Polygamy, Cheating, and the Dominican Man

leja

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?continued from last post?
I?m not saying that he can?t change this about himself (I?m a big believer in willpower) or that all Dominicans are ?cheaters? (I strongly believe there are some that don?t cheat?and even know a few); I?m simply suggesting that we N. Americans and Europeans may tend to understand and evaluate Dominican cheating according to our own cultural understandings and norms...and although we may like our ways better, they may not. Although I personally really, really don?t like the idea of cheating, I think that it is important for us to be aware and careful of who we?re judging and why and, ladies, also of who we choose to date (remember, as foreign as the idea may be to us, in your Dominican boyfriend?s mind, cheating may not be about a lack of love or respect).

One of the really tricky things when dealing with Dominican culture is how deceptively similar it can seem to our U.S. culture (or Canadian, European cultures)?and the real similarities we do observe may actually make us less open to recognizing some of the important differences that do exist. On the surface we can easily see that, like us, lots of Dominicans wear jeans, t-shirts, and otherwise ?Western-looking? clothing (even if with a unique, Dominican flair) ? there are no togas or turbans here folks, American music can be heard playing on the radio every now and then, numerous English words have made their way into Dominican slang, everybody seems to have a t?o, a primo, or some family member in Nuebo Yol, Boston, Suiza, or somewhere, ?tigueres? can be seen sporting the baggy jeans, chains, and oversized brand name shirts I?m used to seeing in ?lo Bron? (Bronx, NY), and the young people, much like me and my peers in the U.S., enjoy music, going out dancing (sometimes drinking), flirting, falling in love, etc. We do have a lot of similarities ? and not just surface ones ? our societies are both in the global minority of cultures that believe in romantic love and choosing one?s own mate(ssss:)), we are both consumerist cultures, we (US & DR) are both ?new world? countries born of colonization and slavery, and we both at least speak of notions of equality and the importance of education and productivity.

So, are we really all that different? Well, in my opinion: yes and no. In many ways, the DR is just different enough and just similar enough to our ?Western? cultures to seem both exotic and familiar. Yes, we are similar, but no, our main differences are not, in my opinion, palm trees, traditional foods, merengue, or even politics, race, race-relations, or language (which can often seem like the most striking differences, especially to tourists and also to girlfriends who spend a cumulative month or three in the DR with their dominicano boyfriends every year). When a culture appears, at least on the surface, to be generally like our own, we sometimes have a tendency to subconsciously assume where the specific similarities lie (usually where we most desire them to be) and forget just how profound some of the differences may be. Dominicans may do this when thinking about us just as much as we do it when thinking about them.

And I do believe that romances between us certainly can work ? they may be more challenging, complicated, and there may be an unusual amount of give-and-take and learning that needs to take place in order to truly understand the needs, feelings, and unspoken language of the other, but hey, that could be one amazing, intense, and life-changing experience for both parties involved. For those girls in or pondering a relationship with a DR guy, my advice is to just take things slow and be careful (I?ll post more detailed advice later ? and I?ve got lots!).

Yeah, lots of Dominican men cheat, but the ?problem? with this isn?t necessarily the cheating but that they cheat and we N. American and European women do not like or accept cheating (I hope you don?t mind my speaking for all of us on this one). So, the difficulty occurs when the two different cultural expectations and norms meet ? and that?s where it becomes important to take things slow (emotionally and ? I know I?m going to get some disagreements on this one ? in my opinion, sexually).

