Re-Nationalize Power Distribution

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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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The power distributors are obviously corrupt, exploitative, unable to manage business in the DR, or all of the above. Does anyone not think that the result of the privitization has been an unmitigated disaster. With this said, should we ask whether the DR should consider re-nationalizing power distribution?

The benefits? Blackouts staged for strategic negotiation purposes would end. Rates could not be any higher. Collections could not be any worse. Life-line power (up to a limited number of kilowat hours per house) could be provided to poor barrios.

Rather than returning distribution to the CDE, a new quasi-public, non-profit corporation could be established. It would act with the public interest in mind, but be able to procure without government restrictions. It could hire international consultants to develop plans to improve efficiency and collections, and international technicians to help operate the system on a subcontract basis. It could use police power.

Disadvantages? Spain and the US would freak, resulting in all kinds of threats of economic retaliation. Foreign companies would demand damages. Financial markets would not approve, potentially impacting foreign investment in the DR. Transition period would be hairy. Even a quasi-public corporation would be subject to political pressure.

Other ideas? Maybe only threaten re-nationalization to knock the chip off the shoulders of Edencrook Norte and Edencrook Sul. Take advantage of the pending AES bankruptcy to launch a pilot program in the AES areas only. Offer vague promises of reimbursement to Edencrook and AES. Seek WorldBank help. Cry to the Spanish/US media.

Yes, I realize that any of the above would take 1000 times more skill, finess, intelligence, savy and cojones than Dominican politicians posess, and 1,000,000 times more than el maldito carbo could ever drum up. But how would it play out if it were tried?
 
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mne01

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Sep 5, 2002
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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
Disadvantages? Spain and the US would freak, resulting in all kinds of threats of economic retaliation. Foreign companies would demand damages. Financial markets would not approve, potentially impacting foreign investment in the DR. Transition period would be hairy. Even a quasi-public corporation would be subject to political pressure.
Click to expand...

Yup, and this is exactly why it is not happening and probably won't happen either in spite of the current situation. It is indeed the reason the capitalization happened in the first place - rich people wanted to become richer, whether dominicans with a RD$2000 monthly salary would be sent RD$1000 electricity bills or not...

But I agree to the fullest with your suggestion.

mne
 
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rendul

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Feb 24, 2002
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rendul.tripod.com
Re-Nationalize Power

Ditto!!! I am so ticked with the "Powers That Be" and the government that propagates this behaviour. I suggest that there is something dirty behind it all and it's not all Union Fenosa!!!:angry:
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Campaign Platform

Imagine how popular any presidential candidate who promised re-nationalization, life-line power and cheaper rates would become! I'm not saying anyone could actually do it if elected. But he/she would receive overwhelming popular support and could be swept into office (provided the JCE legitimately counted votes and he/she lived long enough to see inauguration - both big "ifs").
 
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mne01

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Re: Re: Re-Nationalize Power Distribution

mne01 said:

But I agree to the fullest with your suggestion.
Click to expand...

Although I dont think that "seeking World Bank" help is a viable solution since the WB is one of the big players in this game, typically demanding captializtion of national business (opening up the door for the rich countries) in exchange for the loans they provide.

mne
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Re: Re: Re: Re-Nationalize Power Distribution

mne01 said:


Although I dont think that "seeking World Bank" help is a viable solution since the WB is one of the big players in this game, typically demanding captializtion of national business (opening up the door for the rich countries) in exchange for the loans they provide.

mne
Click to expand...

You're right, MNE. It dawned on me after I hit "Submit Thread". As I've posted before in other threads, I have nothing but scorn for the world bank. I don't think it has the best interests of poor countries in mind.
 
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lhtown

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Jan 8, 2002
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I can certainly understand some of the reasons for wanting to return the power control back to the government. I can also understan the strong desire to want to do something. A "modern" city of 3 million people that can't keep the lights on for more than 20 hours a day on a regular basis can hardly call itself a "modern" city. Also, there is the fact of the ridiculously high power bills. Adding insult to injury, not only must we pay the high bills, but then we must make huge investments in backup energy sources.

However, for me to be convinced that it would be better(assuming it could be done) to return the power control to the government, you would first have to prove to me that it was not the government who created the problem in the first place. If it was the government who created and continues to propogate the problem, perhaps they had best work on fixing themselves before they try to fix the power and then instead of taking over the power, fix their errors(nice was to say corruption) that seem to have led to the huge problem today.
 
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Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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The "Government" is not part of the Solution,.......

