Understanding Troubled Dominican Children

NALs · Feb 13, 2017

In the Charlie Rose show a new focus on the brain was aired recently (and uploaded to their website, see the link at the end of the post), this time about the effect childhood adversity has on the developing brain and on behavior.

Within the term adversity they include poverty, abuse, bullied victims; neglect, and a host of other issues. They also mention how foster care affects children's well being.

I think this is a very important show for anyone interested in Dominican youth, whether its as a teacher or as an active supporter of orphanages or even as someone that periodically help street kids. In fact, anyone raising kids should watch this, because sooner or later your kids will become friend's with or will know some kid that suffers from this.

1. Does anyone has any first hand knowledge of these effect on Dominica children?

2. Did it ever occurred to you that perhaps the kid's upbringing or even social condition is responsible for their abnormal development?

3. Do you think people in positions to directly influence the children, such as teachers or orphanage administrators or other types, are generally aware of how these problems in children's development arise?

I focus a lot on the effect it has on children, but in reality these effects once in place last a lifetime. Perhaps there are teenagers or young adults or even adults in the general sense that show symptoms of having suffered childhood trauma of some sort. Now we know how deep these scars go, right into the sense of who they are as a person.

Here is the show (lasts about an hour, but very interesting and educational).

https://charlierose.com/videos/29820

Matilda · Feb 13, 2017

I have a Dominican/Haitian foster child who is now aged 11. I have only had him for 6 months but he was brought up in abject poverty, starvation, probably abuse. He has obvious mental disabilities, although he is very very bright he has short term memory issues (forgets to flush toilet, close doors, take clothes off before bed) even though told and explained.

Personally, I believe the saying of the Jesuits - give me a child till he is 7 and I will show you the man. I am doing everything I can to reverse some of his behavioural issues, although I have zero experience in this, but we are now only being called into school about his behaviour once a month rather than a few times a week, so maybe I am doing something right.

I am sure he has a range of syndromes, but there is no psychological help here in the mountains and I won't put him on any sort of drugs, whatever Dr. Google says, unless there is careful monitoring. Some of his past behaviour is affecting his current behaviour in that he hoards food - takes it from the fridge and hides it in his room (hence we now have rats) as he does not know when he will have more. Hopefully one day he will realise that there will always be food. He also eats the whole bones from any meat - eats the whole chicken bone - not just the meat.

Someone suggested he had Oppositional Defiance Disorder - I ask him to shut fridge door after opening it, he always leave it open; ask him not to use too much water when mopping the floor, he empties whole bucket of dirty water in front of me all over floor.

If anyone has any idea how to stop the behavioural issues, the lies, the stealing, lack of comprehension then please let me know - all help gratefully received!

Matilda

bienamor · Feb 13, 2017

Matilda
As a former foster parent, I can only recommend continue what your doing so far. You may never correct all of the behavior issues, but most will get better with time and understanding. Having said that it will take time and lots of patience. Had one that would take and eat corn on the cob (cob and all) kind of like your problem with the chicken bones.

DR Solar · Feb 13, 2017

Matilda said:
I have a Dominican/Haitian foster child who is now aged 11. I have only had him for 6 months but he was brought up in abject poverty, starvation, probably abuse. He has obvious mental disabilities, although he is very very bright he has short term memory issues (forgets to flush toilet, close doors, take clothes off before bed) even though told and explained.

Personally, I believe the saying of the Jesuits - give me a child till he is 7 and I will show you the man. I am doing everything I can to reverse some of his behavioural issues, although I have zero experience in this, but we are now only being called into school about his behaviour once a month rather than a few times a week, so maybe I am doing something right.

I am sure he has a range of syndromes, but there is no psychological help here in the mountains and I won't put him on any sort of drugs, whatever Dr. Google says, unless there is careful monitoring. Some of his past behaviour is affecting his current behaviour in that he hoards food - takes it from the fridge and hides it in his room (hence we now have rats) as he does not know when he will have more. Hopefully one day he will realise that there will always be food. He also eats the whole bones from any meat - eats the whole chicken bone - not just the meat.