It is a good idea to understand what can and will hurt the other one (aka infidelity) before either of you puts yourself in the position to be able to get really emotionally hurt. And by ?understand,? I?m not talking about words??look, you?re with an American, things are different with us???if you cheat on me I?m out of here??verbal communication is important, yes, as may be laying down the law like that if you feel it?s necessary?but do you think Dominican girls have never said those things to him before? Just replace the Dominican girl?s name for ?American,? and he?s likely heard it. There are lots of Dominican girls who, like you, don?t particularly like the idea of sharing their boyfriend with other women and will certainly let their guys know. This is another idea I?ve been thinking about lately - do you guys think that maybe as feminism is slowly taking hold and developing in the DR, women?s expectations are changing?and maybe men just haven?t caught up to these changes yet? Anyway, it seems to me that some Dominican women absolutely don?t put up with cheating (and choose their men accordingly?and very, very carefully), some don?t like cheating but put up with it anyway, and others just don?t really mind the cheating (like anywhere I guess?just in different percentages at least for now). Also, from what I have observed and heard for dominicanos/as, Dominican guys tend to like their girlfriends to show a little bit of jealousy, and although I know that when you tell your boyfriend ?absolutely no cheating or I?m out of here? your words are not, in your mind, simply a demonstration of jealousy, he may be reading your words differently than you intend. Until he truly knows you, he is naturally likely to interpret your words from his Dominican frame of reference, not your American/European one.

So, he may see your words as ?cute? jealousy but not as a real threat to your relationship ? especially since if he?s at all intelligent, he?s likely very, very skilled at hiding his women from one another. Also, don?t assume that words (te amo) and actions (sex) mean exactly the same thing in your different cultural ?languages.? He needs to observe you interact with him and other people over a long period of time, hear your stories and points of view, see what hurts you, just truly feel out you and your subtleties in order to really understand where you stand on the cheating thing?and I feel that sex too early, although it does create a special bond, can contribute to a potentially good relationship ending badly because of misunderstandings that could have been avoided if given more time (if he sleeps around before you are ?together,? what?s the real problem? If he sleeps around after you are together though?now you?ve got a huge problem ? getting to truly know each other is the only way I see of avoiding such cultural miscommunication ? that is as long as the guy truly loves you and is willing to make the no cheating sacrifice to be with you).

There?s a whole lot of learning that needs to go on on both sides ? he needs to learn what you need and expect from him and you certainly need to learn what he needs and expects from you ? assumptions about men and women that may have worked for both of you when dating within your own cultures may no longer work. In the end, once you understand one another?s? needs, feelings, and expectations, you and he will both know if the relationship can work out or not?whether or not you are both able and willing to make the necessary cultural and personal compromises and if they can be sustained long term.

Okay, enough cultural critiquing :knockedou?sorry about the rambling. Dominican culture is, in my opinion, complex, yes :confused:, but absolutely incredibly beautiful ? much like with my own culture, there are things that both horrify me and take my breath away?the DR holds a very, very special place in my heart. The unique humor, love, generosity, absurdity, violence, corruption, and tranquilidad all blend to make it that wonderful, sometimes frustrating, and just simply beautiful place it is.

Please let me know what you guys think about all the culture and cheating stuff ? I especially hope to hear from ex-pats and Dominicanos/as. Thanks guys?I look forward to your thoughts and challenges!

~Leja
 
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Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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leja

This topic(infedelity) has been beaten to death recently so I dont think this thread will go anywhere..Also..your posts are kinda long(no offense)....By the way..where was that little secluded village you were talking about?
Larry
 

Hillbilly

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russian.gif


And your point was??

HB
bigsmirk4.gif
 

JOCHYPLAYA

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Leja, you seem to have a very good insight into our culture. I am a Dominican male, yet I can't figure the reason of our tendency to like females so much. I guess this behavior can be traced to many different causes. Some of this causes might be:

-Suppy & demand. (there's a surplus of females and a deficit of males in dr, so it is not fair for females to expect their men for themselves because there are not enough men for all the women. our women are very generous and have common sense, so they share men.)

- We feel proud of being caliente.( Where ever there are dominican men, we establish our authentic reputation for being good lovers of women. I like the reputation that we have to be honest. There are certain countries where the men have a reputation for being gay and not good with the females. That's a real shame and it's dirty, but females are beautifull and loveable, so we are proud to be called mujeriegos instead of being called pajaros like they call some men from other countries.

