Dominican Spanish & Canarian Spanish

D

Dominicanese

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Dominican Spanish & Canarian Spanish

It is said that the root of Dominican Spanish or the father of our Spanish is from The Canary Islands which is a fact. But to what extend is it similar to our Spanish. Caribbean Spanish as a whole is of Andaluzian & Canarian Spanish origin, which they both are related anyways.

here are some Canarian Spanish samples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w69G5rNuXcE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo_PRkX6sZc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKu3YsAqB4U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLXVmskBy1U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0sjveet6e4
 
Fulano2

Fulano2

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We spent some time in Tenerife and really felt at home. Same accent, maybe a bit more Cuban than Dominican but very different from the Spanish of the " peninsula". 
 
M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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In my opinion, the first, second and fourth video really reflect the influence from Spain from the specified regions that was brought to the Caribbean and especially compared to videos you posted in your first thread on the topic. The videos were not as convincing.

The accents of the speakers in these videos definitely sound familiar. However, I as well think they sound more like Cubans or vice versa. Keep in mind because of the passage of time and influence from other languages accents change or form their own blend which can be said for Cuba, DR and PR. The Cuban accent can be tricky depending on where the person is from in Cuba, education and demographics all influence. Some Habaneros have a very interesting accent and I have not figured out what the influence is but when I hear it I know the person is from Havana. 

Similar to the DR one can recognize the accent in general and there  are unique accents like the Cibao region, the capital and the South etc. One can debate which is easier or more difficult to understand. The Puerto Rican accent from PR not New York challenges many and once again I think the Canarian accent mixed with other influences are unique to the island.

This is why I tell people train your ear. Don't get comfortable with one brand of Spanish per se. A language as vast as Spanish is you will hear a variety of accents and speech patterns some easy some more complex but I understand for some it's what they are used to. From the Caribbean right to the River Plate region the accents change and that is just Latin America. Caribbean Spanish is said to be the most difficult by many to understand but I say a cada cual lo suyo.


-MP.
 
D

Dominicanese

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Marianopolita said:
In my opinion, the first, second and fourth video really reflect the influence from Spain from the specified regions that was brought to the Caribbean and especially compared to videos you posted in your first thread on the topic. The videos were not as convincing.

The accents of the speakers in these videos definitely sound familiar. However, I as well think they sound more like Cubans or vice versa. Keep in mind because of the passage of time and influence from other languages accents change or form their own blend which can be said for Cuba, DR and PR. The Cuban accent can be tricky depending on where the person is from in Cuba, education and demographics all influence. Some Habaneros have a very interesting accent and I have not figured out what the influence is but when I hear it I know the person is from Havana. 

Similar to the DR one can recognize the accent in general and there  are unique accents like the Cibao region, the capital and the South etc. One can debate which is easier or more difficult to understand. The Puerto Rican accent from PR not New York challenges many and once again I think the Canarian accent mixed with other influences are unique to the island.

This is why I tell people train your ear. Don't get comfortable with one brand of Spanish per se. A language as vast as Spanish is you will hear a variety of accents and speech patterns some easy some more complex but I understand for some it's what they are used to. From the Caribbean right to the River Plate region the accents change and that is just Latin America. Caribbean Spanish is said to be the most difficult by many to understand but I say a cada cual lo suyo.


-MP.
Click to expand...

canarian accent does not sound identical to Dominican Spanish but it is very similar, moreso it sounds caribbean spanish as a whole, and yes it sounds more cuban, however there are some that sound Dominican.

Dominican Spanish in the 16th century would have sounded like Southwestern Andaluzians like those of Cadiz & Seville at that time, at the sametime there were a lot of portuguese settlers in the cibao region, at the sametime there was a lot of African slaves that were speaking Bozal Spanish and or an Africanized Pidgin Spanish for communication. In the 18th century a massive load of Canarians came in order to prevent the French from taking over, the french never left any influence to begin with. The Blacks & Mulatto slaves were speaking an Andaluzian-African Spanish with some Portuguese influences (kinna like what you hear in the southwest region of DR today), when the Canarians came in large numbers those accents would influence eachother, so in other words Dominican Spanish is a Andaluzian-Canarian Spanish with some influences from West African languages, and minor portuguese influence. But i think tthat DR spanish is a little more Afro influenced than PR & Cuban Spanish, if you hear how the cuban orientales speak from east cuba such as santiago & guantanamo they sound Dominican and that happens to be the blackest region of cuba, due to large concentration of sugar can plantations moreso than the west
 
Fulano2

Fulano2

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You understand that the Canarian islands are seven and that the accents even differ from each other depending on the island? So speaking of the Canarian islands' accent would be the same as saying the Carribean accent.
I have heard people from La Gomera speaking on Tenerife and they sound different than the Tenerifians.
 