Someone suggested he had Oppositional Defiance Disorder - I ask him to shut fridge door after opening it, he always leave it open; ask him not to use too much water when mopping the floor, he empties whole bucket of dirty water in front of me all over floor.

If anyone has any idea how to stop the behavioural issues, the lies, the stealing, lack of comprehension then please let me know - all help gratefully received!

Matilda

First of all. Matilda has been a very long time contributor here and her reputation and honesty is not questioned.

Wow Matilda. How can we help? I'm sure that you are doing everything you can and have looked at every option that you can find. With this posting, even you have hit a wall.

I'm not an expert at all but have had to deal with some of this. Not flushing a toilet and sleeping in cloths don't worry about. His cloths are very important since that is what he has. The other items are ... who cares at this point other then the closing of doors? I'll not go there now.

Hording food. Let him do it. Get him a small cooler or apt. frig. This makes a part of his safe zone that he has never known before. I suggest that YOU stock it with foods that are better for him that he will eat. Eating bones and such says a lot.

IMHO. The defiance is a matter of trust. He has been let down his whole life and probably had to do things that no child should have had to do. He is now taking it out on you because YOU are the ... he now has power since you are being nice. He is trying to gain control that he never had. This will NOT be easy.

I might suggest that you find a live in "friend" near his age that stays with him. At least part time that might be able to better be a friend near his age. He might respond to another 11 year old much sooner then you as a stranger adult. Risky?

Speaking from having 2 sons with disabilities. This is very difficult and situations are different.

I'd be more then glad to help as I can Matilda. You've never asked for help before. Tell us what you need/cash to help you help your young man.

Long and difficult post, for me, so not previewing.

Matilda · Feb 13, 2017

DR Solar. Thanks. I need advice and understanding - not cash, but thanks for the offer and thanks so much for the advice. This kid is 11 years old and is 5ft 4 inches. He is taller than me. He wants to be a baseball star (don't they all) and currently goes to practice 3 or 4 times a week locally. He has all the gear now. But he will put zero effort in. If it hurts he stops. I do push ups with him and say we will do 30. He stops after 3. Says is too hard. It is the same with everything. No effort at all. I tell him he can be a baseball star but he has to work at it. He wants it, but won't work at it. If the ball comes to him when he is in the outfield, if it is next to him he picks it up, a metre away he won't stretch. This is what I don't understand. He has a great life compared to his previous life on the streets. Good food, a safe environment, TV, computer, own room, but will make zero effort. That is apart from the arrogance, talking back etc which now I understand re control so thanks so much for that. I have another foster kid who comes once a month who is a darling and perfect in every way, Chivirico, some know him via my blog and they get on well together = apart from the fact that the difference is much more apparent. One is sweet, willing, well behaved and everyone adores him. The other is sullen, arrogant, bad mannered and no one likes him. Not sure how much that is helping.

Matilda

DR Solar · Feb 13, 2017

You and yours should be considered... hero's.

I've put out what my thoughts are. I really can not add anymore at this time. Other then... He wants to be a baseball star.

So... let's find him a baseball camp? Put up and get it done or absolute disaster.

You have done so much for so many Matilda. NEVER think that you have in anyway not been a wonderful person.

Still reading and wondering.

Drak · Feb 13, 2017

Matilda said:
He has short term memory issues (forgets to flush toilet, close doors, take clothes off before bed) even though told and explained.

Lots of children in my experience (and adults have these issues).

Matilda said:
so maybe I am doing something right.

It seems like it! Repetition, repetition, repetition. It is hard I think for most people to break a habit, good or bad.

Matilda said:
as he does not know when he will have more.

Not sure if it would help, or if he would be interested... but do you take him shopping with you regularly? Maybe involve him if not?

I used to take my son with me always and he enjoyed it.

Being involved and seeing the food, with regular trips may help aleviate this problem.

Matilda said:
He also eats the whole bones from any meat - eats the whole chicken bone - not just the meat.

I know many Dominicans that do this.

In fact I find myself gnawing away occasionally now and agian too...

irate:

Matilda said:
I ask him to shut fridge door after opening it, he always leave it open

Perhaps now more from habit, lack of care / interest.

Matilda said:
he empties whole bucket of dirty water in front of me all over floor.

