ShoeShine Kids - A MaxxJaxx Bitch

MaxxJaxx

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Jan 1, 2002
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I get really pissed when I see someone (local or a tourist) use the services of ShoeShine boys during a school day. When we tell these kids that 5 peso's today is worth more than an education tomorrow, we rob them of their future.

If you need to get your shoes shined during a weekday use an adult.

If you want to support the Shoeshine Kids do it during the evenings or weekends when they wouldn't have been in school.

There is nothing wrong with supporting free enterprise but we must also teach these kids that an education has value as well.

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Just another MaxxJaxx Bitch
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Maybe you should talk to the kids!

If you talk to the kids, you will "probably' find out that they go to school in the afternoons or evenings.
Parents and kids know the value of education, but oftentimes can not afford the costs. That is why there are so many groups helping kids with utensils and uniforms.

HB
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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You are not in Kansas anymore!

Your concern is important,however, when we judge an "activity"in the Dominican Republic by US or European standards we err.As has been pointed out,the schools here have "shifts",usually 2,sometmes 3! Thats why you see students in their uniforms walking the streets after 9pm.This uniform is important,no uniform,you can,t go to school.Parents provide the uniform,and you have to buy the books too.They change the books every year ,so you can,t pass the books to a younger sibling! The public schools are just a place to send your kids for 3 or 4 hours a day.they learn absolutely nothing! Even the poorest families try to find 500 pesos or so a month to send their children to a Catholic,or private school where you learn "absolutely nothing"but pay for the priveledge!This system works great! Turns out lots of uneducated dominican "underclass" workers.Workers who get paid about $150 US dollars per month.Workers who can,t send their children to school,workers who have children "shining shoes"so the family can eat! So please have the kid shine your shoes no matter what time it is!If you really want to be nice buy him a shirt or some pants or shoes,or an ice cream.but....please don,t use foreign idiology here! Criss Colon
 

richard

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Jan 1, 2002
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Right Hillbilly. Although education is ostensibly free and compulsory, uniforms and supplies, both prerequisites for attending school cost 600-700 pesos per year ane often unaffordable amount for poor families. The Sosua Kids association is a voluntary organization set up by a group of ex-pats in Sosua to provide for these kids. No one is paid , there is no over head, so all donations go to the children. Donations may be made at the Britannia Pub in Sosua. As of As of November thirty-eight children were receiving support. The web page is below. Please when tourists are in Sosua, stop in and make a donation. It is a way of giving back to the Dominican people who treat us so well when we are in the DR.





http://www.geocities.com/sosuakids/
 

richard

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Jan 1, 2002
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One other thought. I certainly don't get "pissed" when I see tourists or locals using the services of a shoeshine boy. I encourage tourists to use their services. These boys aren't spending their earnings in video arcades for the most part they are contributing to their families income.
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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This brings up another related subject, many American's attitudes towards "sweat shops". We should not be judging these by US standards either. In some countries the pay that these folks get is more than the average and working conditions, while poor by US standards are high according to the local standards...in fact if it weren't for these jobs a lot of those people would starve. The same is true of child labor...in some countries children do have to work to help support their families. Yes we would rather have them going to school but it is not always a choice.

It wasn't that long ago that many of the poor in the US had to quit school to help support their families. My grandfather left school after the 7th grade to help on the family farm. He did however keep learning and was eventually School Board President. Child labor...how many farm children in this country used to have to work on the farms doing hard, dirty, sweaty work to help put food on the table. We've come a long way in this country but we should not forget it was not always so easy.
 

x_man

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Jan 1, 2002
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Criss,There you have it. The Plight of the third
world, the vicious circle of no education
and poverty. This is not funny but rather
depressing. What could a vacationeer like me
do about this??? Those people must somehow help themselves. My few pesos would not even
be a drop in the bucket.
 

richard

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Jan 1, 2002
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No xman your pesos will help. Last year the sosua kids association had only 17 kids in school so in a year the number has more than doubled.
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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[B]Criss Colon[/B] said:
send their children to a Catholic,or private school where you learn "absolutely nothing"but pay for the priveledge!
I completely disagree with you Criss. Catholic schools provide the best education there is around here. And many Catholic schools provide free education. I am a product of a small-town nuns school and I am pretty confident that I got the best anyone could get in this country. And guess what? it was mostly free. You can't beat that.

But back to the original post, I usually don't wear the kind of shoes that need shining, but I see nothing wrong in rewarding a child for his work. Work is always better than begging or robbing. And that lesson is not taught in schools.
 

Jim Hinsch

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Jan 1, 2002
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MaxxJaxx said:
When we tell these kids that 5 peso's today is worth more than an education tomorrow, we rob them of their future.

