Haiti has no chance of improvement

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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As someone who is only a casual observer of the situation in Haiti, I found out that we have new neighbors that are a married couple who spent over five years trying to help in Haiti as volunteers. The man has spent time in various locations such as Afghanistan before Haiti and is no stranger to countries facing severe hardships. In Haiti they saw challenges of no reliable supply of water, insufficient food supply, no basic necessities (they made regular trips to Pricesmart in Santiago for toilet paper and toothpaste) , open sewers in the streets. The woman dared not drive alone because it was so dangerous. She got cholera and almost died and also contracted some parasite that caused her to lose her hair in clumps that was cured by a trip to the US.

After hearing the above and a lot more about Haiti, I asked a blunt question. Is there a chance for Haiti to recover?

There answer was an emphatic no. There is no amount of NGO/Clinton Foundation/Do-gooder donations of time and money that will get Haiti into a situation where it is a viable state. No chance at all. Zero. As in not ever happening. It is a perpetual failed state.

They said the only way things could improve, and this solution is totally untenable, is that if everyone that was currently there were to be replaced with people that have a common goal to unite instead of just survive day by day. They saw first hand how impossible this will be in a country where there are not even passable roads from north to south and east to west.

This explains why there are so many Haitians in the DR in a way that I suspected was true myself. They really have zero hope in Haiti and never will.
 

rfp

Gold
Jul 5, 2010
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Conan Obrien loves the place.  We just need more love inclusion and transfer of wealth
 

cavok

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Jun 16, 2014
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I agree. There is absolutely no chance for Haiti to ever get better. All the charitable donations of money, food, basic necesities, etc(much of which "disapperars" anyway), and all the hard work by NGO's and volunteers like you mentioned, amount to nothing more than hospice on a dying patient.

It will never happen, but I think the only thing that could change the direction in which Haiti is headed would be for a group of nations including the US, Canada, and some from Europe to install a provisional government and make a much more substantial commitment to Haiti's future than at present.
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
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I agree. There is absolutely no chance for Haiti to ever get better. All the charitable donations of money, food, basic necesities, etc(much of which "disapperars" anyway), and all the hard work by NGO's and volunteers like you mentioned, amount to nothing more than hospice on a dying patient.

It will never happen, but I think the only thing that could change the direction in which Haiti is headed would be for a group of nations including the US, Canada, and some from Europe to install a provisional government and make a much more substantial commitment to Haiti's future than at present.

the US, Canada, and Europe..

i get it...
 

caribmike

Gold
Jul 9, 2009
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And then there are forces that wish to unify the DR with Haiti. Why? To bring down the DR to that level too?
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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I agree. There is absolutely no chance for Haiti to ever get better. All the charitable donations of money, food, basic necesities, etc(much of which "disapperars" anyway), and all the hard work by NGO's and volunteers like you mentioned, amount to nothing more than hospice on a dying patient.

It will never happen, but I think the only thing that could change the direction in which Haiti is headed would be for a group of nations including the US, Canada, and some from Europe to install a provisional government and make a much more substantial commitment to Haiti's future than at present.
Nation building has such an excellent track record.

Maybe one of Haiti's #1 problems IS international interference.

Maybe all foreign do-gooders should just get the hell out and let Haiti figure it out for themselves.
 

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
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Nation building has such an excellent track record.

Maybe one of Haiti's #1 problems IS international interference.

Maybe all foreign do-gooders should just get the hell out and let Haiti figure it out for themselves.

Nation building after totally destroying it certainly hasn't had much of a track record lately. I don't think Haiti is capable of figuring it out for themselves. They've passed the point of no return.
 

cbmitch9

Bronze
Nov 3, 2010
845
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Nation building after totally destroying it certainly hasn't had much of a track record lately. I don't think Haiti is capable of figuring it out for themselves. They've passed the point of no return.

And they are past the point of no return due to the interference of other nations. Instead of teaching the Haitians how to govern, educate themselves, sustain themselves, etc..The "nation builders" entered and did what they always do. They never try to understand the root cause of the issues. They just barrell in and try to do it their way. Heck, the form of democracy that most foreign countries want for Haiti, just won't work. It may take generations to fix what's wrong with that country.
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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dr1.com
Nation building has such an excellent track record.

Maybe one of Haiti's #1 problems IS international interference.

Maybe all foreign do-gooders should just get the hell out and let Haiti figure it out for themselves.
Thats fine if you can keep them there, but that is impossible.
 

GringoRubio

Bronze
Oct 15, 2015
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Is there a chance for Haiti to recover?

Yes, of course. There are countless examples in history were things were impossibly bad, but eventually, the ship rights itself.

One thing that would help is to make the NGO's accountable for measurable improvements. As is, they just perpetuate the current system (and themselves) and even foster learned helplessness and corruption.

Also, it would great if the USA/CIA didn't meddle in internal politics. Generally, powers get invited in by a faction or factions and I can't think of a single example where this worked well. It generally results in blow back as it did with:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide

When the military Junta had to be forced out of power.
 

GringoRubio

Bronze
Oct 15, 2015
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The only way for Haiti to be able to recuperate is when there's one Haitian with so much charisma and the will and balls to root out corruption.
Wishful thinking. :ermm:

You're describing: Jean-Bertrand Aristide

They guy survived so many assassination attempts that he was almost immortal. Unfortunately, the CIA eventually bundled him up and put him on a plane. By the time they returned him to power, the narcotraffickers owned the country.

I bought a book on him that I'm looking forward to amazon delivering.
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
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That would definitely be the best solution, one that I would prefer, but I don't think they have the capability, or desire, to do more than "band-aid" the current situation there.

and you think Americans, Canadians, and Europeans can do more than a band aid, right?

i am all ears. tell me why you think so...