E'pa 'tras que vamo'

Mauricio

Gold
Nov 18, 2002
5,607
7
38
When I came to DR for the first time (17 years ago), Santo Domingo was a mess, best mall in the city was Diamond Mall or Unicentro, and government institutions were inefficient houses of horror where you would spend hours just to get a simple paper or deposit a document. (But at least you could find a 'buscon' that would do (or skip) the waiting for 200 pesos).

By time things got better, the city modernized, developed and also government institutions became more efficient, buscones disappeared and I'd do basically all interactions with the government myself, with reasonable speed. 

However the last 2, 3 years or so, I feel things are going backwards. Some government offices are back to the old waiting lines, rooms full of 'mensajeros' waiting for their turn. Yesterday I was confirmed in this notion when I needed to deposit a letter in the ministry of labour. When I arrive I ask what the procedure is: get a number there and take a seat. I get a number: 07, and see on the electronic board, they are 'now serving'  07. I ask, "where do I go, since it's my turn?". Take a seat was the answer. While seated I hear another lady saying she has number 06 and wondering when they will attend her. The 'mensajeros' around us laugh and explain that we have to wait till it goes from 07 to 99 and starts over. The add that the only reason they are sitting there is because it's their job. Since the average Dominican sometimes say things just to say something or are just plain wrong , I went back to the counter where they confirmed, I had to wait the next 07. The mensajeros told me this was business as usual at the ministry of labour. Completely inefficient operation back to Hipólito or even pre-Hipólito days after all the improvements made since 2004. 

Add to this the lack of action by the government to combat crime, control the dollar, fight (or refrain from) corruption, a fake economic growth, no real progress in education (building schools is NOT the solution), progress in public health care doesn't go further than fresh up the buildings.

This country is going backwards instead of forward. Though I don't want make this political, but I can't help think about the slogan of a former election: "estábamos mejor con él".
 

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
31,266
363
0
The 'mensajeros' around us laugh and explain that we have to wait till it goes from 07 to 99 and starts over.

2pql6k7.gif
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,504
5,932
113
dr1.com
Well , I have to return to Santo Domingo Junta to do my birth certificate/Cedula because nobody in the Jarabacoa office has done an extranjero one before so they are afraid to do it. My wife suggested a simple phone call to SD for instructions but NO, that would be impossible. However they gladly gave her a copy of her Birth Certificate in about ten minutes.
 
Last edited:

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Well, there may be pockets of regression.

But I have to give props to the Camara of Puerto Plata and DGII in both Puerto Plata and Santiago.

I had decided to transform two dormant SA's into SRL's last week (cheaper to transform that pay for restoration at RD$25,000 or start a new corporation at roughly RD$40,000), and scrambled last week to assemble the correct documents...which is almost like starting a new corporation.

Finally on Thursday evening I thought all was done. So we went to the Camara in POP---you have to do this in the Camara the original corporation was formed---who were quite helpful, told us where a copy center was to make duplicates (which is not on their website). That done, they accepted payments, and gave a receipt with the instructions to go to the DGII a few blocks away, and submit them with the appropriate documents.

So off to DGII we went at 1:15pm...only to be told that *one more* document was needed. That was on my computer. In Jarabacoa. That had to be submitted by either 4pm in POP or Santiago. Call made to my worker in Jarabacoa to grab my computer & printer and high-tail it to Alida's family home in Santiago.

We get to Alida's by 3:10, and by 3:45 head to DGII in Santiago with the "last" document, only to be told that a page 2 was missing from a form in our document file. BUT---whew---they made a decision to close at 5pm, because they usually close at 4pm on the last business day of the month to produce reports.

WE run back to Alida's family home to find I didn't HAVE page two saved because I never SAW a page two on any form. Call the accountant, who finally found page two of the form on the DGII website...there is no indication that page two *exists* except for a tiny arrow on the bottom left of the screen (the old form was one page; I doubt we were the only ones who discovered this in front of a DGII representative)...downloaded it, filled it out with "n/a's" everywhere, sign it, and at 4:55pm were back at DGII.

Having seen us there twice, and knowing the 31st was the last day for filing the paperwork to avoid the RNCs being inactivated, the folks at DGII stayed late, to around 5:30, to help us file the paperwork. AND give us the receipt.

That didn't have to. They could easily have said "it's 5pm, we're out of here" or some variation of "no es mi culpa" and be done.

So I give both the Camara of POP and DGII of Santiago props for solid customer service.

It was a pleasant end to a hectic day.
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
When I came to DR for the first time (17 years ago), Santo Domingo was a mess, best mall in the city was Diamond Mall or Unicentro, and government institutions were inefficient houses of horror where you would spend hours just to get a simple paper or deposit a document. (But at least you could find a 'buscon' that would do (or skip) the waiting for 200 pesos).