FWIW: I see many Dominicans doing it this way. Perhaps this is how he learned it?

No doubt there are problems as you describe, but perhaps many are just normal traits we all have to some degree or another.

I could be wrong, but I think it is also hard to teach motivation...

I was fortunate and grew up in a strong supportive family. It sounds like you're providing the basis of this now, but later in his life.

Kudos to you, keep up the good work!

cjewell · Feb 13, 2017

I can relate to this so much - though my situation is much easier because I do not live with the child. My spouse has 2 children with his ex (same woman) - 6 and 8 - the 6 year old is a girl, she is very well behaved, the 8 year old is a boy and terribly behaved.

- When you ask him to do something he just ignores you like you are not talking
- If you discipline him eg. take a toy away he throws massive fits. Once I said to him, time to go to the beach, he was playing a puzzle. He just ignored me. I asked him 3x. Finally I started putting the puzzle away and he just went nuts.
- If he doesn't get what he wants he throws sucky fits. We stopped at a parada for lunch. The kids wanted candies. I said if they ate their lunch we would talk about it. The daughter was fine, ate her whole lunch. He sat there arms crossed, refused to eat or even answer anyone.
- He will just walk out the front door without even telling anyone
- He will not use utenciles to eat and just jams the food in his mouth
- If I tell him something, he will just run to his dad and try to get me over ruled

Myself and my spouse live in Canada but we see them 5-6 months out of the year because we visit often. I have told my spouse I cannot picture him with us in Canada and I honestly cant - which hurts my heart. While you Mat are so selfless - I cant imagine dealing with this **** all day every day. It is such a challenge. I am beside myself and I cant figure out how the 2 children are raised in the same house and one is turning out to be a complete nightmare

I quite frankly don't know what to do

DRdreaming · Feb 13, 2017

Continue to do as you are doing. It is difficult, but you will see results.

Hold him accountable (for small things at first), it shows that you are serious, and builds a sense of responsibility.

Reward good behavior.

Set goals, measurable and attainable, and reward him along the way to their completion.

I agree that the food hoarding may be related to his past living conditions. To make it easier on all of you, give him a closed container in his room, and tell him he can keep non perishables there, but only there. In time, this will pass.

Children of that age tend to look for instant gratification. If he cannot see a reward, he does not want to put forth the effort. So for example, if he sits down and completes his homework, he gets an extra 30 minutes of television, or play time. I would not link the rewards to food, as he already seems to have an issue there.

Praise him loudly and publicly, chastise him quietly and privately. He will learn that you respect him, and show respect in return.

It will take time for him to trust you, you may be the first person in his life that has ever shown love or care for him, he has probably been let down so many times before that he is reluctant to trust anyone.

It may be an uphill battle, but the reward is worth it. Watching him change and grow into a responsible adult.

I am raising three boys (ages 6, 12, and 13) none of which are mine, or my husband's. There have been a lot of battles over the years, but lots of positive changes.

The love they have brought into my life makes it all worthwhile.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

keepcoming · Feb 13, 2017

Matilda...maybe he is testing you? He may feel he has been abandoned by previous family and is testing you to see if you will do the same (which of course you would not). Even though his life is so much better now that he is with you, he may still feel abandoned by previous family. Hang in there!!!

GringoRubio · Feb 13, 2017

Matilda, my heart really goes out to you for giving this boy a home.

I wouldn't worry about the bones so much. I know the 7 year old boy I live with would sit in front of the TV with a bowl of bones and crunch on them like potato chips. His mother gave them to him, and she herself will snatch up my discarded chicken bones and crunch on them. I was at first horrified "es como un perro", but they believe it's good nutrition for growing bones. It's Dominican thing. I've never seen it elsewhere.

It sounds to me that you're already doing a great job by providing a safe environment. At a 11, a lot of the personality has already formed and cannot be erased. It can, however, be added to. I suspect you're correct that he has OPD (Oppositional Personal Disorder) based on the lying and defiance. It usually eases with age so there's definitely room for hope.

The short-term memory thing is worth looking into. It's possible that it's ADD which is a frequent underlying cause of OPD (or it's correlated to OPD, take your pick).

