Bachata wars - merged threads

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Have people been following the great bachata debate? Over the last few days El Nacional has been full of it. There was an editorial - no less - linking bachata to violence against women, and the general response has been in agreement. What do you think? Is bachata being unfairly singled out? Can it be seen as a cause or an effect of machista culture?

Isn't there some terrible merengue too? And other popular genres with misogynistic lyrics - not necessarily Dominican music?

Is this more about elitism and the fact that urban middle class Dominicans tend to look down on bachata?

Chiri
 
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AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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I can't speak for bachata. It all sounds happy to me but would this be the same the theory that listening to" ROCK"/ Heavy Metal" would make you do things like kill yourself and others and/or do drugs?

Didn't work in this case. LOL
Maybe song writers write about what is happening at the time not encourage it.
 

Musicqueen

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Jan 31, 2002
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Chiri...

I havent' read "El Nacional"...but I did have lunch with "El Gringo de la Bachata" last week.

He has a new c.d. out, "Cosas del Amor", and the single from that c.d. "A esos hombres" talks about how women love the men that hit them and make them unhappy...but don't love the ones that treat them nice...(Wasn't there a thread here on that same subject?)

Anyway, he told me that they had picked that song as the theme for a campaign on 'violence against women' in the DR...

Did you hear anything about that?

It's about time they start educating women all over the world that there is no reason WHATSOEVER to let a man mistreat you in ANY WAY!!!

I love bachata personally, (like you guys didn't know that already!) and I think the song is really good to get the message across...

Just my dos centavos...

Have a nice afternoon...

Syl
 

Jersey Devil

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Re: Bachata wars

Chirimoya said:
. What do you think? Is bachata being unfairly singled out? Can it be seen as a cause or an effect of machista culture?

Is this more about elitism and the fact that urban middle class Dominicans tend to look down on bachata?

Chiri

Chiri,

I think your last question hits close to home. The elites,

and some middle class members do look down on bachata

and may be the ones happy to "exploit" any scapegoat

potential Bachata provides. Spousal abuse is wrong. Period.

Bachata is just another form of expression and is not what

harms people. I know Dominicans living here in the US

that never dance Bachata, and act as if they would rather

be caught dead than listen to, or dance, Bachata. This

seems to me to be a deep seated preferrence that may

have been taught to them when they were children.

My wife says that I am "bajo clase" when I listen to

Antony Santos, for example. I think she has said that

growing up bachata had been identified with prostitutes

and bar goers. I remember one time I said I was going

to play a very popular song by Frank Reyes for her

in the car. When she heard the first few strains of

it she said "eso dame ganas a ir al ba?o" or words

to that effect. Aunque ella es del campo, she thinks

like an elite. No one is perfect.

Moca
 

Pib

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I don't know anything about Bachata (no more than any of you). I don't particularly like it, we call it "pleenkeetee pleen" music at home. :)

Having said that, I don't think that this theory that music influences people (Ozzy Osbourne anyone?) passes muster. It's another scare by not-so-smart people. The only damage that Bachata does is to the eardrums.
 

latinarubia

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what?!

I can't believe the negativity associated with bachata here! I thought everyone loved it?!Associated with low class?! What?! I never new any of this. I'm sure this doesn't refer to everyone but I thought there was nothing but love for it. Maybe it's just the songs I've heard cause for the most part I don't recall the content being negative.

:surprised :cry:
 

latinarubia

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sorry.....

Ughhh!!! I hit the post thread button instead of reply....sorry!! This was in response to the Bacahata getting a bad rap thread
 

Tony C

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Re: what?!

latinarubia said:
I can't believe the negativity associated with bachata here! I thought everyone loved it?!Associated with low class?! What?! I never new any of this. I'm sure this doesn't refer to everyone but I thought there was nothing but love for it. Maybe it's just the songs I've heard cause for the most part I don't recall the content being negative.

:surprised :cry:

Latinrubia,

Sorry to burst your bubble but not everybody loves bachata. Just like everybody doesn't like merengue or Jazz or Rap or any other music genre.
My eyes roll back in their sockets whenevr I hear anybody say that everybody loves bachata or Merengue. If everybody loves it how come a bachata never made the billboard pop charts? Most people on this planet would hit the Scan button if a bachata came on their car radio dial
As for bachata being considered"Low Class" it is true.
 

Timex

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May 9, 2002
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RIGHT!!!!!

From my post Sunday.

Well enough of my rambling BS, it 11am, I'm going to go get cleaned up, eat lunch, and get my wife's ass over too the Parquesito, for a afternoon of Presidente and Bachata!!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

We had a Great time!!!!!!
You should have seen all of us low class people having way too much fun!!! All those people moving to Bachata, Merenge, Salsa!!! :cool:

Started out with a group of 6, finished much larger, that evening.
Nothing but Hola's from everybody, No fights anywhere, and a Great Time had by all.:cool:

Since my Wife and I, were going to invite Jan out for an over-nighter, and take her there, I guess we will have to ask, if she will hang out with us low-lifes!:laugh: :laugh:

Sound like Blarney from Ireland, to me.( The Bachata wars)

Thanks
Tim H.
 
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Escott

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If you listen to bachata for three months you will be broke, leave your wife and children, have the worst string of bad luck for 7 years and then sound like Timex AND TYPE IN COLORS AND LARGE SIZE TYPE AND REPEAT YOURSELF OFTEN and MORE OFTEN LOL
 

kjdrga

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Bachata is all we hear in the campos, it is great people love to get out on the dance floor and sweat and grind to bachata. I personally love it, my husband loves it, his whole family loves it, they are from the campo. I wouldn't call them low-lifes.

Now Salsa is a whole nother story. NO ONE, even if it was to save their lives could dance salsa, except those who studied in the capital and picked it up there. Salsa isn't played too much in the campos people just don't know the steps to well. Same with reage, that's just a chance for some man and women to be humping in front of a cheering crowd. But they don't know how to dance it.

Now that we live in the Virginia, we long to find a place to dance just bachata or mergenue, but I think the closest would be the Bronxs. Now we are dealing with Cumbia, and samba which is great to watch other people dance. Some nightclubs do include Bachata and the Salvadorians love it, but they don't know how to dance it. They dance it with a cumbia twist.
 

Timex

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Your RIGHT Jazzcom!!!!!!

Except for the 1st part.

If you listen to bachata for three months you will be broke, leave your wife and children, have the worst string of bad luck for 7 years and then sound like Timex

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Been at for longer than that. And I have never been richer, or more loved by & dedicated to the peole in my life.:lick:

Thanks
Tim H.
 

latinarubia

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Well thanks for clarifying that Tony....

Obviously I know that not everyone loves the same genre of music. I was just trying to demonstrate a point. My assumption was that it was loved by many if not most Dominicans, I was wrong.
Billboard Pop charts is just plain mainstream garbage to me (most of it anyway). Some of the greastest music, in my opnion, has never gone mainstream, I listen to what appeals to me not necessarily to what the radio stations shove down my throat.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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I thought the timing of this debate was curious: just as bachata seemed to be establishing itself more in the mainstream - Cassandra awards, trendier image, orchestral adaptations (yuck!)at the Teatro Nacional - this appears to be unfair backlash.

Personally I am not a great fan. Some songs are better quality than others. It does have a certain kitsch sentimental appeal - like some US country music. Some places tend to play the same song again and again. I am not pleased when I go dancing only to find the venue offering wall-to-wall bachata, which often happens in the campo. I prefer (good) merengue, son and salsa.

Chiri
 

dale7

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Nothing wrong with Bachata

I didn't want to even post on this thread being a gringo, lol. Well I like Bachata music though I can't always understand the words and the meanings, that is what college spanish does to you. Even in the US, some people look down on country music as a lower class type of music, and I view bachata as folk/the real people music. Some of my personal favorites are Frank Reyes(Nada de Nada) which I am listening to right now, and Gringo Muere de Dolor by El Gringo de la Bachata, Dos Locos by Monchy and Alexandra, No Lo Perdona Dios by Aventura, and Ay Mi Madre by Luis Vargas to name a few. I never heard Bachata until about a year ago and when I have mentioned some of the songs I liked to certain people in the DR, some will just say I don't listen to Bachata, or I don't like it like it is a bad thing. Oh well, everyone has their own music taste and after listening to different latin/carribean style of music, I like bachata the best. I don't think any type of music can influence people to violence or other things because I don't know that many people that are that impressionable and can change to a womanizer/woman beater just by listening to music. My two cents.
dale7(Howard)
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Dominican Country Music

Dale7, that is a good comparison: bachata is to many Dominicans what Country Music is in the US, fans and critics alike. I would call it 'folk' music only in the most literal sense, as Folk in the English speaking world tends to have more social content than Country, which like Bachata is mostly sentimental.

Just going back to Music Queen's post where she mentions El Gringo de la Bachata recording a song for a campaign against violence against women, I didn't know about that one but I do hear a CD is being planned with contributions from major female Dominican artists to support the construction of shelters for women fleeing domestic violence.

Chiri
 

Lore

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From what I have understood (I may very well be wrong) but the Bachata's roots go back to the "cabana's". Like all music, it has it's roots somewhere, but the real question is what has it grown into. I quite like it. I personally have quite a distaste for North American music (whatever form, country, hip hop, rock, etc.) basically because I love to dance. North American music sucks when it comes to dancing. I like the old fashion way, where two people are actually touching each other and moving in unison when they dance. That has pretty much disappeared in North American culture (other than the basic waltz which seems to happen only at 12:00 new years eve!!!) So to each his own. I for one like Bachata.
 
B

Benny

Guest
I think music does influence how people behave. That being said, bachata's sound and lyrics are mostly playfull or romantic. I wouldn't characterise it as violent music at all. Some of the pop merengue out there is much worse, not to mention hip-hop, metal, ect.
 

gallorojo

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Sep 5, 2003
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This is a very interesting thread actually!

Bachata is looked down upon, and the situation is very similar to why Salsa is looked down upon in Colombia.....it goes further than viewing it as "low class" we have to look at who is considered "low class" and we find black people.......

The thing with Bachata is that its a part of our culture, and some of the old stuff is a national treasur, people like Luis Kalaff don't get the recognition they merit.

The same can be said for Afro-Dominican culture.....Haitian noirisme is something we could actually learn from! Culturally, we are at a very similar stage to where Haiti was during the early years before "Papa Doc" Duvalier came to power when it comes to attitudes towards music, race, and culture....

Personally, I love the really old Bachata music....but I'm not at all crazy about the new stuff....plus, there is a stigma attached to it..... its not right, but its there......