarete and said that some of the properties that have been abandoned by gringo owners are now illegally occupied while others have been "sold" using falsified paperwork.

your thoughts?
 
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william webster

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remeber 'southward bound'.... gone

just to point to one/


and gone ....FAST... sold the car here and flew the coop
 
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dv8

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Derfish said:
I doubt that there were ever a dozen gringos owning property and living in Munoz.
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suncamp DR is in munoz and there are few gringos in that area. there is also anew housing project going up in there, for middle class families. i do agree, however, that is it a dump, especially past the cemetery where barrio housing starts.
 
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drescape24

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I believe and for every gringo leaving there is another to replace them. I feel that with all the House Hunters shows and the other programs give a false sense of reality. The newer people aren't doing the homework and learning the in and outs before making a commitment. Then the dreams turns and they leave sooner that expats before.
I happy to hear local are talking about the issue. At least it's a start if nothing else.
 
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flyinroom

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Aug 26, 2012
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The people who have sought out a sort of refuge in the Dominican Republic do not form a homogeneous group.

"El refugio".

It is reminiscent of the American classic "naked city". Back in the early days of t.v. in North America.


"There are eight million stories in the naked city; this has been one of them."

[video=youtube;YNRf7Dg0lMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNRf7Dg0lMg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
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ohmmmm

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I have been here for over four years and I am happy. It is a foreign land and its a land of much poorer people than for example the USA so there are plenty of problems to work through here that will not occur in the USA. If I meet a new person, I usually suggest they move into a nice apartment building or rent in a nice secured condo building where there is a generator and where most of the work is taken care of through the monthly assessments. It makes for an easier time here. Moving and buying a house right away can give a person instant culture shock that can be way too much for many people...
 
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Expat13

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As Pichardo would say, the gringos can leave and it will not stop the awesome, robust machine that is the DR economy. Tourism is increasing, but only behind security walls of PC. The rest of the country be damned. How sustainable is the tourism sector if all they do is pay an airlines and an AI which in most cases is a foreign owned hotel chain? They really don't care, its just about who will be next in office and how can we align with them and join in on the theft. With the crime, the lack of accountability, the garbage thrown on the streets and in the sea- you must ask what percentage of the people here actually care about their country?
 
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the gorgon

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ohmmmm said:
I have been here for over four years and I am happy. It is a foreign land and its a land of much poorer people than for example the USA so there are plenty of problems to work through here that will not occur in the USA. If I meet a new person, I usually suggest they move into a nice apartment building or rent in a nice secured condo building where there is a generator and where most of the work is taken care of through the monthly assessments. It makes for an easier time here. Moving and buying a house right away can give a person instant culture shock that can be way too much for many people...
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most of the foreigners who move here have two overarching concerns; can they get adequate professional medical care in the event they get a debilitating illness, and are they physically safe. i have never met anyone who is so self absorbed that they get distressed if the supermarket does not have Kobe beef on the day they decide to shop. they have been able to adjust to the everyday hassles and unavailability of things which they expect to be a normal part of life.

what they cannot adjust to is the rash of robberies, violent attacks, and murders of foreigners, which is at epidemic proportions. i would hazard a guess that the majority of foreigners who move here are coming from regions where this kind of activity is not normative. not too many of them have moved here from inner city neighborhoods, where gunshots all night, and corpses all morning, are part of the daily existence. they find it hard to adjust to, and feel an outsized sense of vulnerability, with good reason. it is only going to get worse. the material condition of the rank and file is not going to improve. prices keep going up, and i am amazed that there are not many more people dying of hunger. real wages have declined in the last decade, and suffering is on the rise. foreigners represent a very easy target of opportunity for the destitute and the desperate.

the exodus is going to accelerate. it has to. yes, more foreigners will continue to move here, but there will come a tipping point where they will wonder if it is worth risking life and limb, when they could just as well move to Panama.
 
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Expat13

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the gorgon said:
most of the foreigners who move here have two overarching concerns; can they get adequate professional medical care in the event they get a debilitating illness, and are they physically safe. i have never met anyone who is so self absorbed that they get distressed if the supermarket does not have Kobe beef on the day they decide to shop. they have been able to adjust to the everyday hassles and unavailability of things which they expect to be a normal part of life.

what they cannot adjust to is the rash of robberies, violent attacks, and murders of foreigners, which is at epidemic proportions. i would hazard a guess that the majority of foreigners who move here are coming from regions where this kind of activity is not normative. not too many of them have moved here from inner city neighborhoods, where gunshots all night, and corpses all morning, are part of the daily existence. they find it hard to adjust to, and feel an outsized sense of vulnerability, with good reason. it is only going to get worse. the material condition of the rank and file is not going to improve. prices keep going up, and i am amazed that there are not many more people dying of hunger. real wages have declined in the last decade, and suffering is on the rise. foreigners represent a very easy target of opportunity for the destitute and the desperate.

the exodus is going to accelerate. it has to. yes, more foreigners will continue to move here, but there will come a tipping point where they will wonder if it is worth risking life and limb, when they could just as well move to Panama.
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Its all true but until every last expat moves and tourism plummets, then wait a few years after when the economy goes to ****, starvation and crime rampant, then they will realize what they ignored for years bit them in the ass as other similar countries had more respect for their visitors as well their country. Actually as I write this I realize they will never realize it, they will just blame the government!
 
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Kipling333

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I must confess that after more than 12 years living in the east and in zona colonial , I am having many more thoughts now than before about leaving the DR . I live with and know hundreds of Dominicans and all are pleasant to talk to and have a drink with but there is still a barrier between them and me .. I see it that I am always being asked for a little finanial help which I give and receive the minimal of thanks but if I need a favour such as doing shopping if I am unwell ,they are all busy .As aretired person I think I would prefer to live in Colombia or Thailand or Malaysia where the courtesy of the people is much more established , It is the selling up that is the hassle that keeps me here
 
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the gorgon

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Expat13 said:
As Pichardo would say, the gringos can leave and it will not stop the awesome, robust machine that is the DR economy. Tourism is increasing, but only behind security walls of PC. The rest of the country be damned. How sustainable is the tourism sector if all they do is pay an airlines and an AI which in most cases is a foreign owned hotel chain? They really don't care, its just about who will be next in office and how can we align with them and join in on the theft. With the crime, the lack of accountability, the garbage thrown on the streets and in the sea- you must ask what percentage of the people here actually care about their country?
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ignore PICHARDO. if there is a mass exodus of foreigners, the economy of the DR will collapse overnight. that is beyond debate.
 
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dv8

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also, some people leave because their situation has taken a bad twist. many gringos here have not planned for the future. they never got health insurance and now they find it impossible to meet medical bills so they prefer to go back home where treatment is free or government funded. some arrived here as a couple and when one passes away for natural reasons they have no one else left here.

still, i think the concern for safety is growing. lots of people i know are installing alarm systems. you can also sense this on dr1 with advice regarding driving, going out or even casual relationships.

sadly, some are/were unable to leave in time, as can be seen from few reports about suicides, particularly on the north coast.
 
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santiagodude

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Nov 25, 2012
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So sad....Reminds me of the European couple that was trying to sell their home in the Sosua area, so they could move back to their country, and the wife was tragically killed before they achieved their goal of leaving.
 
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the gorgon

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dv8 said:
also, some people leave because their situation has taken a bad twist. many gringos here have not planned for the future. they never got health insurance and now they find it impossible to meet medical bills so they prefer to go back home where treatment is free or government funded. some arrived here as a couple and when one passes away for natural reasons they have no one else left here.

still, i think the concern for safety is growing. lots of people i know are installing alarm systems. you can also sense this on dr1 with advice regarding driving, going out or even casual relationships.

sadly, some are/were unable to leave in time, as can be seen from few reports about suicides, particularly on the north coast.
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twenty years ago, if someone got killed in Sosua, a few foreigners would hear about it, and tell their friends. by the time the matter was no longer hot news, 50 people had discussed it. fast forward to today. now we have the internet. a guy gets strangled in Boca Chica, and dv8 has it on DR1 for thousands of readers to see, sometimes with gruesome images of the corpses. then you look at the pictures, and you say; darn, i saw that guy in La Sirena just yesterday. it is all too immediate. then you really begin to think; "there, but for the grace of God, go I"

i was just foolin about, dv8.
 
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ohmmmm

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So if you feel that way Gorgon and DV8...are you guys moving? So far none of my friends have had any serious problems such as what you are talking about and I have not either. I am out and about nearly every day too. I get along well with my Dominican neighbors. But only on a casual basis. I come from Chicago. Read the newspapers there in Chicago... Full of crime, corruption and such. That is what the newspapers print... the bad stuff. If things are this bad for you then adios... But that is not everyone's experience.
 
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the gorgon

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ohmmmm said:
So if you feel that way Gorgon and DV8...are you guys moving? So far none of my friends have had any serious problems such as what you are talking about and I have not either. I am out and about nearly every day too. I get along well with my Dominican neighbors. But only on a casual basis. I come from Chicago. Read the newspapers there in Chicago... Full of crime, corruption and such. That is what the newspapers print... the bad stuff. If things are this bad for you then adios... But that is not everyone's experience.
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you did not seem to read my posting with very much insight, or you are not familiar with who i am. i am a Bronx boy; i don't scare easy. besides, i am also Jamaican, and i have seen more than my share of toughs in my life. no need to bid me farewell. you will scare out of here long before me.
 
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