It is part of the "Problem"! Hipolito and his "Funcionarios"(Political Hacks) are getting plentyof "Kickback" from all cocerned.The more we pay the more they get."Hipolito" promised to clean up the power problem within one year during his campaign.To those of you who don't live full time in the DR,please stop coming up with so many "Great Ideas" about how to improve things here! Why do you think nobody cares what the government says or does?We have heard,and seen it all before! Nothing changes! How many times have we seen a Government,"Clean-up" the customs dept,Las Americas gets a "Cleaning" every year! Helmet law,seatbelt law,end of curruption? I don't think so! So "Shut-Up!Accept things the way they are.Use the sistem,don't be abused by the SYSTEM!CRIS
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Government IS the Problem

The consensus seems to be that Government is a bigger problem than the power distributors.

But the system worked better when it was under Government control - though, admittedly, under previous regimes. And now the distributors are stealing their share on top of the government share.

Yes, I understand that the failures of power distribution may be by design, and that the whole privitization was probably done to enrich certain people.

Cris, I've seen progress in the DR in the past. So help me I thought I saw some under the Fernandez regime. I have not given up all hope for progress in the DR. I've only given up hope for now.
 
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qisqeyana@aol.c

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Apr 19, 2002
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THE GOV,T SHOULD PLASE CONTROL ON THE COST OF UTILITIES

The cost of utilities can,t be 50% of a household income that is madness, inflation gone thru the roof there. besides senior citizen rates, think in pesos not in pesetas and dollars. Aparently the controlling company don,t know their market/costomers Here in the we have an income of 5,000 but our electric and water run around 200-260 every two months in the summer and becomes lower in the winter. We spend around 200 on gas for cooking and heating. The average price for a home is about 300,000 at this time. My area is much higher, we consider our home an investment for our retirement money.
Foreign companies should be forebiden from controling public utilities company, the Americans company should not be shock at this, in the U S no foreign company is forebiden from oweninf a conroling interest in utilities companies. Congress or the house of representatives should intefere in this matter. Now prest those in these public offices for a cap on cost. March with picket sign in front of all public offices, get marching pemits, when posible . The permit will proctect those taking pllace from arrest if they behave in a orderly manner.
 
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qisqeyana@aol.c

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Apr 19, 2002
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THE GOV,T SHOULD PLASE CONTROL ON THE COST OF UTILITIES

The cost of utilities can,t be 50% of a household income that is madness, inflation gone thru the roof there. besides senior citizen rates, think in pesos not in pesetas and dollars. Aparently the controlling company don,t know their market/costomers Here in the we have an income of 5,000 per month but our electric and water run around 200-260 every two months in the summer and becomes lower in the winter. We spend around 200 on gas for cooking and heating summer around 20 per month. The average price for a home is about 300,000 at this time. My area is much higher500, 000we consider our home an investment for our retirement money.
Foreign companies should be forebiden from controling public utilities company, the Americans company should not be shock at this, in the U S no foreign company is forebiden from oweninf a conroling interest in utilities companies. Congress or the house of representatives should intefere in this matter. Now prest those in these public offices for a cap on cost. March with picket sign in front of all public offices, get marching pemits, when posible . The permit will proctect those taking pllace from arrest if they behave in a orderly manner.
 
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qisqeyana@aol.c

New member
Apr 19, 2002
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THE GOV,T SHOULD PLASE CONTROL ON THE COST OF UTILITIES

The cost of utilities can,t be 50% of a household income that is madness, inflation gone thru the roof there. besides senior citizen rates, think in pesos not in pesetas and dollars. Aparently the controlling company don,t know their market/costomers Here in the we have an income of 5,000 per month but our electric and water run around 200-260 every two months in the summer and becomes lower in the winter. We spend around 200 on gas for cooking and heating summer around 20 per month. The average price for a home is about 300,000 at this time. My area is much higher500, 000we consider our home an investment for our retirement money.
Foreign companies should be forebiden from controling public utilities company, the Americans company should not be shock at this, in the U S no foreign company is alawed from ownening a conroling interest in utilities companies. Congress or the house of representatives should intefere in this matter. Now prest those in these public offices for a cap on cost. March with picket sign in front of all public offices, get marching pemits, when posible . The permit will proctect those taking pllace from arrest if they behave in a orderly manner. It your right as a consummer!
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Porfirio: It is "Calvo" not "carbo" . I actually had to think on that a while. You must be from the "capitar" ??
Anyway, In theory I like the crux of your position, but I also see what Criss sees: Not going to happen.

