lexical and grammatical poverty of DR

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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an interesting article in DL today about limited vocabulary and grammar of dominicans that preoccupies dominican language academy. they say that an average dominican with little or no education uses around 1,500 words; someone with university/college education uses 3,500; a professional uses 8,000 and a small number of intellectuals use around 20,000 words.

the academy wants to help dominicans learn more about their language. in order to achieve this they organize various activities throughout the country, such as book presentations, lectures, workshops, courses as well as linguistic and literary gatherings.

https://www.diariolibre.com/opinion...tical-y-eso-no-deja-de-preocuparnos-HL8386786

definitely something worth attending if i see any of those activities announced to take place in PP area.
 

CristoRey

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they say that an average dominican with little or no education uses around 1,500 words; someone with university/college education uses 3,500; a professional uses 8,000 and a small number of intellectuals use around 20,000 words.

I'm curious are these high, low or average numbers?
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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I am curious to know if this a female only thread..how can anyone know

This is the second time you posted about a thread being an all female thread in this forum. The Spanish forum has been around for 12 years and has never been an all female forum.


Please don’t distract another thread with this question because it will get deleted.


-MP.
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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an interesting article in DL today about limited vocabulary and grammar of dominicans that preoccupies dominican language academy. they say that an average dominican with little or no education uses around 1,500 words; someone with university/college education uses 3,500; a professional uses 8,000 and a small number of intellectuals use around 20,000 words.

the academy wants to help dominicans learn more about their language. in order to achieve this they organize various activities throughout the country, such as book presentations, lectures, workshops, courses as well as linguistic and literary gatherings.

https://www.diariolibre.com/opinion...tical-y-eso-no-deja-de-preocuparnos-HL8386786

definitely something worth attending if i see any of those activities announced to take place in PP area.

I read the article and really where does one begin? To a certain extent Dominican speech from an academic stand point has issues. A small segment of the population that has access to education comparable to high standards in other countries will benefit from an initiative like this. However, the rest of the population that has a public school education, some education or none at all will not benefit from this initiative.

First of all, how literate is the target group? Books, workshops, academic presentations will challenge a semi-illiterate population. I think what the academy wants to do is fantastic but they need to make sure they reach that segment of society that is referenced in the article in order to make a change in the Dominican vernacular. 

In the article, a comparison is made to only one country, Mexico. It would have been valuable to compare it to at least one country in each region. In the article, it is stated that a Mexican street vendor has a better command of Spanish than a Dominican street vendor. It’s one example and overly simplified which does not scratch the surface regarding the scope required.

However, anyone who has familiarity with Dominican speech as compared to Spanish spoken in other countries should recognize la pobreza del idioma and it’s about time an academic institution addresses it because the education system is broken.

One aspect I also look at is the literary contributions. As an avid reader of Spanish literature I always ask myself where are the Dominican authors? They should be throwing their hat in the arena with other huge producing countries such as Mexico, Colombia, Cuba, Argentina, Uruguay, Peru, and Spain. These countries have major contributions to literature. However, it’s tied to this academic problem which has hampered speech, literacy, and having a good command of Spanish of a large segment of the population.

How I would love to see this have a positive impact in years to come. I hope the launch and the initiative inspire the academy to be more involved in addressing some of they key issues of the Dominican speech population.


-MP.
 

Chirimoya

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I'd also be concerned about the deterioration of Spanish among the privately educated segment because of the dominance of English in bilingual schools.
 

USA DOC

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.....It needs to be started in the first grades of school.....and actually reading books would be a good step forward.......
 

Africaida

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Jun 19, 2009
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In the article, a comparison is made to only one country, Mexico. It would have been valuable to compare it to at least one country in each region. In the article, it is stated that a Mexican street vendor has a better command of Spanish than a Dominican street vendor. It’s one example and overly simplified which does not scratch the surface regarding the scope required.

That was immediately my thought...How does it compare to other countries ?

A modo de ejemplo, hizo una comparación sobre el uso de la lengua entre un vendedor de tortillas de México y un platanero dominicano, poniendo en relieve que el primero pronuncia debidamente las eses y el criollo no.

Especially, that they only note the difference in pronunciation.

In any case, I don't see things getting better with social media, texting and such. But, I am sure it could be said of any languages.
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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That was immediately my thought...How does it compare to other countries ?

