The cost of Haitians to the Dominican Republic services

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airgordo

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THAT part will never be seen by people riding the DR bashing wagon...is nice that BBC has had the decency to actually do this.
 
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the gorgon

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airgordo said:
THAT part will never be seen by people riding the DR bashing wagon...is nice that BBC has had the decency to actually do this.
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stop with the melodrama. nobody denies that illegal immigration is a drain on ANY country that has to receive illegal immigrants.
 
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ramesses

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I am confused. Illegal immigration is never good for a country. It is expensive and not good for security.

I have always thought we were talking about people who have been here for generations or have been brought in with the blessing of the government for work. People the government always knew were there but never did anything about and actually benefitted from.

I don't think many people here think someone can just walk in to another country and not expect to be kicked back out.
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

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ramesses said:
I am confused. Illegal immigration is never good for a country. It is expensive and not good for security.

I have always thought we were talking about people who have been here for generations or have been brought in with the blessing of the government for work. People the government always knew were there but never did anything about and actually benefitted from.

I don't think many people here think someone can just walk in to another country and not expect to be kicked back out.
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Actually we are talking about all manners of illegal Aliens here. I think the government is actually got a somewhat humane system in place to regularize those that are workers brought in under government contract and a way to give their children and grandchildren a path to citizenship.
Then there are all the illegals that just bribed a border guard or snuck in.
Then there are those that did the above but also had children in the DR.
It's a dogs breakfast complicated by a country ( Haiti) next door that doesn't care about any of these people, except it doesn't want them back, so it makes no effort to help the situation.
IT IS A PROBLEM THAT WILL NEVER BE SOLVED COMPLETELY TO EVERYBODIES' SATIFACTION.
 
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ramesses

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bob saunders said:
It's a dogs breakfast complicated by a country ( Haiti) next door that doesn't care about any of these people, except it doesn't want them back, so it makes no effort to help the situation.
IT IS A PROBLEM THAT WILL NEVER BE SOLVED COMPLETELY TO EVERYBODIES' SATIFACTION.
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I am not sure why the Haitian government would even care. What is their incentive to bring these people back? Moral, yeah but that is it as far as I see it. I think everyone can agree the Haitian government is not a properly functioning entity.

I agree, no matter the outcome, not everyone will be happy.
 
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ju10prd

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ramesses said:
I am confused. Illegal immigration is never good for a country. It is expensive and not good for security.

I have always thought we were talking about people who have been here for generations or have been brought in with the blessing of the government for work. People the government always knew were there but never did anything about and actually benefitted from.

I don't think many people here think someone can just walk in to another country and not expect to be kicked back out.
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There were about 150,000 before 2004
 
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the gorgon

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ramesses said:
I am not sure why the Haitian government would even care. What is their incentive to bring these people back? Moral, yeah but that is it as far as I see it. I think everyone can agree the Haitian government is not a properly functioning entity.

I agree, no matter the outcome, not everyone will be happy.
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we have a basic disagreement here, ramesses. i don?t believe that Haiti has a government.
 
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dv8

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i think DR is preparing to answer questions regarding the costs of haitian immigration. just few days ago they run an article about haitian HIV/AIDS patients being treated in DR.
3,858 haitianos reciben tratamiento contra el SIDA en la R. Dominicana | AlMomento.net
so it is not also women giving birth but the medical costs associated with haitian population reach further. apart from terminal condition like AIDS there are also accidents, treatment of wounds being result of violence and so on.

and speaking of violence there are also costs of the judicial system: pursuing and sentencing and then the prison costs. i have not looked into this but i wonder what percentage of the inmates are illegal immigrants.
 
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airgordo

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the gorgon said:
stop with the melodrama. nobody denies that illegal immigration is a drain on ANY country that has to receive illegal immigrants.
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Of course you CAN'T deny that, that will be like denying that gravity...i will make it easy for you, HOW many articles have been written about DR and its policies to haitians on the last month? How many of them provide stuff like THIS article? do the math
 
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dv8

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dv8 said:
and speaking of violence there are also costs of the judicial system: pursuing and sentencing and then the prison costs. i have not looked into this but i wonder what percentage of the inmates are illegal immigrants.
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to answer myself, according to the last prison census, quoting 2011 data:
Cabe resaltar que del 6.1% de nacionales extranjeros privados de libertad, la nacionalidad que m?s abunda es la de los nacionales haitianos, quienes representan un 4.2%, al haber 843. Lo que refleja un aumento porcentual de un 1%, respecto al porcentaje consignado en el censo del a?o 2006, en cuanto a los nacionales haitianos, ya que hab?a un 3.2%, de un total de 5.9%.
Sin embargo, lo m?s preocupante de este aspecto analizado, no es el aumento del 1%, sino m?s bien, lo que esto significa en t?rmino de cantidad de internos haitianos ingresados al sistema penitenciario nuestro, ya que de 285 ingresados en el 2006, en el 2011 dicha cifra casi se triplico a 843, lo que debe sensibilizar a las autoridades penitenciarias, y a los encargados de aplicar la pol?tica criminal del Estado Dominicano, debido a que esta problem?tica refleja la carencia de oportunidades de empleo formales e informales para ?stos poder mantenerse, as? como el ?xodo masivo de los mismos al territorio nacional.
 
