Ex-PATS & Politics

Tony C

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
2,262
2
0
www.sfmreport.com
OK Gang. I want your opinion
Lately a few posters have been asking what you are doing to help end the political & economic situation in the DR.
Seeing as the majority of posters on DR1 are not Domincan I was wonderinmg what are your views on Ex-Pats meddling in local DR politics.

For me it is simple. I will discuss DR politics with Friends, Family and even strangers but I believe that Being a Non-Dominican, that it is not my place to become involved in DR Politics. By Involved I mean actively Campaign. Contribute, rally, even post a sign or put a sticker on a car bumper.

Of course I would participate if I was financially invested in the DR and I want to buy influence!
My Father told me once: "You don't want to be President. You want to be Best-Friends of the President."
 

BushBaby

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
3,829
329
0
79
www.casabush.org
Hi Tony - Here's my four cents worth.

Those that live outside the country should discuss with friends who DO have a vote down here & try to establish a "Thoughtful Process" in that persons decision making on which person/party to support. You may not be able to influence from KNOWLEDGE of what actually goes on down here (we that LIVE here have problems in that area, so those that DON'T live here have got even bigger problems trying to understand local poilitics) but if you get 3 or 4 people to think about their future & how the right government will help them succeed in avchieving their goals, you will have achieved a tremendous amount!! Talking to Dominicans about the political HISTORY of the country might influence a few people to vote a slightly different way & produce a much more effective political future.

For those of us who live down here, I agree with you that taking part in demonstrations will cause resentment. However, I do think that some form of helpful assisstance in generating political awareness is the responsibility of us all. How can we claim to love this country if we just sit back & let only Dominicans have a say in our combined future? I have a stake in this country (my investments & my future in retirement) so I feel I ought to have a point of view which I should discuss with my neighbours, friends & even tradespeople I talk to. Banner waving & yelling "Hippo is a dangerous fool" will only get me shot (which doesn't do too much good for my retirement plans) but suggesting to 5 people a week that things would be better if a more thoughtful & considerate President was in power running the country rather than borrowing money from abroad to pay his friends to vote for him next year, might stir a few thoughts & get them thinking that they ought to be a bit more firm with voicing THEIR requirements!!

I look forward to reading other peoples thoughts/suggestions. - Grahame.
 

Escott

Gold
Jan 14, 2002
7,716
6
0
www.escottinsosua.blogspot.com
While I do have a few dollars invested in the DR I do NOT feel it is my place as an extrajanero to tell them what to do. I do of course express my feelings and tell people I know and in forums I am known in that I think they are dumber than a box of rocks to keep electing the same crooks that enrich themselves to the detriment of the Dominican people. My thoughts carry less weight than the propinas offered by the polititians in every case so what is the point?
 

Jersey Devil

Bronze
Jul 5, 2002
686
0
16
Politics

As an outsider I try to chat about the situation with
Dominicans living in the US, as well as in the DR. I try
not to get into personalities but discuss the economics
of what has been done by the current president and why
that is now causing some of the current problems.

I am not involved but, as most of us are, am an interested
observer.

JD
 

monaco09

New member
Jun 4, 2003
106
0
0
What a great idea for a thread! This should give pause to many of us.

Other than small acts many of us do in our own little localities, I try to help (and encourage others to do so) in two ways. Give money, materials, and time when possible to facilitate education in places I find needing and give to Amnesty International who in my view does solid work.
 

Tony C

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
2,262
2
0
www.sfmreport.com
monaco09 said:
What a great idea for a thread! This should give pause to many of us.

Other than small acts many of us do in our own little localities, I try to help (and encourage others to do so) in two ways. Give money, materials, and time when possible to facilitate education in places I find needing and give to Amnesty International who in my view does solid work.