- We love women. ( I want all the girls out there to know that we love you. We think that you are amazing, so sweet, and so beautifull. We don't mean to hurt you. sometimes we have to lie , but we mean well because you'd rather us lie about having other girls than tell you the truth, so we don't want you to get mad . Please understand us. Nobody is perfect, and our greatest weakness happens to be that we love you so much that we can't resist your beauty. Yo le doy gracias a Dios siempre por que las mujeres son tan buenas y hermosas. May God bless you mujeres.
 

ricktoronto

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Jan 9, 2002
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Hillbilly said:
[B
And your point was??

HB[/B]

I sure missed it owing to the lack of what we call the basic paragraph.

Leja: Go back to the 2 posts and edit it into a few, no, many paragraphs for us will you?
 

AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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JOCHYPLAYA
Your post is so much different than it was last week when you said that every woman (that you have sex with) that isn't you're main wife/girlfriend is considered a low life slut.
 

leja

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Thanks for your responses guys. IloveDR, HB, and Rick, sorry about the length and convolution ? I?ve gone back and split my post into paragraphs?hope that?s helpful. I guess I got a little carried away?:) IloveDR, my main point is more of a question than a point:

Do you guys think that Dominican men?s infidelity could actually be a form of polygamy? And if so, could this historically and culturally based practice of polygamy be so difficult for us to identify and label as such because of the many similarities we see between Dominican and our ?Western? cultures?

JOCHPLAYA ? thanks for your thoughts?you bring up an interesting point :

JOCHYPLAYA said:
We don't mean to hurt you. sometimes we have to lie , but we mean well because you'd rather us lie about having other girls than tell you the truth, so we don't want you to get mad .

On a recent trip to the DR, one of my friends told me that if I wanted to move to the DR, I was going to have to learn the difference between ?mentiras? and some other word??defensas? maybe? Anyway, he was qualifying different types of lies and saying that some types weren?t bad. Of course, at the moment I was in the process of completely chewing him out for having lied to me?and, as I had recently discovered, for blatantly lying to and using an American chica?so he may have just been trying to pull himself out of the deep hole he had dug for himself. But what are your thoughts on lying? In Dominican relationships do you see lying as being an act of disrespect? Can a Dominican guy truly respect and love a woman he lies to? Or do relationships just become games once the lying begins? Thanks for your thoughts?

~Leja
 
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JOHNNY HONDA

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Sep 25, 2002
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Anna Coniglio said:
JOCHYPLAYA
Your post is so much different than it was last week when you said that every woman (that you have sex with) that isn't you're main wife/girlfriend is considered a low life slut.
JOCHY all i can sy is ouch she caught you
i lost original post after 1st paragraph,too long and to quote HB,and your point is?:confused:
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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"JOCHYPLAYA",What a crock of "MIERDA"!

Dominican Men,and all men, who use women only for sexual gratification,don't "Love",respect,or have any positive feeling at all toward women!"I love you so much,I can't resist your beauty,I must make love with you!,I am so weak,I can't help myself!"."Horseshit"!It takes a man who has no respect for a woman in particular,and women in general to use that type of arguement as a means to get what he wants,ie lots of sex with lots of women,with no resposibility for the consequences!A man who really respects women,finds one he really loves,and settles down with her to make a home and life together,and possibly to raise children together.Real love involves lots of self-sacrifice.You may want to make love to lots of women,but you resist,because you know what it would do to your relationship,even if your wife never found out!!!The "MACHO" culture ads to the problem. So even if "Jochyplaya" believes in his own creative line of baloney it doesn't make it true.All the problems in the Dominican Republic can be layed at the feet of,no one ,from birth until death, is made accountable for their actions.No one has to face the responsibility for their actions.Its jusy "Party On",and to hell with tomorrow,and the future be damned!So come on down and join the party,but don't believe what you hear,cause it is all a fantasy.CRIS
 

JOCHYPLAYA

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Mcinbrass:

I've never made a child support payment in my life thanks God, and I hope I never have to because when I have kids, I want them to grow up in a legitimate family with both parents.