By time things got better, the city modernized, developed and also government institutions became more efficient, buscones disappeared and I'd do basically all interactions with the government myself, with reasonable speed. 

However the last 2, 3 years or so, I feel things are going backwards. Some government offices are back to the old waiting lines, rooms full of 'mensajeros' waiting for their turn. Yesterday I was confirmed in this notion when I needed to deposit a letter in the ministry of labour. When I arrive I ask what the procedure is: get a number there and take a seat. I get a number: 07, and see on the electronic board, they are 'now serving'  07. I ask, "where do I go, since it's my turn?". Take a seat was the answer. While seated I hear another lady saying she has number 06 and wondering when they will attend her. The 'mensajeros' around us laugh and explain that we have to wait till it goes from 07 to 99 and starts over. The add that the only reason they are sitting there is because it's their job. Since the average Dominican sometimes say things just to say something or are just plain wrong , I went back to the counter where they confirmed, I had to wait the next 07. The mensajeros told me this was business as usual at the ministry of labour. Completely inefficient operation back to Hipólito or even pre-Hipólito days after all the improvements made since 2004. 

Add to this the lack of action by the government to combat crime, control the dollar, fight (or refrain from) corruption, a fake economic growth, no real progress in education (building schools is NOT the solution), progress in public health care doesn't go further than fresh up the buildings.

This country is going backwards instead of forward. Though I don't want make this political, but I can't help think about the slogan of a former election: "estábamos mejor con él".

you say that the government should control the dollar. i think you mean it should take monetary measures to stop the value from falling in relationship to the dollar. beacuse of the heavy dependence on exports, it is a balancing act to make sure that the peso is not overvalued, or else it will lose its competitive position in the tourism and commodity markets.
 

USA DOC

Bronze
Feb 20, 2016
3,162
757
113
.....fake economic growth, by means of the never ending borrowing of money by the government..........is a time bomb,that will reach a crisis in the near future...thats the one thing that is the most dangerous....The DR cant borrow or spend or steal,its way out of that one..........Doc...........
 

Mauricio

Gold
Nov 18, 2002
5,607
7
38
you say that the government should control the dollar. i think you mean it should take monetary measures to stop the value from falling in relationship to the dollar. beacuse of the heavy dependence on exports, it is a balancing act to make sure that the peso is not overvalued, or else it will lose its competitive position in the tourism and commodity markets.


Yes, what I meant is that they only control 'la tasa' by saying to the banks: don't sell above this rate: no dollars available except for when the government needs to pay debts / interests and all importing business 'al grito'. This week there was an article in diario libre about dolarizing the economy (if that's actually already going on). Maybe not a bad idea.
 

dv8

Gold
Sep 27, 2006
31,266
363
0
normally i'd be the first to bash this wretched turd world country but in my personal opinion DR has made huge changes for the better when it comes to regular daily life. the bureaucracy sucks donkey's balls everywhere but having lived though communism i never found DR overly complicated. and in comparison to, say, poland, DR is wonderfully corrupted and few pesos can go a long way if need be.

maneuvering the mess of government offices in DR is not that hard, really. new residency process is easy (i may be alone in that opinion but imma gonna stick to it), obtaining documents is easy, lots of official info can be found online.

shopping also changed for the better and the choice of imported goods in impressive, even in a campo like puerto plata. there are more flight connections. life is easier.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,370
3,150
113
Yes, what I meant is that they only control 'la tasa' by saying to the banks: don't sell above this rate: no dollars available except for when the government needs to pay debts / interests and all importing business 'al grito'. This week there was an article in diario libre about dolarizing the economy (if that's actually already going on). Maybe not a bad idea.
Dollarization articles have been popping up in Dominican newspapers since at least the 1990's. If it was meant to happen, it would had happened by now.

Other countries in Central America (namely El Salvador) dollarized their economy quite a while ago. Things there hasn't changed much. Their economy hardly grows, if at all. Their exports are minimal. Their wealthiest families make large investments in other Central American countries plus in the DR, and minimal new investments in El Salvador itself. The cost of life continues high and wages low, unemployment through the roof.

Just saying...
 

Mauricio

Gold
Nov 18, 2002
5,607
7
38
normally i'd be the first to bash this wretched turd world country but in my personal opinion DR has made huge changes for the better when it comes to regular daily life. the bureaucracy sucks donkey's balls everywhere but having lived though communism i never found DR overly complicated. and in comparison to, say, poland, DR is wonderfully corrupted and few pesos can go a long way if need be.

maneuvering the mess of government offices in DR is not that hard, really. new residency process is easy (i may be alone in that opinion but imma gonna stick to it), obtaining documents is easy, lots of official info can be found online.

shopping also changed for the better and the choice of imported goods in impressive, even in a campo like puerto plata. there are more flight connections. life is easier.



