Stolen or no identity.....

DR_DEFENDER

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Jan 8, 2002
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One must wonder about the identity of an American. Now, I know a lot of you are wondering what the hell is it that I'm talking about. Think about it for a second. When someone from Europe says I'm an European you would usually ask something like, where from and they in return would say something like, Germany or France. The same should be for the West continent! After all, do we not have a North America and a South America? Geographically, who is to say that a Canadian can't say that he is an American? When you think about it it's correct to say so. A Mexican should be able to say I'm an American and you in return would ask, where from and then he would answer, from Mexico. Would it be wrong? I don't think so! So, when you really think about it U.S citizens don't really have an identity and at the same time stoled the name of America for the states cannot claim to be the only Americans on this side of the atmosphere. Do you guys know what I'm getting at? It's the equivalent of a European country name the United States of Europe and then making it seem as if they are the only Europeans in all of Europe. Take Africa for example. There are many countries there but no country claiming to be the only Africans, know what I mean? So, if we were to ask what else can we call a U.S citizen other than an American? I know in spanish they are also called Estadounidenses or somthing like that. Well, that's all folks and before some of you start to pull out your guns...I just wrote this for good discussion and nothing more. I'm not trying to dis-credit anything or anyone.

DR_DEFENDER

PS. By the way, isn't the DR part the Americas as well? If that's so, would it not be safe for Dominicans to say that they are Americans as well? Think about it.
 

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
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I think you will find that most of us when asked where we are from will say the US.

Dominicans, on the other hand, will speak of us as Americanos.

I agree that residents of the US and Canada are North Americans, that those living on the South America continent are South Americans, and that those in between are Central Americans.

But I have never heard a Dominican speak of anyone other than a person from the US as an American.

The residents of the DR are not Americans, as much as many might like to be. The DR is usually grouped with the Caribbean nations.

If residents of one of the countries of the Americas wants to call himself an American, it is ok with me. But I think the great majority prefer to identify themselves with the country in which they live rather than the continent they happen to be part of. I'll be interested in watching your efforts to change that.
 

DR_DEFENDER

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Jan 8, 2002
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Ken,

I am not trying to change what's already been implemented. I was merely making an observation of the matter and also wanted to see what people thought about it. I have no interest in wanting other nations to call themselves Americans but it's interesting how it is viewed by both the West Hemisphere and the outside world.
 

earosemena

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Aug 18, 2002
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Dr_Defender
Here is a good one for you. The second time I was in DR and the last time in an AI, I participated in one of those silly games they play on stage before their nightly shows. As you lost, and I did, the guy in animation would hand you the mike and you'd have to say your name and where you were from.
"I'm Francois from Paris, France," said one lady and the next "I'm Marie from Lisbon, Portugal," said the next and so forth and so on. When it came my turn I just said: "I'm Esther, from Miami." I said it on a whim and was chastising myself for my egocentrism when I heard another woman say: "Hi, I'm Grace and I'm from the Bronx." So there, we do have in the States the independent republics of Miami and the Bronx. What's in a name anyway?
As a side note, in spite of the Euro the European contries could never be under one flag. Europeans have futes against each other that date centuries.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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This is an old, old argument. Mostly, it has been propagated , most recently, by the leftists that want to denigrate the United States, make them less proud of being an American. the Boss and someone else sang "I'm proud to be an American", not a North American or anything else.
Europeans, a group that, in general, are jealous as hell of what the United States has accomplished, revell in calling all people from the North and South American continents "Americans".
Historically, they are correct
The biggest reason that we are Americans, not North Americans or anything else, is that the Founding Fathers were proud to call the country they had just founded the United States of America. Ostentatious? Perhaps, but they were the ones that did it. You will never hear a Mexican say he is an American, nor a Canadian....Nor will you hear a Brazilian call himself other than a Brazilian, and his country is the United States of Brazil, and so was Venezuela until Chavez came along, and so is Mexico....
Nobody stole anything. A nation state is composed of three, perhaps four things: Land, a people that inhabit the land and identify with it; and a government that is recognized by the people and controls the land. the fourth item might be an organized judicial system, but essentially the first three are the basis of saying whether a country is a country or not.
This nation is the Dominican Republic, and its people are Dominicans. Only the very weakest or envious would ever think to call themselves 'Americans' rather than Dominicans...there is no basis for it.

HB
 

mkohn

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
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Hey HB.
I couldn't agree more.
IMHO, the "United States of America Americans" appear to have stolen the land itself from the "Native" Americans?
That said. And "we" have the nerve to decide who is granted permission to live and work here and who cannot.
It contributes to the "my way or the highway" mentality that has us hated by many countries.
mk ...in a political mood
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
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Actually, HB...

Hillbilly said:
Nor will you hear a Brazilian call himself other than a Brazilian, and his country is the United States of Brazil, and so was Venezuela until Chavez came along, and so is Mexico....


HB
Actually, HB, it's officially known as the Federal Republic of Brazil. Mexico is known as the United States of Mexico.
Wearing my Latin American expert cap,
Keith
:cool:
 

Tony C

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Jan 1, 2002
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There is no such thing as "Native Americans!" You must be referring to the decendents of Nomadic Migrants from Eastern Asia or as I like to call them......"Tacky Casino Owners!"
 

JOHNNY HONDA

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Sep 25, 2002
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Tony C said:
There is no such thing as "Native Americans!" You must be referring to the decendents of Nomadic Migrants from Eastern Asia or as I like to call them......"Tacky Casino Owners!"
Tacky si!Well deserved chance to make $$$$ si!at least they fight back by trying for self government instead of whining about how they were mistreated and trying to make others fell responsible for their life
 

davej

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Nov 3, 2002
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Jealous Euro's?????

To Hillbilly,
However informed you think your own opinion, get one thing straight.
Not all from Europe see themselves, or accept their governments wishes, to be classed as Europeans.
Economic ideal has forced the hands of the Italians, Spanish, Irish etc, for massive subsidies and little else. They, or their governments more precisely, have prostituted their country's id, in order to increase the standard of living or donations through aid.
I am English/British and utterley proud to say so. No doubt you know a little of my country's heritage and shared heritage with the USA.
I for one, am jealous of nothing, other than cheap US gas!!!!!
Alternatively, I respect any Brazillian, Mexican, Cuban whatever. We are, where we are from. A national identity is vital to all countries, and surprise surprise, not only the US has that!!!!
Just look at the Balkans, the ex Soviet staes etc. Don't pigeon hole people.
Travel and experience of each others culture s the true liberator
Only then, when fortunate to do so, do we few see the utter similarities with our own lives. The same worries,, the same stress etc.
One love, always, we are all human beings, no more or less.
 

Cira

New member
Sep 24, 2002
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DR Deffender,
I agreee with you very much. Ever since I have learned about geography, it has come to my attention that everyone in the American continent ia an american either we like it or not. I have allways deffended that I am an american too and therefore when anyone talks about a gringo as an americano, I would correct them ans ask them to use estadounidense. I would not let anyone tell me that I am not american, because I am. I might not be estadounidense, but I am an american from the caribbean (the caribbean is part of the american continent)
 

Jersey Devil

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Jul 5, 2002
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America!

Dr_Defender,

Good Post. This has been an ongoing discussion among
some of my acquaintances here and myself.
Among those born in the US, the question seems
to be, where are you from? What they really mean is,
Where is your family from? I now say I am an
American to all. It started because in my profession
I work with many foreign born persons, and to
them, I am an American. When someone asks after
my reply, I meant your heritage, it gets more complicated.
Without going into it too much, two parts of my family
were in the US before the colonies became a country.
At that point I ask what else do I need to be considered
an American. Tedious.
I do not claim that those of us born in the US can say
we are the only Americans. What I believe is that it all
depends on your point of view. Mi cu?ado, who lives in
Cibao, says that I am "norteamericano", although
the DR is actually defined in some quarters as part of
North America. I have no problem at all with anyone
who was born, or has lived, in the Americas calling
themselves an American. What it comes down to is,
What are you going to do to make this world a better
place? What I say to my consultants and clients is that
it does not matter where you are from but you decide
where you are going to end up.

God Bless America,

Moca
 

davej

New member
Nov 3, 2002
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Identity

Good posts,
Seems there is more reasoned thought going into this topic now, which can only do us all good.
How many of us "Europeans" "Brits" "Yanks" whatever, make such an effort to make outsiders welcome to our own countries or within our own homes on occasions as I have experienced and I am sure some of you other travellers will have experienced?
Travel when taken as an opportunity to meet and interact with the local population is a marvellous experience. It breaks down barriers and stereotypes on all sides. It makes us, in the so called developed countries, humble for the hospitality we are shown in the face of sometimes extreme adversity.
I have been fortunate to never have experienced a bad episode through the meeting of local peoples in many so called under developed countries. I HAVE had many bad experiences in Mainland Europe etc, the so called first world.
Our priorities are wrong and we have definately lost something in our struggle to become a "civilised" society.
Travel shows us in reality, the normal human being wants to learn about other cultures, wants to share, help, interact. Travel is in fact a freedom through which we can teach and learn.
It can break our sterotypical views and those of the people we visit.
Get out the hotels guy's!! Stop being Brit, Yank, French, whatever. Be yourself, be proud of where you come from and the heritage you have, but live and share your life and it is a marvellous experience.
Sounding like a new age prophet here, so guess I'd better close!!! Hope the sensible ones out there get my drift and know where I'm coming from on this.
 

MommC

On Vacation!
Mar 2, 2002
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Having just come from Europe let me say that over there if you come from anywhere in North America you've considered "American". If you specify i.e. "I'm from Canada" the reply is usually "yes but that is in America isn't it?"