Most abused children try to become invisible like a chameleon will melt into their surroundings and behave almost like a ghost in the house. They are like timid angels what try to anticipate any possible thing that they will get them in trouble and go to great lengths to avoid it. I'm not saying he has not been abused, but I don't think this is the primary issue.

Personality disorders are very different. Many personality disorders have a their core a deeply buried belief that they are inherently damaged, ugly, and/or unlovable; like an ugly and deformed monster beyond any hope of redemption. However, this core is so deeply hidden and buried that it is deep in the psyche and the person with the disorder is deeply in denial and completely unaware of it. However, the terror of discovery and certain rejection remains and cannot be underestimated. It fuels much of their dysfunctional behavior.

This can arise from neglect, abuse, or a failure of a mother and child to bond. It can also occur because of temperament or even a medical condition such as a gluten or casein (dairy) allergy which affects the brain which in turn effects the bonding process.

For instance, lying (often when it's just as easy to tell the truth) comes from a fabricated and projected reality that has been knitted together where the "I'm unlovable" core belief does not exist. It is over compensating and usually the smarter the person; the longer they hold this fabrication into adulthood or even their entire life. They never "hit bottom" and they never need to confront their core belief. It's a truly miserable way to go through life.

The defiance can be a dysfunctional behavior that also allows them to mask their core belief. That is, mom hates me because I'm behave bad, and not because I'm an ugly deformed monster that no one can love. The rejection is deflected on a tangible and fabricated reason rather than their core belief which can safely remain hidden.

You didn't mention anger, but anger is a defensive mechanism which in personality disorders is usually seething and ready to burst forth with explosive force.

It could also be deeply rooted anger which the impenetrable works of Melanie Klein described as the irreconcilable anger that all people have against our early caretakers whether mothers or surrogates in their preverbal first 18 months. Many believe this is the underlying cause of why humans are capable of not only great good, but evil as well. However, it is especially prevalent in personality disorders where the bonding process went awry.

Further, keep in mind that the child could have a very different perception of reality. What we may consider completely benign or even warm, could be being interpreted as hostile by the person with the personality disorder. For instance, a loving foster parent that provides a warm hug can be intensely uncomfortable because they can't accept it without confronting their core belief.

Sorry, if the above sounds soap boxish. I didn't intend it that way. Unfortunately, I'm a bit of an expert at personality disorders as I've had to deal with such people all my life, and I frequently decode these mysteries for my daughters so that they can avoid the pitfalls that plague multiple family members.

PS- get a rat proof container for your son's room. Maybe something small enough that he can hide away in a secret place to keep his food safe. I'd advise against making it known that you want to get rid of the rats; he may start feeding them on purpose.

Fulano2 · Feb 14, 2017

Do not forget...the genes, though it is not popular to call this spade a spade.

the gorgon · Feb 14, 2017

Fulano2 said:
Do not forget...the genes, though it is not popular to call this spade a spade.

ok...

LTSteve · Feb 14, 2017

Matilda said:
DR Solar. Thanks. I need advice and understanding - not cash, but thanks for the offer and thanks so much for the advice. This kid is 11 years old and is 5ft 4 inches. He is taller than me. He wants to be a baseball star (don't they all) and currently goes to practice 3 or 4 times a week locally. He has all the gear now. But he will put zero effort in. If it hurts he stops. I do push ups with him and say we will do 30. He stops after 3. Says is too hard. It is the same with everything. No effort at all. I tell him he can be a baseball star but he has to work at it. He wants it, but won't work at it. If the ball comes to him when he is in the outfield, if it is next to him he picks it up, a metre away he won't stretch. This is what I don't understand. He has a great life compared to his previous life on the streets. Good food, a safe environment, TV, computer, own room, but will make zero effort. That is apart from the arrogance, talking back etc which now I understand re control so thanks so much for that. I have another foster kid who comes once a month who is a darling and perfect in every way, Chivirico, some know him via my blog and they get on well together = apart from the fact that the difference is much more apparent. One is sweet, willing, well behaved and everyone adores him. The other is sullen, arrogant, bad mannered and no one likes him. Not sure how much that is helping.