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airgordo

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ramesses said:
I am confused. Illegal immigration is never good for a country. It is expensive and not good for security.

I have always thought we were talking about people who have been here for generations or have been brought in with the blessing of the government for work. People the government always knew were there but never did anything about and actually benefitted from.

I don't think many people here think someone can just walk in to another country and not expect to be kicked back out.
Click to expand...

That is a small part of the massive amount of people that are here illegally, those you refer to are the sugar cane cutters, they don't go above 40,000 or 50,000 according to their own organization and that is counting all their offspring, those are the only people that have an entitlement because it was indeed the DR gov that brought them and chose not to return them properly, they have NOTHING to do with the mass wave of people that begun coming here under the eyes of Traitor Leonel Fernandez. Juliana Deguis, the lady refred to on 168-13 is offspring of those sugar cane cutters
 
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ju10prd

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airgordo said:
Of course you CAN'T deny that, that will be like denying that gravity...i will make it easy for you, HOW many articles have been written about DR and its policies to haitians on the last month? How many of them provide stuff like THIS article? do the math
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I agree.

Actually someone queried information on healthcare expenditure with figures of 40% on Haitians mentioned as I recall.

Only BBC have done the investigation it appears.

The cost is hurting the Dominican poor.
 
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ramesses

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airgordo said:
That is a small part of the massive amount of people that are here illegally, those you refer to are the sugar cane cutters, they don't go above 40,000 or 50,000 according to their own organization and that is counting all their offspring, those are the only people that have an entitlement because it was indeed the DR gov that brought them and chose not to return them properly, they have NOTHING to do with the mass wave of people that begun coming here under the eyes of Traitor Leonel Fernandez. Juliana Deguis, the lady refred to on 168-13 is offspring of those sugar cane cutters
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But is this not what we are talking about? I think most people have agreed that people that have come on their own, especially since the earthquake, should go or work with the immigration system.
 
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the gorgon

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airgordo said:
Of course you CAN'T deny that, that will be like denying that gravity...i will make it easy for you, HOW many articles have been written about DR and its policies to haitians on the last month? How many of them provide stuff like THIS article? do the math
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let us say that a million articles have been written about the DR and this debacle. no..let me make that 2 million.

that should make it easy for you to find me one which says that illegal immigration is not a drag on the DR economy.
 
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ju10prd

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the gorgon said:
let us say that a million articles have been written about the DR and this debacle. no..let me make that 2 million.

that should make it easy for you to find me one which says that illegal immigration is not a drag on the DR economy.
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All the US journalist are writing about Haitians and Haiti.

Nobody is writing from the Dominican stand point or even asking the questions.

BBC Mundo does this and asks what is the cost and balances the facts and links you to it's other articles.

Imbalance by English speakers mainly USA against a Spanish speaking country by many that have been around Haiti and were part of the waste of billions in aid and creation of a non state.
 
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the gorgon

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ju10prd said:
All the US journalist are writing about Haitians and Haiti.

Nobody is writing from the Dominican stand point or even asking the questions.

BBC Mundo does this and asks what is the cost and balances the facts and links you to it's other articles.

Imbalance by English speakers mainly USA against a Spanish speaking country by many that have been around Haiti and were part of the waste of billions in aid and creation of a non state.
Click to expand...

the title of the thread is about the cost of illegal immigration to the Dominican economy. i really am not addressing anything else. i am trying to focus here. i know that some articles have been fair, some unfair, some ignorant, some cynical, some hopeful, you name it.

i am still looking for the one that denies that the illegal immigration is a drain on the DR economy. if you know of one, just point me to it, and we can put this puppy to bed.
 
A

airgordo

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ramesses said:
But is this not what we are talking about? I think most people have agreed that people that have come on their own, especially since the earthquake, should go or work with the immigration system.
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I can tell you based on the 100+ articles i have read from all over the world that no one clarifies that, they just throw all haitians like all were sugar cane cutters and have all entitlements, they just put them all on one bag.
 
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