M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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Dominicanese said:
canarian accent does not sound identical to Dominican Spanish but it is very similar, moreso it sounds caribbean spanish as a whole, and yes it sounds more cuban, however there are some that sound Dominican.

Dominican Spanish in the 16th century would have sounded like Southwestern Andaluzians like those of Cadiz & Seville at that time, at the sametime there were a lot of portuguese settlers in the cibao region, at the sametime there was a lot of African slaves that were speaking Bozal Spanish and or an Africanized Pidgin Spanish for communication. In the 18th century a massive load of Canarians came in order to prevent the French from taking over, the french never left any influence to begin with. The Blacks & Mulatto slaves were speaking an Andaluzian-African Spanish with some Portuguese influences (kinna like what you hear in the southwest region of DR today), when the Canarians came in large numbers those accents would influence eachother, so in other words Dominican Spanish is a Andaluzian-Canarian Spanish with some influences from West African languages, and minor portuguese influence. But i think tthat DR spanish is a little more Afro influenced than PR & Cuban Spanish, if you hear how the cuban orientales speak from east cuba such as santiago & guantanamo they sound Dominican and that happens to be the blackest region of cuba, due to large concentration of sugar can plantations moreso than the west
Click to expand...


This is way too broad of topic to summarize in a few paragraphs. My response is specific to the videos as they relate to the subject. You are now responding to the broader topic. However, in my opinion it's way too deep to try and summarize in a post. 

In my opinion, you are minimizing the Afro influence on Caribbean Spanish tremendously. Afro influence in my esteem refers to the speech patterns (really evident) and to a lesser degree vocabulary. All the Caribbean Spanish-speaking countries have afro influence and to go further so do the coastal areas of Venezuela, Colombia, Panama and Costa Rica. The speech patterns among Afro antillanos vary due to the same reason every time which is education and where the person is from in the country. For Cuba, DR and PR the history tells the story.


-MP.
 
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M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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Fulano2 said:
You understand that the Canarian islands are seven and that the accents even differ from each other depending on the island? So speaking of the Canarian islands' accent would be the same as saying the Carribean accent.
I have heard people from La Gomera speaking on Tenerife and they sound different than the Tenerifians.
Click to expand...


Yes, this is so true. The people from La Gomera don't sound like those from Tenerife and so on.


-MP.
 
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D

Dominicanese

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Marianopolita said:
This is way too broad of topic to summarize in a few paragraphs. My response is specific to the videos as they relate to the subject. You are now responding to the broader topic. However, in my opinion it's way too deep to try and summarize in a post. 

In my opinion, you are minimizing the Afro influence on Caribbean Spanish tremendously. Afro influence in my esteem refers to the speech patterns (really evident) and to a lesser degree vocabulary. All the Caribbean Spanish-speaking countries have afro influence and to go further so do the coastal areas of Venezuela, Colombia, Panama and Costa Rica. The speech patterns among Afro antillanos vary due to the same reason every time which is education and where the person is from in the country. For Cuba, DR and PR the history tells the story.


-MP.
Click to expand...

yeah, but many of the vocabulary and speech patterns that you speak of are found in Andaluzia and Canaries too, there perhaps some syntax patterns here and there that may be African but not most

i think the Afro influence is more in the entonations of some ppl and also the rythm
 
D

Dominicanese

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Fulano2 said:
You understand that the Canarian islands are seven and that the accents even differ from each other depending on the island? So speaking of the Canarian islands' accent would be the same as saying the Carribean accent.
I have heard people from La Gomera speaking on Tenerife and they sound different than the Tenerifians.
Click to expand...

the gomero accent sounds more Dominicanish

the tenerife accent sounds more canarian

and la palma accent sounds more Puerto Rican
 
NALs

NALs

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Most of the Canarian Spaniards that moved to the what is now the DR were from Tenerife and La Palma.

In the Archivos de Indias in Seville, they still have the letters written by the mayors of several towns on Tenerife complaining that most of their residents departed for Santo Domingo (the island) and that most of the remaining residents were selling their stuff to finance their move to Santo Domingo too.

There are many Dominican last names (especially many last names that are essentially from the Cibao) that are not much present in mainland Spain, but are much more common in those two islands in the Canaries.

I think the biggest difference between Dominican Spanish and the Spanish spoken on those islands is due to time. Mass Canary immigration was essentially over by the time the Treaty of Basel was signed in 1795, and the trickle that continued dried up after Touissant and Dessalines invaded, the second one killing everything that moved out of spite.

Some Canaries probably moved after the country reunited with Spain in 1810 (officially in 1814, but in the first Spanish constitution of 1812 the Spanish part of the island of Santo Domingo is included as part of Spanish territory, even though France officially still owned the land; that always amazes me LOL), and some probably arrived after the country was established in 1844. During Hereaux's dictatorship an agreement was reached between Spain and the DR to increase Canarian immigration to the DR, but the Spanish monarchy limited their part in the deal to instructing the authorities in the Canaries to not put any hassles or barrier to any Canarian that expressed a desire to migrate to the DR. Some Canarians moved during the Trujillo dictatorship, and in our day there are is probably a small trickle of Canarian migration.

My point is that mass Canarian immigration hasn't taken place since the late 18th century.

In Cuba and Puerto Rico Canarians were migrating in more or less mass numbers practically up to the early 20th century.
 
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M

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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Dominicanese said:
yeah, but many of the vocabulary and speech patterns that you speak of are found in Andaluzia and Canaries too, there perhaps some syntax patterns here and there that may be African but not most

i think the Afro influence is more in the entonations of some ppl and also the rythm
Click to expand...



The Afro influence is not only in the intonation and rhythm of some speakers but it is also in the grammar and pronunciation of the words of many speakers. I'm always amazed how the influence pervades the Afro antillano populace. There's nothing wrong with it per se. It is just a feature of a particular socio ethnic group and it is significant not insignificant. This is not to say it does not cross over to other socio ethnic populations. The same holds true for Afro populations in the Caribbean basin region. The features are recognizable.


 -MP.
 
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D

Dominicanese

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NALs said:
Most of the Canarian Spaniards that moved to the what is now the DR were from Tenerife and La Palma.

In the Archivos de Indias in Seville, they still have the letters written by the mayors of several towns on Tenerife complaining that most of their residents departed for Santo Domingo (the island) and that most of the remaining residents were selling their stuff to finance their move to Santo Domingo too.

There are many Dominican last names (especially many last names that are essentially from the Cibao) that are not much present in mainland Spain, but are much more common in those two islands in the Canaries.

I think the biggest difference between Dominican Spanish and the Spanish spoken on those islands is due to time. Mass Canary immigration was essentially over by the time the Treaty of Basel was signed in 1795, and the trickle that continued dried up after Touissant and Dessalines invaded, the second one killing everything that moved out of spite.

Some Canaries probably moved after the country reunited with Spain in 1810 (officially in 1814, but in the first Spanish constitution of 1812 the Spanish part of the island of Santo Domingo is included as part of Spanish territory, even though France officially still owned the land; that always amazes me LOL), and some probably arrived after the country was established in 1844. During Hereaux's dictatorship an agreement was reached between Spain and the DR to increase Canarian immigration to the DR, but the Spanish monarchy limited their part in the deal to instructing the authorities in the Canaries to not put any hassles or barrier to any Canarian that expressed a desire to migrate to the DR. Some Canarians moved during the Trujillo dictatorship, and in our day there are is probably a small trickle of Canarian migration.

My point is that mass Canarian immigration hasn't taken place since the late 18th century.

In Cuba and Puerto Rico Canarians were migrating in more or less mass numbers practically up to the early 20th century.
Click to expand...

wow, see now that makes more sense

i agree with you, i think its the timing

i talk to a Andaluzian guy via discord, i think he's from malaga and he has told me that it is possible that back then the Andaluzian moreso than canarian may have sounded more different back then, they sound the same still but just not as castillian as today due to the school media and such
 
D

Dominicanese

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Marianopolita said:
The Afro influence is not only in the intonation and rhythm of some speakers but it is also in the grammar and pronunciation of the words of many speakers. I'm always amazed how the influence pervades the Afro antillano populace. There's nothing wrong with it per se. It is just a feature of a particular socio ethnic group and it is significant not insignificant. This is not to say it does not cross over to other socio ethnic populations. The same holds true for Afro populations in the Caribbean basin region. The features are recognizable.


 -MP.
Click to expand...

i agree with you, i never disagreed with what you said

the Afro influence that you refer to is more noticeable when spoken informly, remember the thread "Afro influence in Dominican Spanish"? I posted some video samples of caribbean spanish in the more black areas and as well as the coastal pacific choco accents of ecuador and colombia (they dont have that canarian influence that we do) they sound similar to us Dominicans despite them having a more Castillian based Spanish but the similarities are from the African influences which is some pronunciations and entonations

but we are talking about the Canarian influence

i really don't think this guy sounds that African like you say (he's a white Dominican, you proly know of him) Hipolito Mejia, our expresidente del de la republica dominicana. Here's him talking, he has a heavy Dominican accent. To me he sounds Canarian, his afro influence is minimal.
[video=youtube;qS4yJot0u1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS4yJot0u1Q[/video]

maybe he does, idk, i think he sometimes may pull off some Africanisms here and there from his campesino-ness
 
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