US Marines Occupy Haina and Embajador Hotel. 82nd Airborne Lands at San Isidro.

Apr 26, 2002
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These were the events of April 1965. Ultimately, 15,000 US troops would occupy the country. I pose the question for anyone familiar with the history ? preferably people who were there or have second hand knowledge: Was the US invasion of Santo Domingo justified? Can anybody provide useful facts?

That the US lied in its public explanation for the invasion ? ostensibly to protect American lives from an anarchistic bloodbath ? is a historical fact. Americans were never in particular danger, except from, perhaps, the strafing of the Capital by the P-51s of the Trujilloista forces). The invasion was actually precipitated when Trujilloista General Wessin y Wessin?s final efforts to push out of San Isidro were crushed, and occurred when the civil war was essentially over.

It was really all about the Cold War. But, in my mind, questions remain. Was the overthrown President Bosch a communist who would have allied with Castro? Was the Constitutionalist leader Camaano at the time a Castroista? (Yes, I know that he was backed by Castro later on.) Would the Constitutionalists have lost control to communist elements within? Would the US have forced the Constitutionalists to align with the Soviets, as many say it did to Cuba? Or was it just another example of the US overreacting to events in its backyard pool? Is it relevant that Bosch went on to found the centrist PLD? Many Dominicans fall on both sides of these questions.
 
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ricktoronto

Grande Pollo en Boca Chica
Jan 9, 2002
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Read "Overtaken by Events" by John Barlow Martin

or Rag-Tags, Scum, Riff-Raff and Commies: The U.S. Intervention in the Dominican Republic, 1965-1966.

Martin was the US Ambassador to DR from 1960 to 1964 and wrote this book shortly after he retired from public service. Hard to find, but worth it via Amazon etc.

The full title is : Overtaken by Events: The Dominican Crisis from the Fall of Trujillo to the Civil War (1966)
 

ricktoronto

Grande Pollo en Boca Chica
Jan 9, 2002
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This is a quote from Overtaken by Events

In fact the interesting thing is that the ambassador was not a career diplomat but quite a well regarded writer so the book is very good reading and I don't know how much jingoism he innately had working for Kennedy vs. someone with a career in the diplomatic corps, so his book may be a better than average portrayal than others.

There used to be a few copies used on Amazon Z Shops, I cannot find any now but as a used book it should be available for around $20 or so.
 

mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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It's going to take me a while to get through it too, but it is very interesting to know what went on there a few years before my family discovered the DR for ourselves ;)
mk
 
Apr 26, 2002
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La Guardia Nacional

Facsinating article. I was not aware of the 1963 Haitian crisis. From the article, I gleam:

--- From Ambassador Martin's perspective, Bosch was an amatuer, but not a communist. In fact, Bosch appeared to be relying on the direction and support of the US.

--- Bosch did not want to alienate the far left because he needed its support to a certain extent.

--- The Trujilloistas would have aligned with the Soviets or anyone else if they thought it would put them back in power.

--- Bosch was woefully ignorant about the capabilities of the Dominican state.

--- The Dominican armed forces were (and probably still are) a joke - essentially only capable of internal police-like actions.

Notably, in Bosch's book, he wrote that he believed that Martin sabotaged his war efforts by conspiring with his military. He believed that Martin fed Wessin & Wessin the story about the trucks, tanks, planes and ships not working.

Many questions remain. What were Caamano's designs? Would the communists have seized the moment - with Bosch never returning? What were Wessin & Wessin's designs?

And another question that comes to mind, though perhaps for a separate thread, is whether the Dominican armed forces serve any purpose and whether they should be abolished, like in Costa Rica - with the money diverted to a more professional and well-funded police force and border guard force.
 

ricktoronto

Grande Pollo en Boca Chica
Jan 9, 2002
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About Finding the Book

Since reading it is more informative than the article, I found many copies available through www.bookfinder.com (a central location for many used/rare booksellers who sell online) ranging in price from $6.00 to over $50.00. Since I had donated my copy to a resident of Boca Chica I managed to buy the $6.00 copy. Libraries will probably have it, maybe even Kellogg in Santo Domingo.
 
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Thank you Rick, I was able to find an inscribed cloth covered copy for $50.00

Janice
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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A few thoughts based on my memories of the time:

The US did use the fear of the spread of communism as a reason for the invasion. It was probably not justifiable. One story was that Che Guevara was coming to the island to help lead the revolution...the other side of the story is that he supposedly arrived and Caamano Deno threw him off the island. The other was the Communists were taking over the 14 de Junio movement and would then take over the country. I knew people on both sides of the revolution including in the 14 movement and never met a communist, except for a few in the outlawed Dominican Communist Party. A lot of left wing socialists but not communists.

Of course to LBJ they were one in the same. Basically the revolution was one of the socialists battling the conservatives. It was "land reform" vs capitalism. It was also a battle to supposedly reinstate Bosch as the Constitutional President, but I'm not sure how many people really believed that Caamano or whoever won would really give up power...after all, almost everyone involved had at one time or another feasted at the foot of El Jefe, the real one, not me. They had had tastes of power and most would gladly have taken power for themselves.

I would say that the only real accomplishment of the US was to force a somewhat democratic election.

One of the fondest memories I have was flying in to SD wearing my Georgia Military Academy uniform, checking into the Embajador and being asked what army I was with...the temptation to say Guatemalan was almost too great to resist.

Porfirio, just a few comments on yours

Ambassador Martin truely admired Dr. Bosch as a liberal politician but did see his flaws. Remember, Martin was an appointee of a "Liberal" govenrment.

Bosch was the far left...socialist but not communist...probably wouldn't have taken much to convert him as Che did with Fidel.