Matilda

Matilda, Bravo. You are what committment is all about. Does your foster child have an interest in playing with other children while in school and at home? He may need to develop social skills which are not apparent. If his behavior does not approve I would consider having him talk to a clinical pyschologist and perhaps you will need the help of a prescription drug to alter behavior. Don't look at this as a negative. These drugs can do wonders to help control your son's behavior and give him a better outlook on life. Good luck.

Matilda · Feb 14, 2017

Thanks so much for all the great information. At the moment he has no anger issues - he answer back which i was not used to with my husbands 3 boys which I raised from ages 9,10 who are now all in their mid twenties. When you tell him off you get no reply just a blank stare - bit creepy really. He isn't into physical contact - hugs etc out of the question. We operate a reward and punishment system. Started based around the TV - his favourite thing, then his tablet, 2nd favourite thing but that didn't work. It is now based on money and he has an account at the bank where he can deposit his earnings and watch them grow.

Play is difficult which is where many of the problems cause. He hates losing, yells mentira at other kids all of the time, and cheats!

Will just keep doing what we are doing and hope for improvement. Thanks again for all advice

Matilda

the gorgon · Feb 14, 2017

Matilda said:
Thanks so much for all the great information. At the moment he has no anger issues - he answer back which i was not used to with my husbands 3 boys which I raised from ages 9,10 who are now all in their mid twenties. When you tell him off you get no reply just a blank stare - bit creepy really. He isn't into physical contact - hugs etc out of the question. We operate a reward and punishment system. Started based around the TV - his favourite thing, then his tablet, 2nd favourite thing but that didn't work. It is now based on money and he has an account at the bank where he can deposit his earnings and watch them grow.

Play is difficult which is where many of the problems cause. He hates losing, yells mentira at other kids all of the time, and cheats!

Will just keep doing what we are doing and hope for improvement. Thanks again for all advice

Matilda

he hates losing, yells mentira at other kids, and cheats....

i can think of adults who do all of the above..

bob saunders · Feb 14, 2017

Matilda said:
Thanks so much for all the great information. At the moment he has no anger issues - he answer back which i was not used to with my husbands 3 boys which I raised from ages 9,10 who are now all in their mid twenties. When you tell him off you get no reply just a blank stare - bit creepy really. He isn't into physical contact - hugs etc out of the question. We operate a reward and punishment system. Started based around the TV - his favourite thing, then his tablet, 2nd favourite thing but that didn't work. It is now based on money and he has an account at the bank where he can deposit his earnings and watch them grow.

Play is difficult which is where many of the problems cause. He hates losing, yells mentira at other kids all of the time, and cheats!

Will just keep doing what we are doing and hope for improvement. Thanks again for all advice

Matilda

Sounds like the guys at the Domino table on the corner. You need patience and consistency, which it sounds like you are providing. Is he an orphan or an economic foster child? My experience in raising a child with ADHD was routine was very important as well.

Matilda · Feb 14, 2017

bob saunders said:
Sounds like the guys at the Domino table on the corner. You need patience and consistency, which it sounds like you are providing. Is he an orphan or an economic foster child? My experience in raising a child with ADHD was routine was very important as well.

His mother is a Haitian hooker. His father is supposedly my husband's half brother although not named on the birth certificate and he is sure he isn't the father. So who knows. Mother does not want child, never has, half brother raised him on next to zero income but had a stroke and now cannot care for himself let alone child. Child found wandering on beach begging for food by one of my step sons and brought here.

Matilda

cbmitch9 · Feb 14, 2017

Matilda,

Whatever you are doing, it's the right thing to do. Patience, repetition, and more patience. Bless your soul because I would never be able to do what you are doing with a child that was not my step-child or biological child. Learned behavior can always be unlearned. Keep at it. One day he will change because he is aware of everything you are teaching him.

Eyes · Feb 14, 2017

Honestly l think your doing the best for this kid but it's not going to change him over night if he's been damaged mentally over a long period of time. I have a close friend who have adopted many kids very damaged and abused In some cases It becomes damage control as long as his behaviour is not worsening. Best of luck l think your desire to help this kid and change his life is selfless!

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