A modo de ejemplo, hizo una comparación sobre el uso de la lengua entre un vendedor de tortillas de México y un platanero dominicano, poniendo en relieve que el primero pronuncia debidamente las eses y el criollo no.

Especially, that they only note the difference in pronunciation.

In any case, I don't see things getting better with social media, texting and such. But, I am sure it could be said of any languages.


I know in an article space is limited but they should have listed more examples in point form just to show the vastness and scope of the topic and issue at hand. One Mexican street vendor that appears to have spoken better than a Dominican one does not suffice to say that Mexicans have a better command of Spanish. They should have given more examples. Surely there is a segment of the Mexican population with similar issues about language.

Nevertheless the Dominican problem is real and very complex. Speech patterns extend across the Caribbean. I spent a week in Miami at the beginning of this month and enjoyed the variety and mixture of Spanish I heard. Unbelievable! The dominance of Spanish is something one has to experience to believe. No need to go to Cuba. Go to Miami. I heard all the typical Caribbean speech patterns and I really believe many are too ingrained. It would be very difficult to break certain syntax structure, grammatical patterns etc. like what the academy is proposing but the first steps are awareness and exposure. If more Dominicans had exposure to Spanish as spoken outside of the DR via books, workshops, articles, and proper academic instruction they would be on the road to better speech.

I think the internet is a double edge sword- un arma de doble filo. While it certainly would be a source of language corruption it’s a tremendous resource with a wealth of information.



-MP.
 

2dlight

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Jun 3, 2004
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Pollo al Carbom, Se vusca mecera, Bano(~) de cavalleros,...domingo serado(cerrado). These are but a few examples of what I see while walking or riding around from Juan Dolio to Bani. Many of these are professionally produced and not just hand written on a piece of cardboard at a hole-in-the-wall colmado. I agree with Africaida that social media and texting are not making things any better. The examples there I find even more disturbing: kiere, boy(voy), bamos, ise, emos...
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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That was immediately my thought...How does it compare to other countries ?

A modo de ejemplo, hizo una comparación sobre el uso de la lengua entre un vendedor de tortillas de México y un platanero dominicano, poniendo en relieve que el primero pronuncia debidamente las eses y el criollo no.

Especially, that they only note the difference in pronunciation.

In any case, I don't see things getting better with social media, texting and such. But, I am sure it could be said of any languages.

great observation about social media. i guess that there is some nexus between texting and phonetic spelling..
 

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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A differentiation needs to be made between regional dialects and lazy speech. The words exist in dictionaries and are used by those with a need for precise descriptive speaking. Any speaker these days has to acknowledge that using higher constructs of language will not be understood by a significant segment of the possible audience.

Media news including newspapers are all presented at about a NA grade 8 reading/comprehension level to be inclusive of the largest possible audience. Most audiences don't want to think about what they have just seen, heard or read. They prefer to consume the message, accept it at face value and move on to the next item of attention. Thou shall never consult a dictionary seems to have become the 11th commandment.

Using language and choosing words that best convey the preciseness of the thought being expressed is a skill that requires a rounded vocabulary, consistent usage, practice and an audience that knows what a word like "paucity" or "asqueroso" means. It is also fundamentally important for both the speaker and the listener to be able to appreciate the context of the speech. Unfortunately, language like other cerebral skills are falling by the wayside due to laziness, lack of education and no recognition of the benefits in preserving the skills as they have become unimportant to many. Context is such a foreign concept these days for a lot of people who always default to the literal interpretation which often results in misunderstanding.

I see it all the time. Some very cleverly constructed ideas are typed out in a post and 3/4 of the readers miss the point entirely. On the news, listening to people being interviews by a reporter, I am appalled when I hear "gutter" speech such as, "He axed me to rob the bank with him" or "Should I come with?" When I was in school, a dangling preposition was enough to get a ruler whacked across your knuckles. Today the practice is so ubiquitous that I hear it used in mainstream TV shows all the time. I cringe at the thought of writers not caring enough about the use and preservation of properly constructed sentences. Our media and our own choices are contributing to the dumbing down of our societies.

The lack of globally accessible high standard language instruction in the primary grades coupled with the lack of opportunity to use and expand a robust vocabulary in the DR contributes to the trend of language obsolescence.

