Grammar anomalies in Spanish

Marianopolita

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I read an article last night about charging your cell phone 5 falsos mitos a la hora de cargar tu móvil and was surprised to come across a known grammar anomaly in Spanish especially because the author is from Spain. Just to clarify I am not saying grammar anomalies are not possible in Spanish spoken by Spaniards or speakers from that region but it was the grammar point itself that in my experience was considered common in Latin America but I guess not.


In the article the author uses la calor which in standard grammar is a masculine noun el calor .

However, it is a known fact that in parts of Latin America some speakers say la calor. One example is in Chile and certain Andean regions. There are also other nouns with gender variations in Spanish. For example, la sartén vs. el sartén , el mar vs. la marel azúcar vs. la azúcar, etc. For me it is la sartén el mar and el azúcar but I have seen the variations and in some cases it is contextual. 


I have noticed some more anomalies but what grammar anomalies have you noticed in Spanish?



-MP.
 

Marianopolita

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El agua esta fria

That is correct grammar and not an anomaly.

Agua is a feminine noun but because the first syllable is stressed in accordance with grammar rules to avoid cacaphony (awkward phonetic pronounciation) the rule is la agua in the singular becomes el agua. In the plural it goes back to las aguas. The plural S in las breaks up the clash of the two As in the singular la agua.


Actually, the anomaly would be the other way around meaning if people say la agua.


In my examples, in my first post some are considered incorrect if the standard gender is not used.


-MP.
 

drstock

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El agua esta fria

That's because Agua starts with A, so it is easier (and correct) to say "el agua" rather than "la agua" (with two As together), even though it is feminine. Many other nouns that begin with A are the same.

Marianopolita got in just before me!
 

Marianopolita

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That's because Agua starts with A, so it is easier (and correct) to say "el agua" rather than "la agua" (with two As together), even though it is feminine. Many other nouns that begin with A are the same.

Marianopolita got in just before me!




Specifically, not because the word begins with A. It is because the A is the stressed syllable. If it is not the stressed syllable then la is the article.


-MP.
 
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Marianopolita

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No anomalies? Everything you hear in Spanish sounds correct?


I will add a few more I thought of to add to the thread. 


Definition of anomaly:

‘Something that deviates from what is standard, normal or expected’.

‘A deviation from the common rule, type, arrangement or form’.



More anomalies that I hear or have heard:


1) el azúcar vs. la azúcar - this example falls into the same category as the examples in my first post. These are nouns with an ambiguous gender. However, in my experience el azúcar is quite common but I do see in articles la azúcar and food articles that state azúcar morena.


2) the diminutive of la mano. This one people ask about often if they are paying attention in conversation with a group of speakers from different countries but the DPD and other resources have feedback about usage.

Do you hear la manito or la manita and question which is considered correct taking into account the rules of grammar?

3) I am reading a novel as we speak and one of the one of characters just asked- ¿qué horas son?. This one in my opinion is a true anomaly although you will hear it quite a bit especially in some regions. The standard is ¿qué hora es?

4) the usage of a por. If you read newspapers from Spain or novels written by Spanish authors you will come across this usage. For example, voy a por pan. Meaning I am going to get bread. Folks just to be simple you will not hear that in Latin America at all and it is not accepted as proper grammar. It is Voy por pan



-MP.
 

2dlight

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I often hear "de nosotros" to indicate possession instead of nuestro/nuestra; from what I've read it's acceptable when meaning "ours" It just sounds odd to me. Any thoughts? As far as el azúcar vs la azúcar, there could be some funny combinations:...hechale la azúcar morena, morena/o. 
 

Marianopolita

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I often hear "de nosotros" to indicate possession instead of nuestro/nuestra; from what I've read it's acceptable when meaning "ours" It just sounds odd to me. Any thoughts? As far as el azúcar vs la azúcar, there could be some funny combinations:...hechale la azúcar morena, morena/o. 


With possessive phrases you have the option of using a possessive adjective such as nuestro or the de + pronoun structure such as de nosotros both meaning our. The grammar point to lookup for this is Possesive adjectives. Sounds okay to me.  


"It's one o'clock" - is the correct way to say it "es la una"?
Yes. Why? What other way have you heard?


-MP.
 