Thats great Monaco but what does that have to do with the thread?
Are you Dominican?
Do you live in The DR?
If not Dominican are you active in Dominican politics?
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
:confused: :alien: :cool:

Personally, I think it incumbent upon we Ex-PATS to apply ourselves to a better life FOR ourselves. In order to do that, we need to covertly and subtly foster the application of logical thinking in the minds of our Dominican friends and acquaintences who CAN make the differences in government and the economy.
By subtle hints, discussions (without serious derrogation) of the economic/social climate and inferrences as to their solutions, one can effect simple changes in thought processes of the target population.
Care in whom we speak to would be appropriate in the applications. We must, however, always emphasize our distance from the problem being discussed, stating that since we are NOT citizens, we really can't do other than offer advise to be accepted/refused by the objective recepient.
That said, I'll retire and await other posts to comment on/support/refute.
Texas Bill
 

Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
7,951
28
0
www.caribbetech.com
Opposite Viewpoint..

Let me voice the opposite viewpoint. I lived in the USA for 12 years and my husband (a US citizen) lived in South Africa for many years.

When I lived in the USA, and I did not want to become a citizen, my political voice was not welcome. In fact, many times when I wanted to discuss something political, I could not do so, as people would clearly take offense. Let me ask you what you would do if expats in the US made their political views known to all and sundry in a high profile manner. I know you Americans very well - I am married to one! You'll complain about this and you'll complain loudly. Something like Shut Up and Go Home comes to mind!

When my husband lived in South Africa, he could not express a political viewpoint too loudly either. Over there, they simply would have kicked him out of the country ... even though I had a high political profile. He had to remain very quiet.

So, it is my experience that if you are not a voter in a country, your sphere of influence is simply your circle of friends, be they dominican or expat. Any more than this is usually resented by folks who are allowed to vote in their country - after all is said and done, an expat can pick up and leave, and a Dominican can not usually. I think that we are visitors, welcome visitors, but visitors nevertheless. As such, a supportive role and an educational role where appropriate, is the style that I think will work best.

I appreciate the opportunity to talk and debate and fight about Dominican politics on this board though, as I remain at heart a political person...
 

monaco09

New member
Jun 4, 2003
106
0
0
Tony C said:
Thats great Monaco but what does that have to do with the thread?
Are you Dominican?
Do you live in The DR?
If not Dominican are you active in Dominican politics?

Well aren't we in a rough mood? Umm, AI covers the world. And yes my gifts of money and supplies directly to schools in the DR should count as doing something there as well don't you think?

"Lately a few posters have been asking what you are doing to help end the political & economic situation in the DR."

It seems to address your question quite well doesn't it???
 

Larry

Gold
Mar 22, 2002
3,513
2
0
this is a tough question

For the most part I feel that if you move to the DR later in life for retirement purposes(like I plan to) I dont see how you can expect your voice to have anywhere near the weight of a native Dominican. Even if he is a bum or a drug dealer, it is his country and you just came along with your dollars and squatted on it.I consider people like HB who have been there for decades to be exceptions to this.

On the other hand, if I was living there and paying an electric bill, buying gas, groceries, etc and pumping my money into the economy, I would expect to have SOME say in matters and that my voice would be respected.

Like Chris said above, when you are not native to the country you are in you cannot expect to be treated as an equal in matters such as this.

Larry
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
2,493
0
0
I don't know if it matters when you come here. I arrived at 39 years of age to stay. I have spent manner years fighting political, and civil rights battles in the U.S. and Chris even I as an American paid for that there with gunshots into the headrest of cars I was driving and crosses burned in my lawn. While I do not wish to save the DR from its own voters who's only real sin is that they lack the education to tell what works from the B.S. (and education aparently is not the answer either because there's a few folks posting here who are educated and still can not or will not seperate fact from fiction - M.) But I consider it to be teaching. Simple things about basic economics and how responsible government in a representative democracy requires responsible voters who hold the reins tightly on those that they elect. It's amazing what a few conversations a week, here and there, add up to in a lifetime. And if everyone here in the DR helped it could indeed bring about the change needed, just by education. Amnesty International not withstanding.
 
Last edited:

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
An ignorant,uneducated,populace is the key to a succession of...

..different political parties gaining power,only to steal from that populace!
Since education is the ONLY way out of this "vicious circle",and the political party in power has a vestid interest in the "Status Quo",there will NEVER be any change!

Cris Colon
 

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
13,884
495
83
I have an interest in the political situation, but do not believe it appropriate for me to be an activist. I talk with friends and acquaintances about the problems being experienced and indicate that I believe the government is largely to blame. But I wouldn't go public by attending demonstrations or any other political activity. I personally think that is inappropriate behavior for a resident.
 

