GOOD vs BAD spanish

MaineGirl

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Jun 23, 2002
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Hopefully this is not beating a dead horse but I want to know what everyone thinks. I talked to Ken about this at the reunion and AZB mentioned this too. Both seemed of the opinion (and feel free to correct my interpretation of what you said) that speaking "street" spanish, "low" spanish, or whatever you want to call it, is not good for a foreigner and shows the class of people you are around most of the time.

The subject came up because MR. Mainer talked to an employee at the complex where they are living and the man said "e'cuela" and not "escuela".

I learned spanish when I was a teenager. I hung out with other teenagers. My first words were all bad, street words. I had no idea what they meant--I just knew the connotation--as in "yuck", "darn", "cool" etc. Little did I know the words were vulgar and ugly.

In my mind, if you are a foreigner and can speak any Spanish, it is better than none. Of course, if you know the difference between "good" and "bad" spanish, than that is even better. In fact, street spanish at the right time can even show how much you are in the know of the culture, place, people etc.


What do you all think?
 

kjdrga

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Mar 25, 2002
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personally as a foreigner I think it is best to know both there is a certain comfort level in having the ability to fit into society through language.

When I lived in the campo and spoke to people at their level with their manerisms they felt more confortable knowing I understood them, and they treated me as an equal. However when I had to make trips to the capital and had conversations with higher educated people I used more proper Spanish and I would like to think it made them more comfortable with me.

You see people in my campo did not see me as a foreigner but more as a sister, friend, dominicana....

City folks, well I didn't hang around many of them much so I wouldn't know what they thought of me.
 

A.J.

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Jan 2, 2002
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I think that yes if you can speak any spanish as a foreigner that it is positive, however I think the longer you are speaking spanish you should learn the differences between formal spanish and familiar spanish.

I prefer not to call it "low" spanish or "high" class spanish. I think that just promotes the feeling of superiority. No matter what language you speak there are ways you will speak with your friends and family and ways you will speak in a formal/business setting. If a foreigner wants to gain respect they need to learn to manuever in both ways.

I have found many of the foriegners (especially the women) only learn familiar spanish with street slang, and that is great that the effort is being made, however if they need to take out a phone line or process their papers they will need to learn a little more than that to move in the line.

Since there are so many different dialects/accents of spanish you may speak the language fluently, but you may have some one who feels that because you are a foriegner and you picked up the Cibao accent and forgot your "s" somewhere you are not educated or that you are hanging only in the streets when in reality you could be PUCMM educated in Santiago.

I guess my overall opinion is yes foreigners should learn the formal spanish because then they learn more about where they are, BUT just because you learn it does not mean you will gain any more respect because of it you can just get a little further and it opens more doors for you in business and in friendships.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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No different than speaking English!

I have several different "Vocabularies" in English,that I call upon depending on the situation.And profanity can be used,or not used,also depending on the situation.Learn it all! Then you can "Taylor",and "Spice" your conversation as needed!CCCCCCCCCCCC
"Boypa'ya"!
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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MaineGirl said:
Hopefully this is not beating a dead horse but I want to know what everyone thinks. I talked to Ken about this at the reunion and AZB mentioned this too. Both seemed of the opinion (and feel free to correct my interpretation of what you said) that speaking "street" spanish, "low" spanish, or whatever you want to call it, is not good for a foreigner and shows the class of people you are around most of the time.

To clarify what I said, it was advice to Mr. Mainer, who is learning Spanish, that he should try to learn how to speak words correctly and not how they are spoken by a campesino. The matter came up when Mr. Mainer asked me how a particular word should be pronounced. When I told him, he responded that is what he thought, but it was not the way his gardner pronounced it. I stand by that advice. He will soon learn that many he meets will speak like his gardner, and, if his vocabulary increases sufficiently, he can speak as they do if the occasion seems to make it desirable. But if he is going to err, I think it best that he "errs" on the side of speaking correctly to, for example, his gardner than to speak like his gardner to Dominicans with more education.

This is not an argument with MaineGirl; far from it. I was thoroughly captivated by her at the party. She is as beautiful in real life as her picture suggests, and she is one of the most charming people I have ever met.
 

mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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My opinion,
Follow the rules for t? and Ud. If you are very close to someone, go for it. Otherwise, proper Spanish will be understood and you won't be seen as a rude foreigner.
mk
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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I find the 'uneducated' Spanish very hard to understand and even to speak. My mouth wants to pronounce the s's, even if I try not to.