Unless, that is, the violence gets really out of hand. Then, I think, a group of powerful men, assisted by hired technicians, "could" do better.

Here in Santiago we have a very good water supply, an excelent savings and loan association, a great university, a fine ag school, the best airport, and cheapest built and fastest growing, all due to a non-profit, civic minded group of men.

If you saw the declarations from last week's papers, they still haven't found the 600+ millions of dollars that were deposited in off shore accounts??? In plain English, nobody knows or will admit where that freaking money is!! That is just for starters.
I think we have to empty the jails of all the petty criminals and start filling them with everyone connected with the sale of the CDE....Maybe, just maybe that would wake some people up.

Oh we have to dream, don't we??

HB :)
 
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mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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HillBilly, If I may ask, would you please expound on your statement "they still haven't found the 600+ millions of dollars "? I am curious about where you read this. That is extraordinary news. And it bcaiscally answers Carbo's (Porfio) question. They are all stealing. The power companies behave the way they do beacuse the current and previous governments struck deals that allow the power companies act with impunity.

They all need to go. The government needs to go. They foerign power companies need to go. As HB says, at some point the populace just will get fed up enough and do something unbecoming.

mondongo

Dont look now, but inflation and the exchange rate are accelerating.
 
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JROD

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Jan 3, 2002
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screw the Spaniers

Take all those freakin Spaniers and put them on a plane back to Spain. Is that simple.. Let us be DOMINICANS...

Carajo !!!

Jrod (primus inter pares)
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Carbo

Hillbilly and Mondongo,

I don't know what you're talking about. Ecribo catillano pesfectamete. Utede no sabe nah. Todo aqui dicen "carbo".

Yes, run away inflation is now becoming apparent. Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

On the bright side, Hippo is fat enough that if we decide to eat him, there will be enough for the whole country.
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Mondongo. When the power company was "privitized" the Spanish companies supposedly deposited 700 million dollars for the sale. the government announced that they were going to deposit this money in off shore accounts since this amount of dollars would have a major impact on the exchange rate. This transaction has never been reported to anyone: Who got the 2% commission? Which banks? Where is the interest going?? And on and on. Recently the head of the treasury has stated that they can't locate this money..Nobody knows, and now they are talking about 600 million. go figure....

HB
 
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mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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thanks for the info, HB...that is further confirmation of who our (DR's) real enemies are...those in political power....I would love to know more of the terms of the "Privatization" contract with the power company..my guess is that without that mising 700MILLION, we cannot buy out this contract...and are thus stuck
 
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suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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Privatization Works...

Privatization is the only thing that ever works. The government's role should never be to run companies...their role is to make the laws to benefit the largest segment of the population and to enforce them. Government involvement in industry has never worked in any place in the world. Even in developed countries like England, USA, France, etc...private indsutry will always do it more efficiently and cheaper. The reason the privatization has not been a success in the DR, is because it was not a total privatization. The government is still involved and the CDE is still alive. If they made it where it was completely privately run with no government intervention, other than enforce the laws, it would work. For an example look at the telephone and cable TV industries. I say get the government out of the equation, sell everything to the highest bidder, open it up to competition, put in jail those who steal electricity, and fine the electric providers when they overcharge consumers (enforce the laws to protect consumers as well as the companies)....Macana
 
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Porfio_Rubirosa

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Apr 26, 2002
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Spoken like a true Reaganite (Friedmaninte?). As easy to say as "just say no." Ah, were life only so simple. Yes, privatization is desireable, but only if done right. And some sectors should not be privatized at all. Electric privitazation/deregulation has proven to be very tricky around the world, with well known horror stories from California last winter and Britain this year.

What you have in the DR is totally bizarre - privitization AND deregulation WITHOUT competition.

Electricity distribution is always either governmental or by legal monopoly because it would be unwieldy to have different companies running power lines all over the place. There is only "competitive" power when the distributors operate regulated utilities for cost-based fees and multiple power producers sell directly to the consumers at competitive prices. The power lines are only the means of transport.

Since power distribution is supposed to be relatively profitless (the profit is supposed to be in selling power itself) and must always be essentially a public utility, this privatization never made any sense. Many quasi-governmental yet essentially proprietary operations such as this have been shown to operate best in the US in the form of quasi-public corporations, authorities or highly regulated public utilities. This is what I was recommending for the DR, though, granted, nobody ever claimed that the DR government was in a never ending quest for honesty, efficiency or to better the public interest.
 
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