porqué / porque / por qué / por que

Because, because, because , because, because... Because of the wonderful things he does.

How would that be translated properly?

dv8 said:

real academia española explains differences between those forms:
https://www.diariolibre.com/revista...-que-por-que-la-rae-aclara-sus-usos-BN8816298
i am a bruta, i did not know any of it.

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DV8 you did not know about this grammar point?

I must ask so did you even notice the four different ways it's written all with a different grammatical function?


This is a classic grammar point on exams although how much emphasis is placed on it today I can't say. At some point one who studies Spanish grammar at an intermediate level or higher will run into it and it's an important one because it can change the meaning of a phrase completely. However, there are many people (Spanish speakers) that have no clue what the difference is not only you.

IMO the most challenging one is por que which is really el cual, la cual but you just have to know how to use it. I have not read the article yet because it's a grammar point I understand but I will read it shortly.



-MP.

dv8 said:

real academia española explains differences between those forms:
https://www.diariolibre.com/revista...-que-por-que-la-rae-aclara-sus-usos-BN8816298
i am a bruta, i did not know any of it.

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Great grammar topic but the article IMO does not clarify the grammar point clearly with some of the examples given.

For example, in section a) the second phrase. That example is not good. That example does not clarify the usage of el porqué. The first and third ones do but the second one I have questions.


-MP.

dv8 said:

real academia española explains differences between those forms:
https://www.diariolibre.com/revista...-que-por-que-la-rae-aclara-sus-usos-BN8816298
i am a bruta, i did not know any of it.

Click to expand...

Here are links with simpler explanations and good examples. The second example in the first section in Diario Libre is a mystery to me. El porqué is a noun therefore, I do not understand it.


This is a good website for grammar in general and good reading passages for practice.

https://www.spanish.cl/Grammar/Notes/por-que-porque.htm


Wikilengua (believe it or not but it is from Fundéu BBVA so it's credible)

http://www.wikilengua.org/index.php/porque/porqué/por_que/por_qué




-MP.

dv8 said:

i really did not know. i never studied spanish, all i know i learnt from dominican newspapers which are not particularly advanced resources. never even noticed different forms.

the first article you linked explains the issue in a way i can understand best, thank you!

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Well, you can certainly learn informally. There is no question about it and use all resources including newspapers. However, I tell anyone when asked for advice and I will tell you as well because you like languages. Keep doing what you are doing but at some point if you continue to have interest in Spanish I recommend that you pick up a grammar book because you want make sure you are speaking correctly and get exposure to more concepts.

The spoken language and reading won’t give you everything. As well, just to have grammatical clarity. That’s where it gets fun because then you realize how well or badly people speak on a daily basis. In my experience, even those who speak well there is always something. The grammar book brings to light plenty of linguistic concepts.

Diario Libre corrected their error:

I went back to the article again and looked at that example and guess what they fixed it. Could it be that maybe somebody read this thread? I could not figure out how that example, the second one in section A made any sense.

Now it’s correct. Anyway there is a lot grammar of material on the internet. You just have to know how to pick and choose.


-MP.

dv8 said:

thanks you for the words of encouragement. years ago - literally - i bought this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Practice-Mak...5441&sr=8-1&keywords=complete+spanish+grammar
only to flip through the pages and toss it on the side (in my defense i did not speak a word of spanish back then).
my resolution for the new year is to spend more time with books and less with the computer. the plan was to give few hours a week to spanish and one more language.

with your post i feel very motivated to improve

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Todo a su tiempo. You tossed it aside because you were not ready to start learning the language formally. In a way it is good that it happened because you probably would not have gotten much out of it. Your perspective has shifted now and you want to learn and apply what you know. That makes a huge difference.

I totally approve of your choice. That resource and the Practice Makes Perfect series by McGraw Hill for Spanish language learning in general are very good. The grammar lessons are relevant and provide ample opportunity to practice grammar concepts taught in each lesson. As long as you study at your level, you will find the lessons very helpful. They usually come with an answer key at the back of the book so you can check your answers and monitor your progress after each lesson.

That book is one of the newer ones. It combines the grammar all in one. They have other books that focus on verb conjugation only, vocabulary, reading etc. Therefore, you have options.

Well, I am curious to know what grammar concepts you will find most challenging. Some are predictable like the subjunctive mood, verbs in general, por vs para, ser vs estar but those concepts may be your strengths. Remember it is recommended that you study daily. Let’s say an hour a day rather than two hours once a week. Consistency is key and practice speaking Spanish. The advantage you have is you live in a Spanish-speaking country. You will have no shortage of opportunity to test the waters.