The military was poorly trained. The US had started to provide training but had not reached a point where the troops could be considered competent. The most competent wee probably the Air Force as they had recieved more attention from Ramfis and thereby from Trujillo himself. They had not only their aircraft but their own tanks and "special forces". They were the elite force of the DR.

The real purpose of the miltary was a way for Trujillo to award his followers. Even the head of the assasins, Juan Tomas Diaz had been a general, rewarded by Trujillo for his loyalty. Don't know if it is still the same but would not doubt it.

I have tried to contact Amb Martin's son Danny to get his thoughts on this but have not yet recieved an answer. He and I were schoolmates and I spent a lot of time at the residency during this time period.

By the way, it should be pointed out that Tap Bennett, not Martin was the ambassador when the revolution started. Martin had left after Bosch was overthrown. He was then brought back to negotiate a ceasefire and settlement to the revolt.
 

mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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I can verify the part about the fear of communism. We were in the process of registering students for the English as a Second Language classes at a local community college. In walks a kid who apparently doesn't belong with us. He seemed high, and very talkative. He introduced himself, and when he found out what we were doing, he still didn't seem to feel "out of place", and told us his dad was in the Air force (I think) and spent some time trying to get the communists out of this place called the Dominican Republic. Did we know about this place? Suffice it to say, we know about the DR. Now I know why he mentioned communists.
mk
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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I met an ex-American soldier a few years back

in Juan Dolio who was trying to convince the locals he had helped "save" them from Castro back in '63. Did the US really suspect a takeover of the island by Castro???
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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LBJ + Communism + Castro= Major Paranoia

In a word MommC, yes

Remember, e were already fighting the Domino theory in Vietnam...
 
N

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Now I feel like I am starting to make useless posts in hopes of being the "winner," but: El Jefe, you seem to know quite a bit of the DR Military, would you be able to break it down into compliment, capability, composition and mission?

Janice
 

MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Food for thought!!

El Jefe said:
LBJ + Communism + Castro= Major Paranoia

In a word MommC, yes

Remember, e were already fighting the Domino theory in Vietnam...

A war that shouldn't have been in many peoples opinions.
Will Iraq be another Vietnam?
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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Janice,

Mine are but ramblings of the past...I am not that familiar with todays military. I as discussing from the perspective of the 60s, when I lived in SD and went thru the assasination period on thru the revolution.
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Re: Food for thought!!

MommC said:


Will Iraq be another Vietnam?

Thread! There's a thread here! This is a Dominican forum. Bad enough there's another thread dedicated to the US, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, as well as Pakistan and other places where the locals think that sheep make good consorts! Can we at least keep this thread remotely about the DR?
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Jefe Was There

Jefe, your input is valuable. But you add complications. For example, the idea tha Bosch was left wing and non-radical but could have been brought over to the communist side for the right price. Also that Camaano might not have relinquished power.

With so many variables, maybe I should ask this question. What would the US have lost if it had waited to see the outcome of the Constitutionalist victory? If communists had taken over, couldn't the US have invaded then? Or did the US think it important that Wessin & Wessin's forces be saved from anhilation (which was imminent at the time of the invasion)?

Also, if the thinking of the average Constituionalist Dominican military officer of the time was similar to the thinking of the average constituionalist Venezuelan military officer of today, then would they not have demanded the return to the Palace of Bosch and not supported any attempts by Camaano to retain power?
 

El Jefe

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Jan 1, 2002
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Porfirio

What is said for public consumption is oft forgot when it is advantageous to the the person who said it. trujillo had "democratic" elections...even allowed token opposition but never relinquished power. I don't mean that osch could be bought but rather if forced to could have become another Castro to maintain power. Remember, Castro is NOT a communist, he is a dictator. The people ae not free and the state does not treat everyone equally as in a true communist society (of which none have ever existed). Fidel like trujillo, Duvalier and Batista is a Banana Republic dictator...he just went to the Soviets for support instead of the US.

Truman was once asked what he would have done if he had been President when Castro took over. Paraphrasing, he said," I would have called him up and said, Fidel, youve had yourself a nice little revoluyion down there. Now we both know you have two places to go for help and niether one of us wants you to go tothe other place so comeup and we'll have a little chat and see what you need. I would have only made two demands, that he shave and that he take a bath." If that had happened chances are we would have helped Cuba instead of them going to the Soviets. People in the US supported his revolution financialy but the government turned there backs on him. The same could have happened if Bosch had been returned to power. My personal belief is that there was never an intention to bring him back.

It was not so much Wessin being saved as the American companies and wealthy conservative Dominicans maintaining their wealth and power. LBJ seriously believed that if the rebels had won the companies would have been nationalized as in uba and that Land Reform would result in the loss of wealth and power to the upper class Dominicans.

The average Dominican officer was an illiterate person who became an officer as a reward for his loyaty to someone. Many of the rebel officers were not even military people. They asumed military ranks. Kind of like during the Civil War in the US when locals would form militias and assume a rank of Colonel or eral as leader of that group.

I believe that if the US had not intervened, Wessin would have eventually overwhelmed the rebels and would have lead a Consejo de Estado until elections could be held. I think A fellow named Balaguer would have become President and then A PRDista would and then Balaguer and it would have made no difference except it would have taken longer and more lives would have been lost.

Just my opinion but there it is.
 

Tony C

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Jan 1, 2002
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www.sfmreport.com
I really do hate revisionists history!
A few of facts.

1. More than once US citizens were rounded up and threatened with execution in the days leading up to US intervention.

2. Many boats were intercepted trying to make their way up the Rios Ozama and Haina with weapons as their cargo. The main weapon carried was the FN-FAL. The serial numbers matched those that the Fabrique National factory had sold to Cuba(before Castro)

3. It wasn't a US intervention. Other nations from the OAS participated as well.

Tony C.