Dominicanize Yourself: Deception and Subterfuge

Jan 3, 2003
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Quote Originally Posted by messineymar2014

I am a straight shooter. Having to deal with so many deceptive people ,
has made my stay in the DR extremely stressful.

There are ex-pats such as Messineymar. They are upfront, honest, straight shooter types. They are used to deals being done square, looking right in the eye where you mean what you say and say what you mean. Unfortunately, such is not always the case within the DR. I see a dichotomy between ex-pats raised in the strong Calvinist work ethic typical of Anglo-Saxon cultures where hard work and honesty is the means to achieve versus our Spanish Catholic social structure where deception and subterfuge was and is the modus operandi.

This is not to say that every transaction between two in the DR involves this. It most certainly does not. But until you are sure of the other, you must dominicanize yourself. I would say Dominicans on average, not all or else the word pairguayo wouldn't exist, are psychologically light years ahead of ex-pats, tourists, foreign residents. I view the usual hokey pokey bloated belly Carnival cruise line tourist as prime meat for centuries of psychologically hardened Dominicans. It seems to be easy pickings for these vultures trained in carrion.

The greatest danger lies in relationships in which the female initially is actually interested or feigns interest to obtain a material advantage and/or business transactions involving money. Ex-pats have been on the losing side of these two transactions, exchanges. It has been as a result of being psychological neophytes in an environment where deception and subterfuge are the norm. The devastating emotional, psychological, economical toll on both Dominican and ex-pat alike is stratospheric and demands concrete answers to. What is to be done about it?

LESSON NUMBER-1
Allow me to Dominicanize you. At the point of intersection in an exchange between you and another, you must assume the other will try to deceive you. You must think quick. You corner them into an outcome out of which there are only two possible answers of which one is clearly the lie. The Dominican or dominicanized ex-pat will know you have cornered him/her into two possible outcomes and he/she also knows you know that one answer is clearly a lie. He/she has no choice but to tell you the truth. This skill takes time to hone but you can do it.

You assume that if there is a benefit that the Dominican, Dominican foreign resident or Dominicanized ex-pat can obtain from his exchange with you, he will certainly lie. Once again if the transaction represents any type of benefit to the other, you automatically assume subterfuge and deceit. It is at that point that you begin to craft your own deception within to counter his or hers. Don't rush into this. Take your time. The crafting of a well planned deception takes time. Remember you must protect your emotions and money always.

We'll get into more on this with concrete examples. As any skill, it takes time, experience and examples to learn. Trial and error always helps to set you on the right path. You can dominicanize yourself to survive in those waters. Don't feel this is a cumbersome process. In time you will enjoy getting the upper hand on the other and the other not expecting it. In time, the others will cease trying knowing you can corner them over and over again into truth and lie.
 

hombre987

New member
Nov 17, 2013
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0
Are you Dominican, an expat with Foreign Resident or a Dominicanized Ex-Pat? How long have you lived in the country? Do you live in the D.R.? Just trying to figure out where you authority on such matters comes from.

There are ex-pats such as Messineymar. They are upfront, honest, straight shooter types. They are used to deals being done square, looking right in the eye where you mean what you say and say what you mean. Unfortunately, such is not always the case within the DR. I see a dichotomy between ex-pats raised in the strong Calvinist work ethic typical of Anglo-Saxon cultures where hard work and honesty is the means to achieve versus our Spanish Catholic social structure where deception and subterfuge was and is the modus operandi.

This is not to say that every transaction between two in the DR involves this. It most certainly does not. But until you are sure of the other, you must dominicanize yourself. I would say Dominicans on average, not all or else the word pairguayo wouldn't exist, are psychologically light years ahead of ex-pats, tourists, foreign residents. I view the usual hokey pokey bloated belly Carnival cruise line tourist as prime meat for centuries of psychologically hardened Dominicans. It seems to be easy pickings for these vultures trained in carrion.

The greatest danger lies in relationships in which the female initially is actually interested or feigns interest to obtain a material advantage and/or business transactions involving money. Ex-pats have been on the losing side of these two transactions, exchanges. It has been as a result of being psychological neophytes in an environment where deception and subterfuge are the norm. The devastating emotional, psychological, economical toll on both Dominican and ex-pat alike is stratospheric and demands concrete answers to. What is to be done about it?