Tony C

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
2,262
2
0
www.sfmreport.com
monaco09 said:
Well aren't we in a rough mood? Umm, AI covers the world. And yes my gifts of money and supplies directly to schools in the DR should count as doing something there as well don't you think?

"Lately a few posters have been asking what you are doing to help end the political & economic situation in the DR."

It seems to address your question quite well doesn't it???

monaco,

The question is not "what" you do but "if" you do or "Should" you do!
Before answering you have to say if you are Dominican or not and if you live now or ever have in the DR.
Example: No I am not Dominican. I have lived in the DR and still visit frequently.

If you are Dominican what do you think of foreigners commenting or getting involved in Dominican Politics?

Many of the Posters on DR1 have helped the DR in their own ways. This is not a thread for people to spout about how great they are because they give to this cause or that.
 

mkohn

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
1,151
4
0
I agree with Tony C. that we should not be getting involved in the DR's politics.
mk
 

getonwithit

New member
Mar 17, 2003
130
0
0
i am resigned to the fact that, as criss said, in the dr there will never be any change......but, i would like to comment on something that chris (the south african) said.

i agree with everything chris said and can understand fully the resentment, or maybe any taking of offense that could be caused by a political voice outside of your own country of citizenship.

however, what if another element is thrown into the equation?
i don't know if chris has any children, but if she did would she feel she has any right to the say-so of that child's future.

what i mean is that i am english and married to a dominican, we have one child. i can't just pack up and go back to my country, mainly because at this moment in time, we don't want to.
my child is at least 50% dominican and will be allowed to vote in the future. until that time comes (when she can vote), why is it wrong for me, as a responsible parent, to express any political view that i know will have a direct bearing on her future.

the subject was brought up sometime ago in another thread, and someone sensibly suggested i take up dominican citizenship, but really i don't want to do that.

i do not make my dominican political views known to other dominicans that i do not know very, very well, but i do believe i should have the right to do so, not as a visitor, but as the parent of a dominican.

don't any of you agree?
 

jose?to

The thread finally snapped...
Jun 19, 2002
686
0
16
getonwithit,

You may be able to hold dual citizenship and participate in the process.

-Jose?to
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
I live,work,pay "LOTS" of taxes,own a home and two cars,

am married to a Dominican,send my children to Dominican schools(after all,they ARE Dominican!) and have the right to express my feelings/opinions about life,politics and government here in the DR MORE than the Dominican Citizens living abraod!!!!

Cris Colon
 

bochinche

Bronze
Jun 19, 2003
747
10
0
jose?to said:
getonwithit,

You may be able to hold dual citizenship and participate in the process.

-Jose?to

being english, he would be able to hold dual citizenship....no matter how hard you try you can't lose british citizenship.

assuming getonwithit doesn't want dominican citizenship, but he has residency, cedula, pays taxes - why are dominicans, who don't even live in the d.r., able to have a say in his and his family's future? - come to that any of our law abiding, tax paying, legal d.r. residents' future?

in the d.r.'s defense, most other countries, including the u.k. give the vote to nationals who don't even reside in their own country.
there is never a fair system anywhere.
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
EX-PATS & Politics

;) :cool::alien:

I have a question that has been bugging me for some time.

Am I in violation of DR1 protocol if I share the DR1 Daily News Report with the Dominicans here in Manzanillo????

I haven't done so at this writing, but would surely be happy to be allowed to do so. Only 4-5 locals have a newspaper subscription and those do not share other than the sports page with other locals. Bear in mind, this is a very, very poor community and the people simply cannot afford to buy newspapers at the expense of feeding their family.
In an effort to put my dos centavos worth in, I will be approaching the local Computer school owner and try to convince him to become part of DR1. Maybe, just maybe, some of his students will become interested enough to follow the threads we publish and pass our commentaries on to other parties.

Does that methodology meet with approval or nonapproval???
I'm serious, folks, so please give me your feedback.

Moderator, place this where you wish, or block it if you think best. You won't offend me by whatever action you take.

Texas Bill