Yes, ofcourse, life is much easier than before. And government institutions improved a lot since 2000. Even many things can be requested online. I agree with that. However, when I came back to DR in 2010 I found dealings in government offices smoother than now. Procuraduría (then still on Max Gomez): half an hour and done. Last times I went: 3 and 4 hours waiting. I've been to the ministry of labour before to ask for some information, could speak with a lady almost right away, yesterday: I think I'd still sit there if I'd have waited.

i can add the complaints of many of my customers about how customs, government procurement and other departments have become more corrupt than when the former president, when the top guys would get rich but the people below would do their jobs as supposed to, while now everybody wants their cut , just like in Hipolitos time. Plus the complaints that the government is taxing and enforcing taxes like if DR were a developed country where your tax money is going to where it should instead of the pockets of the politicians. There used to be slack between what by law you were supposed to pay in taxes and what you could get away with, needed to make businesses profitable enough in an insecure environment as is DR. Now that's less and less possible while at the same time companies still have to take measures to cover for everything the government isn't doing while they should. 
 

LTSteve

Gold
Jul 9, 2010
5,449
23
38
When I came to DR for the first time (17 years ago), Santo Domingo was a mess, best mall in the city was Diamond Mall or Unicentro, and government institutions were inefficient houses of horror where you would spend hours just to get a simple paper or deposit a document. (But at least you could find a 'buscon' that would do (or skip) the waiting for 200 pesos).

By time things got better, the city modernized, developed and also government institutions became more efficient, buscones disappeared and I'd do basically all interactions with the government myself, with reasonable speed. 

However the last 2, 3 years or so, I feel things are going backwards. Some government offices are back to the old waiting lines, rooms full of 'mensajeros' waiting for their turn. Yesterday I was confirmed in this notion when I needed to deposit a letter in the ministry of labour. When I arrive I ask what the procedure is: get a number there and take a seat. I get a number: 07, and see on the electronic board, they are 'now serving'  07. I ask, "where do I go, since it's my turn?". Take a seat was the answer. While seated I hear another lady saying she has number 06 and wondering when they will attend her. The 'mensajeros' around us laugh and explain that we have to wait till it goes from 07 to 99 and starts over. The add that the only reason they are sitting there is because it's their job. Since the average Dominican sometimes say things just to say something or are just plain wrong , I went back to the counter where they confirmed, I had to wait the next 07. The mensajeros told me this was business as usual at the ministry of labour. Completely inefficient operation back to Hipólito or even pre-Hipólito days after all the improvements made since 2004. 

Add to this the lack of action by the government to combat crime, control the dollar, fight (or refrain from) corruption, a fake economic growth, no real progress in education (building schools is NOT the solution), progress in public health care doesn't go further than fresh up the buildings.

This country is going backwards instead of forward. Though I don't want make this political, but I can't help think about the slogan of a former election: "estábamos mejor con él".

Certain depts are still using old technology and are over burdened with work. I recently had to go to Social Security in the States and had to wait an hour and twenty minutes before they called my number. It is not just the DR.
 

RDKNIGHT

Bronze
Mar 13, 2017
2,715
1,435
113
Dollars go a long way to not having waiting time.. grease the palm and go its the norm here
 

LTSteve

Gold
Jul 9, 2010
5,449
23
38
normally i'd be the first to bash this wretched turd world country but in my personal opinion DR has made huge changes for the better when it comes to regular daily life. the bureaucracy sucks donkey's balls everywhere but having lived though communism i never found DR overly complicated. and in comparison to, say, poland, DR is wonderfully corrupted and few pesos can go a long way if need be.

maneuvering the mess of government offices in DR is not that hard, really. new residency process is easy (i may be alone in that opinion but imma gonna stick to it), obtaining documents is easy, lots of official info can be found online.

shopping also changed for the better and the choice of imported goods in impressive, even in a campo like puerto plata. there are more flight connections. life is easier.

Corruption is relative. Corruption in the DR is just not as hidden as we are use to in North America and Europe. A little quid pro quo is fine but when DR officials line their pockets at the expensive of projects that could benefit the country and solve major issues then it becomes personal to many people. I would think that you woud have to agree the the DR has made stides in the last 20 years, especially if you compare it to many Cental and South American Countries. It could have gone the way of the Venezuela's of the world and it is far from that. This Island nation has an ingrained history of over 500 years to mold and shape into a 21st Century world. Change often times seems like a glacier in the DR. It is moving forward but it sometimes is hard to notice.