Chirimoya

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With possessive phrases you have the option of using a possessive adjective such as nuestro or the de + pronoun structure such as de nosotros both meaning our. The grammar point to lookup for this is Possesive adjectives. Sounds okay to me.  


Yes. Why? What other way have you heard?


-MP.

"Son las... es la una" :D
 

Marianopolita

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"Son las... es la una" :D



From kids, adults or people learning the language, uneducated folks?

Seems isolated to me.


I would not include that in the category of an anomaly since it is not something that is said by a large numbers of speakers. Errors stating the time happen but anomalies are usually grammatical errors that are common across a large speech population and have been critiqued by grammarians, the governing body of the language etc.


-MP.
 
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dv8

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not sure if anomaly or just general weirdness: el computador and la computadora. both are apparently correct but how can that be that computer can be translated to both?

i cannot think of anything in particular right now but sometimes i have an issue with names of places. there is a small village on the way to imbert called "los cruz". it is my understanding that some of those places are named after the families residing in the area, there is also los polancos and los bonillas but it grates on my nerves.
 

Mauricio

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I often correct my children, when they say ‘yo me recuerdo’. It’s ‘yo recuerdo’ or ‘yo me acuerdo’. 
 

Marianopolita

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not sure if anomaly or just general weirdness: el computador and la computadora. both are apparently correct but how can that be that computer can be translated to both?

i cannot think of anything in particular right now but sometimes i have an issue with names of places. there is a small village on the way to imbert called "los cruz". it is my understanding that some of those places are named after the families residing in the area, there is also los polancos and los bonillas but it grates on my nerves.


In brief:


La computadora- common usage in Latin America

El ordenador- common usage in Spain (following Latin and French)

El computador- regional usage-. This word is the odd one out and definitely is not as common.


If the names of town are named after a family then the standard in Spanish is to pluralize the article + the family name. For example, los Pérez, los Heredia. In traditional Spanish grammar S is not added to the end of the last name like in English. However, according to this reference of contemporary Spanish usage the S is optional (this is the first time I have seen that in grammar).

Here is the link. I do have this grammar manual BTW. Look at page 297- (b)


https://books.google.ca/books?id=Cl...panish: A Guide to contemporary usage&f=false




-MP.
 
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Marianopolita

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I often correct my children, when they say ‘yo me recuerdo’. It’s ‘yo recuerdo’ or ‘yo me acuerdo’. 


That is an example of grammar errors that people make when they are learning the language. I think your kids are young based on what you are saying. Once you keep correcting them they will eventually note the difference but it is not an anomaly meaning there is not a group of Spanish speakers using one to mean the other and then eventually both become interchangeable. That is not happening in the Spanish-speaking world. The difference is clearly noted in grammar references and the dictionary.


Recordar also means to remind someone- For example, Recuérdame cuando llegues mañana.



-MP.
 

Marianopolita

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el/la azucar RAE states both are correct.


There was never any doubt as to whether both are correct. They both are and these types of nouns are called ambiguous nouns in Spanish because both genders can be used. Both my Post #1 and #6 have ambiguous nouns. In the dictionary you willl see m/f or amb beside the noun.  


What varies is the usage and in most cases it is regional and/ or varies by speaker. However, in the case of el mar vs la mar the usage of one or the other is specific. In general, I mentioned these anomalies because some speakers have not even noticed them due to no exposure to Spanish spoken in other countries and as a result do not even know that these variations exist.


-MP.
 
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Chirimoya

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Does this qualify? The generic noun is feminine but does not change even if the specific subject is male: "La victima, un joven de 26 años...".
 

Marianopolita

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Does this qualify? The generic noun is feminine but does not change even if the specific subject is male: "La victima, un joven de 26 años...".


No, it does not.


La víctima puede ser hombre o mujer. 

La víctima = la persona. The person can be male or female and is usually clarified in the sentence if more details are provided.

In English too, although nouns don’t have genders when one refers to the victim it is unknown if the victim is male or female without detail.

Anomalies are grammar points that go against the standard rules of grammar but exist in the language although grudgingly in some cases and become noted (regional) variations, exceptions etc by the governing body such as the RAE and /or its sister affiliations.


-MP.
 
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dv8

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how about MODELO (in reference to a female fashion/catwalk model)? why not modelo for male models and modela for females?