If you have any questions about a grammar concept feel free to start a thread or send me a PM. Estoy segura de que te puedo ayudar.



-MP.

Marianopolita said:

Great grammar topic but the article IMO does not clarify the grammar point clearly with some of the examples given.

For example, in section a) the second phrase. That example is not good. That example does not clarify the usage of el porqué. The first and third ones do but the second one I have questions.


-MP.

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I think they should have written: El porqué de Trujillo ceder parte del territorio de RD a Haití. 

Mauricio said:

I think they should have written: El porqué de Trujillo ceder parte del territorio de RD a Haití. 

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Look at the article now. Somebody caught it and that title was in other sections of the paper. Unbelievable.



-MP.

Marianopolita said:

Look at the article now. Somebody caught it and that title was in other sections of the paper. Unbelievable.



-MP.

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I look at the article but I still see what I think you saw: el porqué Trujillo cedió...etc.

Mauricio said:

I look at the article but I still see what I think you saw: el porqué Trujillo cedió...etc.

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Yes, and they corrected the issue that I was questioning. Previously ‘el’ was missing which did not make sense with what they are trying to convey.


-MP.

Marianopolita said:

Yes, and they corrected the issue that I was questioning. Previously ‘el’ was missing which did not make sense with what they are trying to convey.


-MP.

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It still seems wrong to me how it is now:
In “el porque Trujillo cedió”, porque is still not a noun, the article ‘El’ refers to the sentence ‘porque Trujillo cedió’, not an article for the noun porque. (Which doesn’t seem to make sense in this phrase though, but for example in the phrase ‘El porqué Trujillo cedió parte de RD es una pregunta valida’). If it was a noun it would be possible to make it plural (and still make sense): ‘Los porqués Trujillo cedió’ doesn’t seem correct grammatically (either). I’d expect: El porqué (noun) DE Trujillo CEDER parte de RD a Haití.  Or maybe another construction which makes porqué a noun.

What do you think?

Mauricio said:

It still seems wrong to me how it is now:
In “el porque Trujillo cedió”, porque is still not a noun, the article ‘El’ refers to the sentence ‘porque Trujillo cedió’, not an article for the noun porque. (Which doesn’t seem to make sense in this phrase though, but for example in the phrase ‘El porqué Trujillo cedió parte de RD es una pregunta valida’). If it was a noun it would be possible to make it plural (and still make sense): ‘Los porqués Trujillo cedió’ doesn’t seem correct grammatically (either). I’d expect: El porqué (noun) DE Trujillo CEDER parte de RD a Haití.  Or maybe another construction which makes porqué a noun.

What do you think?

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The sentence is fine the way Diario Libre has it in Spanish now and makes sense. After all, they made their own correction when they realized the ‘el’ was missing. That is all that I was questioning.



-MP.

dv8 said:

not that i am the brightest tool in this box, having admitted my ignorance on the issue already.

however, the way i understand this, "porque" in this particular case is a noun: "reason". hence "el porque" = "the reason". "the reason he gave it away". i guess that in english you could also say "the reason for him to give it away" (which is what you are aiming at here) but that would not roll off my tongue easily.

personally i would go with "la razón" because the first rule i learnt at school is to go with the structures and expressions you know and understand even if they are simple. it's better to use simple language and be understood than aim too high and mess up

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I guess you are right. When Marianopolita repeated the sentence was good like that I repeated the sentence for myself. It still sounds / seems odd to me but that’s maybe  because in Dutch I wouldn’t use it like that. I’m expecting an other word between porque and Trujillo if porque is to be a noun. 

Dv8 et al.


You have to be careful how you write these words. They are four different components of grammar. I noticed in the posts above inconsistencies.

a) Porqué (sustantivo)

b) Por qué (question word)

c) Porque (because= conjunction)

d) por que ( = por el cual, por la cual)


Sentences like the ones in Diario Libre exist:

1) El porqué Trujillo cedió parte del territorio de RD a Haiti ( no 'de' needed after porqué in this phrase)



Here is another phrase I found on the internet with the same construction which is also correct:

2) El porqué Romeo Santos es el Rey de la Bachata (Entrevista Completa)



There are constructions in which de is used after porqué but the meaning is slightly different.


I think that is where the confusion is but by putting de the nuance is different and so is the construction of the phrase.


Try to think in Spanish. It makes sense.


-MP.

My limited mastery of Spanish makes me see "el porque'" as "the why" or "the reason why" as its equivalent in English.