Anna:

I didn't say that every woman that I have sex with, who is not my main girl/ wife is a low life slut. What I was trying to say is that it is the way that dominican girls analyze it when their dominican men cheat on them maybe to feel better about themselves. That is what the relatives tell the females when they are upset about a cheating situation, thus they would not feel bad.

Johnny;

My point is that this dominican behavior is not a matter of not bieng capable of loving women or being bad to them, it is just a matter of us loving them too much. We just love females.

Jochy.
 

Mcinbrass

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Jan 2, 2002
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I appreciate your honesty...

...however are you aware that many men in DR are fathering children with multiple women and not paying any support? This in part, caused by the mujeriego lifestyle. If indeed you intend to have children grow up in a house with both parents, what are you going to do when the urge to take another woman occurs? What if shes prettier than your wife? Will you leave her like so many of your brothers and leave her to fend for herself with the children, maybe even have to prostitute herself? Frankly I think you're full of shit and just saying anything to make your self look like a decent person. Your posts in too many instances contradict themseves. I wouldnt be a bit surprised if you already have children, How old do you say you are?
 

Criss Colon

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Nice to see someone,"Mcinbrass" is not fooled by the lies of a dominican

self proclaimed "Sanki"! See how slippery the responses are? Tailored responses to misguide the listener,say what they want to hear.Problem is these guys are so full of bullshit,that they can't remember what the said,or posted yesterday!.Bill Clinton must have some Dominican Blood! CRIS
 

JOCHYPLAYA

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Hola Criss Colon

I'm glad that you are contributing your funny wisdom to this confusing thread. Most of your posts just make me LOL, but you seem to have a lot experience and knowledge about my country, so I can learn somethings about the DR and ourselves that I dont even know.

Esto es un asunto muy complicado Cristobal. If I have had some beautifull girlfriends, but never felt like "sacrificing" my female appetite for any of them, does that mean that I am uncapable of love , or that I just haven't found a girl that has made me fall in love yet?

I think the latter, but it is very confusing because I feel that I have loved these girls, yet I have never felt that any of them was the last girl Iwanted to be with. It might be because I'm still young and want to explore, or because as a dominican I am uncapable of (by gringo standards) "truly loving"?

Moreover, You have written in other potsthat you like to have "lots of recreational sex with other girls besides your wife"
does that mean that you also don't have any respect for women, or you just were "contaminated" by the dominican "machismo" when you moved there?
 

Mcinbrass

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Dont get me wrong...

...I have nothing against a wandering eye, I am not holier than thou, but dont come out here and claim mujeriego as some glamourous lifestyle. The social ramifications of what he suggests is normal, accepted and encouraged are scarey. Women have no hope of redemption in this atmosphere. All Im saying is take resposibility for yourself and hopefully the rest will work out.
 

JOCHYPLAYA

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McBrass

I think we can all make get points across without saying " you are full of shit". I'd rather us keep posting without turning this thread into a personal attack battle field. Everyone is free to disagree with each other, and even more in a forum like this where so may of us come from different cultures and have different view points, but we can all at least keep a level of respect by making our arguments assertive and not using profane words. Cojelo suave Macabra. Gracias
 

leja

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Oct 16, 2002
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McinBrass...

I agree that the mujeriego lifestyle makes it incredibly difficult for women (and their children) to get ahead in life?especially when the man doesn?t help out economically. In a way, it?s a kind of social suicide. If men have children with lots of (and often young) girls and then fail to provide for any of them, then where does that leave society? The woman has to support and care for the kids, so she can?t go to school to make a better life for herself or for them. The kids end up growing up in a household where the mother is constantly struggling to put food on the table and clothes on their backs?and maybe she dates or marries other guys, which can turn out, of course, to be a good or bad thing for the kids.

Why do you think that some boys who grow up in this environment become mujeriegos themselves when they are adults?

And of course not all mujeriegos fail to economically support their families?I know lots of men who provide money and food?but does that make them good fathers?

What do you think the general concept of a ?good father? is in the Dominican Republic?

~Leja