Education doesn't just happen in the classroom. I know a couple limpiabotas that speak several languages and have never taken a class in them. Learning the value of the peso, the esteem that comes with a job well done, ... There is a lot that can be learned on the streets and a lot to be said about the value of being "street-wise". The world is a dog-eat-dog place, like it or not. School is important. So is learning about life.

I worked on school days shoveling snow, delivering papers, cutting lawns, etc. Because I grew up in a suburb, I didn't get much "street" education that way. I picked it up other ways. Those without it are easy targets later in life.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Sorry Pib,may a nun hit my hand with a ruler!

A "little" poetic license was used.However a Catholic school in Moca, I will guess,is not the same as "La Capital"! I have two sons in Santo Cura de Ars.At 450 pesos per month each it is very economical ,but not much on education. I pay more for the school bus(500pesos per month each) than tuituon.Next year they will transfer to a "Real" school,and I will pay about 20 times as much! X-man,"No man ever stands as tall as when he stoops to help a child!" It does help,if even just one child!Before your next trip ask friends,family,and co-workers to bring you any childrens clothes they may have in their house.Bring the clothes with you,hand them out yourself or leave them at any Catholic Church in a poor barrio.Just be sure the clothes are put in the hands of a nun or a priest so they don,t end up at the "Flea Market"!Criss Colon
 

MaxxJaxx

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Jan 1, 2002
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Re: Re: ShoeShine Kids - A MaxxJaxx Bitch

Jim Hinsch said:


Education doesn't just happen in the classroom. I know a couple limpiabotas that speak several languages and have never taken a class in them. Learning the value of the peso, the esteem that comes with a job well done, ... There is a lot that can be learned on the streets and a lot to be said about the value of being "street-wise". The world is a dog-eat-dog place, like it or not. School is important. So is learning about life.

I worked on school days shoveling snow, delivering papers, cutting lawns, etc. Because I grew up in a suburb, I didn't get much "street" education that way. I picked it up other ways. Those without it are easy targets later in life.

The point was that many of these kids are NOT going school because they make more money by skipping class, not mention that some are forced to make certain amount each day or they get beaten by their parents.

Jim, You sound like the type of person who thinks child sweat shops are OK. Maybe we should expose these kids to child porn makers because after all they would get a great "Street-Wise" education on just how this world is just a dog-eat-dog kinda place.

A street education is for punks, pimps and whores.

I just think that kids deserve a better chance than that.

Yes I support Barb and Linden and the what they do for the kids of sosua. I just think kids deserve to have a childhood while they are still children.
 

Jim Hinsch

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Re: Re: Re: ShoeShine Kids - A MaxxJaxx Bitch

MaxxJaxx said:


The point was that many of these kids are NOT going school because they make more money by skipping class, not mention that some are forced to make certain amount each day or they get beaten by their parents.

Jim, You sound like the type of person who thinks child sweat shops are OK. Maybe we should expose these kids to child porn makers because after all they would get a great "Street-Wise" education on just how this world is just a dog-eat-dog kinda place.

A street education is for punks, pimps and whores.

I just think that kids deserve a better chance than that.

Yes I support Barb and Linden and the what they do for the kids of sosua. I just think kids deserve to have a childhood while they are still children.

Success is best achieved by both formal education in school, in the home, and on the street. The street is society. It is life. The real world. The classroom adds great value, but doesn't come close to full coverage. The street, which doesn't mean literally the street, means real world - an analogy being a flight simulator vs. real flying. I'd never advocate skipping school or child labor by coercion (beating by parents). That would seem illogical, but then I don't have all the facts in any particular case.

"A street education is for punks, pimps and whores. "
Is that the only street you know? The "street" is everything in life when one steps outside.

"I just think that kids deserve a better chance than that."
The best chance is afforded by wisdom. School is important. So much is not taught that should be. That's where the "street" comes in.

"Maybe we should expose these kids to child porn"
Exposure to life's horrors is essential. The proper age, type, and degree of exposure are crucial and not the same for all. Obviously unconstructive and damanging exposure is as irrational as complete isolation from life's perils.

"You sound like the type of person who thinks child sweat shops are OK"

Their existence alone IS ok. The existence of options is never bad. Nobody would pick the "sweat shop" option unless the alternative is worse. You advocate "worse"? Not rational.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Almost like the "OLD DR1"

A thread to sink your teeth into! I have lost respect for "Maxx Jaxx",his attack on Jim is totally without merit. His lack of knowledge about the reality of life in the Third World in general, and the Dominican Republic in particular, is unfortunate.His leap from shoeshine boy, to"sweatshop",to "child porn",is ludicrous! To "frost the cake" he uses the,"You sound like the kind of person who" phrase to belittle Jim,s "real world" description of "life" in countries not as fortunate as the USA.I love it when those who have never known hunger campaign against "child labor". "Yo,"Asshole"! these kids can "stay home" and starve,or go to work and eat! We ain,t talking about Cleveland,Ohio here.We are talking about Afghanistan,Pakistan,Uganda,and yes,sadly,about the Republica Dominicana!! Maxx,you might try reading the other posts.Some people other than you have opinions they are expressing. If you open your mind,and close your mouth for a while,you may "See the Light".Simply "re-stating" your misguided opinions,and attacking the opinions of others is counter productive,and makes everyone who reads your posts envision you as a "close minded, pseudo-intellectual,jerk! Now we "know" that is not true! Now,I think I,ll go get my shoes shined,or should I wait until "schools out?" Criss Colon
 

Golo100

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Jan 5, 2002
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The shoeshine issue

The fact of the matter is that there are far too many shoeshine boys in DR(approximately 50,000). This is a national disgrace. What it really means is that there are many slaves working for lazy parents who are drinking a Presidente in a colmadon while their slave son is bringing in the cash.

In my neighborhood as many as 15 different boys pass by screaming "limpiabotas!". Just too many of them and few shoes to shine. Many of them are a nuisance sneaking into our buildings and opening the water pipes, leaving them open. They also cause dirty walls and leave garbage behind. These kids have no manners. Some are petty thieves. Others are scouting to pass information to apartment robbers.

The government should take this as a priority and pick up these kids to educate them rather than closing their eyes to this tragedy. The old story that another Sammy Sosa is lurking out there is a joke. Most of these kids have no future but to become our future criminals. What are they going to do when they grow up? Grown ups do not shine shoes anymore. They just go into the crime market.

The other myth is that these kids go to school in the evenings. Fact is, they just don't go to school. Show me a figure or report showing that shoe shine boys are going to school. Total is ZERO

TW
 

MaxxJaxx

Almost Silver...
Jan 1, 2002
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Re: Almost like the "OLD DR1"

Criss Colon said:
A thread to sink your teeth into! I have lost respect for "Maxx Jaxx".

His lack of knowledge about the reality of life in the Third World in general, and the Dominican Republic in particular, is unfortunate.

We are talking about Afghanistan,Pakistan,Uganda,and yes,sadly,about the Republica Dominicana!!

Now,I think I,ll go get my shoes shined,or should I wait until "schools out?" Criss Colon

First Chris, I could give a rats ass whether you had, have or ever will again have any respect me.

Second Chris, I have probably travelled to more countries than you have (23 at last count) and I have been exposed to more real world situations than most. I speak from experience, you speak from blind ignorance.

Third, I am not American and for the most part think the American way of life is an illusion.

Fourth, your ignorance in comparing the DR to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uganda shows me it is you who needs to "See the Light". There is no comparison.

Finally Chris, Get your shoes shined or not. I govern my life by my actions not yours.
 

MaxxJaxx

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Jan 1, 2002
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Re: Re: Re: Re: ShoeShine Kids - A MaxxJaxx Bitch

Jim Hinsch said:



"You sound like the type of person who thinks child sweat shops are OK"

Their existence alone IS ok. The existence of options is never bad. Nobody would pick the "sweat shop" option unless the alternative is worse. You advocate "worse"? Not rational.

Sorry Jim but I have to disagree with you on that point. Their existence is NOT ok. Slaves don't have choices or options.

Those of us who are FREE should choose not support it.
 

Jan

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I met the cutest shoeshine boy! He gave me a little flower and had the biggest smile! I tried to give him a few pesos for it and he wouldn't take the money he just kept smiling. I do feel bad for alot of them. What future do they really have?
 

Jim Hinsch

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ShoeShine Kids - A MaxxJaxx Bitch

MaxxJaxx said:


Sorry Jim but I have to disagree with you on that point. Their existence is NOT ok. Slaves don't have choices or options.

Those of us who are FREE should choose not support it.

I'm against slavery. That is illegal.
 

Criss Colon

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Maxx-Jackass"

Thank you for that post.Now everyone will say,"See Criss was right,that "maxx" guy doesn,t read the posts he just wants to see his words "inprint"! Five so called sentences,Four telling me how stupid I am,there,s a News Flash! One stating that you are not an American,who cares.Might explain your "closed-mindedness"! 23 countries,wow,can I touch your passport?At least you gave TW something complain about,and show his "sensitive" side.I am an American,and I hope you come from one of the many countries we have bombed,or will "soon" bomb!Or are you from one of the countries we have saved?Has to one or the other,cause we just can,t just sit still and do nothing! Criss Colon