LESSON NUMBER-1
Allow me to Dominicanize you. At the point of intersection in an exchange between you and another, you must assume the other will try to deceive you. You must think quick. You corner them into an outcome out of which there are only two possible answers of which one is clearly the lie. The Dominican or dominicanized ex-pat will know you have cornered him/her into two possible outcomes and he/she also knows you know that one answer is clearly a lie. He/she has no choice but to tell you the truth. This skill takes time to hone but you can do it.

You assume that if there is a benefit that the Dominican, Dominican foreign resident or Dominicanized ex-pat can obtain from his exchange with you, he will certainly lie. Once again if the transaction represents any type of benefit to the other, you automatically assume subterfuge and deceit. It is at that point that you begin to craft your own deception within to counter his or hers. Don't rush into this. Take your time. The crafting of a well planned deception takes time. Remember you must protect your emotions and money always.

We'll get into more on this with concrete examples. As any skill, it takes time, experience and examples to learn. Trial and error always helps to set you on the right path. You can dominicanize yourself to survive in those waters. Don't feel this is a cumbersome process. In time you will enjoy getting the upper hand on the other and the other not expecting it. In time, the others will cease trying knowing you can corner them over and over again into truth and lie.
 

DRDone

Member
Sep 29, 2014
293
2
18
Excuse my language, but to the OPs post: Malarkey!!
So Dominicans are these hardened psychological masters that have adjusted in to their environment as master predators.
The classic definition of Dominicanizing oneself, is to give oneself a lobotomy, so be careful when you say people should Dominicanize themselves.
So these Dominicans who can't register on an IQ test and say Mi Amor are actually brilliant.
Then let me ask you this, after they have scammed $1 Million off of an ex-pat, why do they blow it within a few hours at the local Texaco buying everyone in site Rum and Chicken.
Have you ever gone to see the place of the brilliant Women that have scammed their ex-husband out of the 5000 square foot house. Well that house should now be condemned with all the relatives trashing the place and not a piece of furniture or anything else that hasn't been stolen or sold off.
And keep in mind how much these ex-dominicans flourish in the US. I like to leave a couple of bucks tip at the hotel for the housekeeper (spend a lot of my time in hotels), but if it is a Dominican - no tip for you. Just kidding, I wouldn't stay at a hotel with a Dom housekeeper, I'll stay at clean places with people that actually do their job.
 
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donP

Newbie
Dec 14, 2008
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You can live here quite well without dominicanizing yourself.
All right, one needs to adapt and find a 'modus operandi' between trying to get buddy-buddy with the locals (Chip's way...)
and despise them.
It's the same everywhere, though with different gaps and mismatches.

I for one stick to my behaviour, (European) ethics and beliefs.
Why should I change because of a mere 10 million people somewhere in the Caribbean? ....

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


donP
 

mofongoloco

Silver
Feb 7, 2013
3,002
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there is somethiing to be said about the very diferent waays the colonies evolved. The spanish crown was much more involved and took their King's fifth for a much longer time. The Spaniards also continued a form of nobility in its earliest years of coloniization. the pilgrims of Plymouth were more or less cromwellians.
 

Naked_Snake

Bronze
Sep 2, 2008
1,812
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there is somethiing to be said about the very diferent waays the colonies evolved. The spanish crown was much more involved and took their King's fifth for a much longer time. The Spaniards also continued a form of nobility in its earliest years of coloniization. the pilgrims of Plymouth were more or less cromwellians.

Yeah, but a good chunk of the colonists of the Chesapeake were cavaliers (and the form slavery took over there is a proof of this), so there's that. And let's not get started about slavery in the West Indian plantations, from which the Southern colonies/states served as offshoots. F.ex.: The Carolinas would be founded by the second sons of the Barbadian plantation nobility in the 1670's.
 

santiagodude

Member
Nov 25, 2012
513
2
18
LESSON NUMBER-1
Allow me to Dominicanize you. At the point of intersection in an exchange between you and another, you must assume the other will try to deceive you. You must think quick. You corner them into an outcome out of which there are only two possible answers of which one is clearly the lie. The Dominican or dominicanized ex-pat will know you have cornered him/her into two possible outcomes and he/she also knows you know that one answer is clearly a lie. He/she has no choice but to tell you the truth. This skill takes time to hone but you can do it.

You assume that if there is a benefit that the Dominican, Dominican foreign resident or Dominicanized ex-pat can obtain from his exchange with you, he will certainly lie. Once again if the transaction represents any type of benefit to the other, you automatically assume subterfuge and deceit. It is at that point that you begin to craft your own deception within to counter his or hers. Don't rush into this. Take your time. The crafting of a well planned deception takes time. Remember you must protect your emotions and money always.

We'll get into more on this with concrete examples. As any skill, it takes time, experience and examples to learn. Trial and error always helps to set you on the right path. You can dominicanize yourself to survive in those waters. Don't feel this is a cumbersome process. In time you will enjoy getting the upper hand on the other and the other not expecting it. In time, the others will cease trying knowing you can corner them over and over again into truth and lie.

Too much work...I simply avoid criminals and liars.......
 

irishpaddy

Bronze
Sep 3, 2013
1,174
468
83
I have checked the rooms at hotels before I book...but have never asked ..."what nationality is your housekeeper"...I need to travel more....
Excuse my language, but to the OPs post: Malarkey!!
So Dominicans are these hardened psychological masters that have adjusted in to their environment as master predators.
The classic definition of Dominicanizing oneself, is to give oneself a lobotomy, so be careful when you say people should Dominicanize themselves.
So these Dominicans who can't register on an IQ test and say Mi Amor are actually brilliant.
Then let me ask you this, after they have scammed $1 Million off of an ex-pat, why do they blow it within a few hours at the local Texaco buying everyone in site Rum and Chicken.
Have you ever gone to see the place of the brilliant Women that have scammed their ex-husband out of the 5000 square foot house. Well that house should now be condemned with all the relatives trashing the place and not a piece of furniture or anything else that hasn't been stolen or sold off.
And keep in mind how much these ex-dominicans flourish in the US. I like to leave a couple of bucks tip at the hotel for the housekeeper (spend a lot of my time in hotels), but if it is a Dominican - no tip for you. Just kidding, I wouldn't stay at a hotel with a Dom housekeeper, I'll stay at clean places with people that actually do their job.
 

DRDone

Member
Sep 29, 2014
293
2
18
I have checked the rooms at hotels before I book...but have never asked ..."what nationality is your housekeeper"...I need to travel more....

I put it in my preferences. I check King Bed, High Floor and No Dominicans. Odd that they have it as an option, but I guess enough people have requested it.
 

Naked_Snake

Bronze
Sep 2, 2008
1,812
222
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I put it in my preferences. I check King Bed, High Floor and No Dominicans. Odd that they have it as an option, but I guess enough people have requested it.

Guess it must be therapeutic for you to vent your frustrations with everything Dominican related. Otherwise, it looks pretty masochistic on your part to be posting on a Dominican related site while having such an unrelenting hatred for this country, don't you think?
 

DRDone

Member
Sep 29, 2014
293
2
18
Guess it must be therapeutic for you to vent your frustrations with everything Dominican related. Otherwise, it looks pretty masochistic on your part to be posting on a Dominican related site while having such an unrelenting hatred for this country, don't you think?

Hopefully it's therapeutic, but who knows, a bit from column A and a bit from column B.
 

Naked_Snake

Bronze
Sep 2, 2008
1,812
222
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There are ex-pats such as Messineymar. They are upfront, honest, straight shooter types. They are used to deals being done square, looking right in the eye where you mean what you say and say what you mean.

Wonder what he thinks about his ancestral Haiti, cuz' by my estimation, those ones aren't any better, and the results of their national/cultural vices are pretty evident for all to see. Or as don Elito used to say: "Por sus frutos los conocer?is".
 

messineymar2014

New member
Sep 28, 2013
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Haiti is not part of this debate. I don't live in Haiti. I live in the DR.
I absolutely love the DR. However , some of the societal norms in the DR, makes living on this beautiful island extremely stressful.
 

messineymar2014

New member
Sep 28, 2013
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Wonder what he thinks about his ancestral Haiti, cuz' by my estimation, those ones aren't any better, and the results of their national/cultural vices are pretty evident for all to see. Or as don Elito used to say: "Por sus frutos los conocer?is".