Our attorney asked me the other day how my Spanish is coming along. I told him I'm learning, it's coming along and I also try and speak as much as I can with the gardener and the folks around us. He appeared quite concerned at this, and told me sternly that I should not speak the local Spanish. I should not learn from the gardener or anyone not educated. I should continue going to school and should speak correctly and pronounce correctly, otherwise I won't be respected. He said that I could rather make a mistake in grammar as everyone knows I'm a gringo and I will be forgiven, than to speak the 'uneducated' Spanish. This is not respectful to other educated Spanish people. This bears out what Ken and others are saying.

I figured something else today - I am actually much more shy to speak in front of other expats that speak well, than what I am with Spanish speaking people. The other expats will quickly point out a mistake often in a condescending manner. I think the Spanish folks have a good way - the ones that I know well, will help and correct as I go. I do hope they don't laugh when they walk away but I don't think so. I find it frustrating not to be able to talk fluently and I'm even more sorry for the person that has to listen to me.
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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Chris, an expat that laughs at your Spanish is not worth worrying about. You can be sure he/she wasn't born speaking good Spanish.

Do not stop speaking Spanish at every opportunity; that is the only way you will improve. I have noticed that many Dominicans do not speak English because they can't express themselves as well as they can in their native language, so are too embarrased. They will tell you they want to learn English, but, for most of us, we don't achieve any fluency without practice, practice, practice.

The Dominicans that concern me are the ones who are too polite to correct my errors. That doesn't help me to improve.
 

MaineGirl

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Jun 23, 2002
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On my latest trip I encountered personal embarassment for the first time in regards to my Spanish. I was meeting people (doctors, etc., and people at a funeral) with whom I wanted to have a decent, simple and respectful conversation. There is no excuse--I really need more practice talking "good" Spanish!

I have noticed that most people I practice with here in the States are immigrants in the service sector. Most of my acquaintances are amazed at my level--which never meanders beyond weather and greetings, for the most part. Now I am using my Spanish in a different way--and it really does matter.

I think it's obvious that in your own language, say if you were to apply for a loan at the bank, you would put on a nice outfit and bring along your manners. Most foreigners do not need that type of interaction in the DR; they are, in fact, just on vacation or whatnot.

One of my main problems is that it is easy for me to pick up on an accent. If the people I am with speak a certain way, than it is like a game for me to speak that way, too.

MG

ps. thanks for the kind words, Ken :)
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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I suppose one has to learn both. I can't imagine not knowing English slang. I would be missing half the fun in The Simpsons and wouldn't have been able to understand the movie 8 Mile.

I consciously try to speak at my best at all times. Partly because I can always hear my mom in the back of my head, but it is ridiculous trying to speak your best language when you are speaking with a "chinero" or chatting with your friends. It's the same in every language. There is a moment for every word.

"Me disculpan un momento mientras procedo a dirigirme al excusado para hacer mis necesidades fisiol?gicas" doesn't sound OK when you just mean "ahorita vengo, tengo que dai dei cueipo" [in my most exaggerated Cibao accent].

:)
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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Pib, I would hope that it would be possible to let people know you are going to go to the bathroom without giving an oration.
 

ccarabella

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Feb 5, 2002
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our pediatrician told us this cute story

She was learning to speak spanish and practiced any time she could.
One day a couple of spanish speaking workers were setting up to paint her home. One of the workers signals her over to the bathroom and points at a pair of panties she had hung to dry on the shower curtain rod. She quickly removed them and proceeded to apologize and express her embarrassment in spanish by saying "Escuseme estoy muy embarazada".
She'll never make that mistake again.
 

Jersey Devil

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Jul 5, 2002
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Learning Spanish

Learn as much as you can.
Practice often. Then tailor your
"presentation" of Spanish to
your audience. Just like in
your native tongue. I know I am
able to get it right most of the
time after 11-12 years of almost daily
practice.

Keep up the good work,

JD
 

Jane J.

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Jan 3, 2002
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I have a profound respect for both good and "bad" Spanish, so I think the key is knowing when and how to use each one properly (ain't nothing worse than Bad Spanish spoken badly).