Here in the DR and in every country around the world, the preservation and correct use of language to convey ideas and concepts precisely and succinctly should be an ongoing priority. Unfortunately, it is not and we as individuals and a society are worse off for it.
 

Fulano2

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Jun 5, 2011
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Pollo al Carbom, Se vusca mecera, Bano(~) de cavalleros,...domingo serado(cerrado). These are but a few examples of what I see while walking or riding around from Juan Dolio to Bani. Many of these are professionally produced and not just hand written on a piece of cardboard at a hole-in-the-wall colmado. I agree with Africaida that social media and texting are not making things any better. The examples there I find even more disturbing: kiere, boy(voy), bamos, ise, emos...



Queso horlandes...
Juan Bueno the cheese maker here. I showed him my caliber 12... 

Just kidding of course.
 

Caonabo

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Sep 27, 2017
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I'd also be concerned about the deterioration of Spanish among the privately educated segment because of the dominance of English in bilingual schools.

I wouldn't be too concerned in this regard due to the fact that the private bilingual schools are usually well staffed featuring their fair share of Spanish courses as well, with proper instructional methods. As in some countries, I'd be more concerned about the public schooling and lack of well trained educators they possess. Most private bilingual schools are hiring instructors with very decent resumes.
 

Dr_Taylor

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Oct 18, 2017
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I wouldn't be too concerned in this regard due to the fact that the private bilingual schools are usually well staffed featuring their fair share of Spanish courses as well, with proper instructional methods. As in some countries, I'd be more concerned about the public schooling and lack of well trained educators they possess. Most private bilingual schools are hiring instructors with very decent resumes.

This situation is not limited to the DR. The US, heaven forbid, exhibits some of the same nuisances. As someone who taught masters-level education students in the US, let me be the first to say that you would not want some of these "educators" teaching your kids.
 

dv8

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Sep 27, 2006
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In any case, I don't see things getting better with social media, texting and such. But, I am sure it could be said of any languages.

personally i feel the social media could be a saving grace, if used well. language academy could utilize text messages, intsta and twitter in in their program directed to improve language skills of dominicans. starting from something as simple as "word of the day" sent to mobile phone users, ending with short online competitions. social media is a great tool that is sadly often mishandled.

still, i appreciate the efforts of the government to fix the basic issues in DR such as their literacy campaign and introducing extended school hours. although truth be told we will not see a full effect of this work in our lifetime, i guess. it takes time to turn the tables and there is much work to be done.
 

GringoRubio

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Oct 15, 2015
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This is definitely not a problem limited to dominicans. However, in the US and Europe, it's really a question about motivation because there is a plethora of opportunities from the library to the online world. If all you want to do is watch memes on Facebook and twitter, you turn into a semi illiterate stimulation junkie. It would be an extraordinary accomplishment to peck out a message in excess of 120 characters.

In the DR as a normal kid in an average house, you're screwed. You have no access to reading materials except what you can download on the web. You're lucky if you go to school and luckier yet if you learn anything. There's is no role models; nothing.

The 10 year old in the house was ignoring his homework. His mom finally got on him and I thought this was going to be good entertainment, so I paused my reading to watch. It lasted 90 seconds where he was forced to read a couple of sentences. That done, he went back to his tablet for a game. WTF? I waved him over and we spent 15 minutes going through his course work and I gave him 30 pesos as reward for the colmado.

The kid is exceptionally bright. I found some books in Arithmetic and Algebra in Spanish, and I've been tutoring him. He really enjoys the intellectual stimulation although, like me, he hates the rote learning such as English, but I suspect English is his key to a bigger world. I've been trying to locate more textbooks for the sciences, but they are hard to come by in Spanish. (Someday, I hope to semi retire as a school teacher.)

I've been paying for the neighborhood urchin to attend school for the first time. He uses his wits to ditch school and spend the money on something else. He's smart too, but in a very different way....
 

Cdn_Gringo

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Apr 29, 2014
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GringoRubio,

Good points, many I was considering making myself. As a suggestion, see if you can find some Hardy Boys series type books in Spanish for the young lad. Once exposed and forced to read the first one, every book for leisure after that is a bit easier if they enjoy what they are reading.

Libraries here would be a big help but I suspect more would borrow than would return.