By my estimation, you are being hypersensitive. I am not trying to demonize the DR.
I am just stating some factual aspects about life in the DR.
 

b?rbaro

New member
Jul 9, 2014
154
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...I see a dichotomy between ex-pats raised in the strong Calvinist work ethic typical of Anglo-Saxon cultures where hard work and honesty is the means to achieve versus our Spanish Catholic social structure where deception and subterfuge was and is the modus operandi...

hard work and honesty, deception and subterfuge... Weber's thesis have long been abandoned
 

cjp2010

New member
Mar 25, 2013
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I feel like I have "Dominicanized" myself. It was a goal of mine when I moved here as I felt that I could not live here comfortably without doing it. Dominicanizing oneself has a lot more to do with learning and understanding the local culture and how people go about surviving here. It doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do but you need to know how the local everyday people that don't come here with loads of foreign currency go about their life.

Having done that I don't mind at all dealing with and negotiating with Dominicans. I can honestly say I get better outcomes more often dealing with Dominicans than dealing with the ex-pats with a few exceptions. Dominicans will give in and negotiate much faster once they know you are not a total idiot. Ex-pats will just keep spewing the lie about how they have something so much better than everyone else.

Two things always make me laugh about these debates. The first is that ex-pats and tourists who freshly arrive here keep acting like this is so horrible here and the people here are so much different than anywhere else. Having traveled the world over II can say there is plenty of good and bad everywhere. And if you have money there is someone waiting to take it from you. The scams range from very simple to outright brilliant with tons of planning to just simply not doing the job right. I don't find the people here to be that much worse than anywhere else.

I have caught people trying to scam me here as well as everywhere else. As I said if you have money someone will try to take it. The key to me is to not look or act like you have it. The idiots who walk around with gold and diamonds falling off of them get no pity from me. Maybe I'm a little more street sensitive because I grew up in bad neighborhoods before I was lucky enough to get a football scholarship.

The second thing that makes me laugh is when the ex-pats that always say how smart they are and repeat a little of what I said about being street-smart and being well-traveled then come and tell you that a Dominican that they consider to be a very stupid person scammed them out of so much money. If they were that dumb and fooled you that good then you can't be as smart as you think you are.

The best rule I have ever learned is simply "don't trust anybody". Period. End of story. I don't care if you are Dominican, Haitian, Gringo, whatever. If I don't know you I assume you are trying to scam me. Given time you can prove otherwise but I my initial assumption is not to trust you.

So whenever entering any arrangement, negotiation, etc. I make sure from the get-go that I have an out and that I am protected or I don't go forward. I assume you are trying to steal from me or somehow take advantage of me.

Those who can't imagine living like that will continue to be taken advantage of and drive themselves crazy. For me, I live very happily like this. It isn't hard to do and in the end you don't feel like you are getting screwed every day. The penalty for this is I don't have 100 people that I call my friend. But I don't need 100 friends. I have five good ones. And I think most of those who say they have 100 friends don't even have 5 good ones and will realize it when it matters the most.

So all I can say is keep your guard up wherever you are and good luck.
 

Naked_Snake

Bronze
Sep 2, 2008
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By my estimation, you are being hypersensitive. I am not trying to demonize the DR.
I am just stating some factual aspects about life in the DR.

If I would have been oversensitive, I would have come guns blazing not only days ago when you made those statements (which you'll notice, I'm not denying in their entirety) but I would have been as well more biting to that DRDone guy up there or even my compatriot the OP (with which I share a lot of opinions in the social/economic front). However, I totally take issue with your portrayal of us as the absolute worst, which we obviously aren't. So my question to you and the gringos here still stands, if you absolutely abhor the people here, yet still love the island, what is stopping you folks from making your tent on its western third, where the people are supposedly oh so so obviously better in your view?
 
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