I do not think, however, putting great effort into speaking Good Spanish to your workers or subordinates will earn you more respect. There is a lot to be said for speaking to someone on their own level, and treatment and character are far more significant than whether one misses out an ess or two.

The best way to learn any language is through immersion, IMO, but you have to balance this out by reading independently; the newspaper, a novel, the dictionary etc. - so important.

If not for my - ahem - inquisitive nature, I might still be going around saying "sem?sforo" and "gastear"...
 

MrMike

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Mar 2, 2003
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I think your chances of learning anything approximating proper spanish in the Dominican Republic are slim at best. What helps me though is reading books and watching the translations of movies and TV shows. This way you can bet a idea of more or less internationalized Spanish that most people agree is correct whether they actually talk that way or not.

If you've ever been to some backwater parts of the US like Mississippi or something then yo know it's one thing to love some of the people and admire the culture, but it's entirely different for other people to begin to mistake you for an ignorant redneck because you began to speak that way.

The same thing applies here, it's not hard to learn enough slang to get laughs at parties, and it will happen whether you want to to or not, but you do need to make an effort if you ever hope to speak proper spanish. The lower class people won't think less of you if you speak porperly, but higher class people will question your education if you speak spanish like you learned it from your gardner.

In Latin culture there is an almost counterproductive preocupation on the part of the educated classes to differentiate themselves from the less fortunate. While this does not necesarily apply to foreigners, you will definitely get more respect from Doctors, Lawyers and the like if you speak proper spanish - but not for the reason you might think. Half the time the doctors and lawyers will be talking amongst themselves like they just moved off the campo 2 weeks ago, and they will all want to take turns educating you on the local dialect, so if you show them you already know it, you circumvent the Dominican-Gringo bonding ritual. For this same reason whenever you meet new people never admit that you have ever eaten Mangu, Sancocho or Habichuela con dulce, because they will want to feed you these things so they can watch your face and its imortant to them that you be a virgin to these foods.
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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I think anyone thinking of moving here should take some Spanish courses before leaving their home country, and anyone living here seriously interested in learning Spanish should take some of the courses offered by such as Instituto Intercultural del Caribe http://www.edase.com/english/home.htm

Relying on conversations with your maid and/or cleaning lady, people you meet on the street, etc., is not likely to give you the vocabulary, knowlede of verb tenses, etc., that will enable you to make a positive impression when you want to.
 

rafael

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Jan 2, 2002
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I studied Spanish in HS, a LONG time ago. My first trip here I remembered very little. My buddy had been coming here very frequently and spoke "better" spanish than I did,but he learned from talking to his employees in the zona and his novias family etc.

He would try and be helpful and correct me when I pronounced Pollo like poyo, he yold me it is pojo! Then the more I traveled here the less I pronounced my S

I am just now starting to realize that not all dominicans speak bad spanish. I have done some demos at trade shows in my bad "gringo" spanish, and now this thread has got me thinking about how dumb I probably sounded! Oh well, the truth is in my English language demos, I speek more informally as well. Lots of colorful language and jokes.

I worked with a guy that had a spanish speaking roomate in college. After rooming with him he spoke "spanglish". He would basically add an o to every word! If he wanted to be hip he added an ito to the end.

So. . . . .one night his roomate invites him to his uncles nice mexican restaurant. As they were walking to their table, his friend asked what he thought of his uncles place. My buddy, trying to be hip says. . .in a somewhat loud voice. . . .coolito!

He had no idea why the entire place looked at him weird!
 

JOHNNY HONDA

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Sep 25, 2002
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One of the things resident gringos told me when I moved here was never to lower myself to speking Dominican Spanish thank god I ignored them I learned street spanish 1st got it down then learned proper Spanish I use the street Spanish more often cause I dont share a club membership with the elite
J.H.:cool:
 

GypsyGRL

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Apr 26, 2003
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What's the difference?

My friend and I are returning to the DR for an extended stay in March 2004 (1 month, year, life time???) and we are both concerned about speaking spanish. I was a afraid of speaking incorrectly while down there and did not want to offend anyone, so I was reluctant to even try. We are both doing home courses and we have found two ppl in our community (northern Manitoba/ Canada!!) who are fluent in Spanish. My question is this- One is from Mexico and the other is from Brazil, will the spanish we learn from them be different than the Spanish in the DR? I'm hoping the basics are the same, I understand certain slang is going to be different. What do you guys think?:confused: