High Electricity Bills!!!

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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I just received my electric bill! It was almost 2 times the USE and COST as the last one!!!
I know not what the CURRENT flow in volts are in other communities, but here it has stayed at a fairly constant 80-90 volts for the ppast month or so. If I remember Ohms Law correctly, where the voltage is low, then it taked up to 2 times the amps to deliver the same wattage as it would with normal(115 volts) voltage. Since consumption is based on Kilowatts, it stands to reason that the same usage (of lights, fridge, freezers, air conditioners, etc.) will result in twice the number of kilowatts used.
Am I correct??
If I am, then the electric companies have found a way to increase their income through out and out fraud by delivering less voltage and causing higher consumption to show up on the meters.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. Electricity in Physics was not a subject I was extremely interested in and I didn't learn it well.
Texas Bill
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Please Please Please

Any electrical engineers out there chime in. If this is true, it explains so much.

I have never understood why my electric bills vary by up to 50% even when the rates are not changing and consumption is fairly constant.
 

NotLurking

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Jul 21, 2003
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Texas Bill your are basically correct, however, there are other hidden chargers caused by these intentional brownouts.
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When a voltage forces a current through a resistance it does so in opposition to the resistance. Overcoming the resistance of the circuit uses electrical power. The rate that electrical energy is consumed is called electrical power and is known as the watt. It is important to note that ?watt? is the rate of doing work and not the amount of work done. Electrical power (watt) is equal to the applied voltage times the amount of current in the circuit or P = E x I where P = power in watts, E = applied voltage and I = current flowing through the circuit. In an AC circuit, this measures apparent power only, for real power measurements, ?the Power Factor? needs to be considered.

For an appliance to do the same amount of work or cumsume the same amout of watthours, with a lower voltage, more current is consumed, the meter will spin faster and you pay mo?money - But wait, this is not the worst of it - there is more!!

All electronic equipment is rated for both voltage and current capacity. Exceeding either of these ratings is not recommended and could be detrimental to the equipment. Lets consider the ill effects lower voltage has on a 1kw microwave oven rated for 120vac 8.4 amps. Lets now assume that the step up high voltage transformer inside this microwave is rated at 120vac 10amps. If main voltage drops to 100vac the microwave will exceeded its current rating perhaps only blowing a fuse but more serious damage can easily occur.

Suppose now that the voltage drops to 90vac, now, the transformer?s rating will also be exceeded and great amounts of heat will eventually develop in the transformer due the increase in current flow stressing the magnetic wire. Eventually, the heat produced will breakdown the insulation on the magnetic wire causing a short and a potential fire hazard. Fortunately, in the case of microwave ovens the magnetron tube (food heating element) is not ?current? hungry and does not strain the transformer to the point of self-destruction. ? The magnetron likes high voltages.

Some appliances are not as fortunate and easily enter into high current consumption. For example induction motors (como el de la cisterna), air conditioners, fridge and even some TVs. The more recent of electronic gear use switching power supplies and the ill effect of voltage variations are minimize but they are not totally immune to this problem.

The cost associated with lower distribution voltages is twofold ? higher utility bills and slow but certain destruction of your electronic gear and appliances. Does anyone know if the Power Company can be sued for sodomy? I sure feel raped right about now?LOL
 

johnsr

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Apr 13, 2002
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The cost associated with lower distribution voltages is twofold ? higher utility bills and slow but certain destruction of your electronic gear and appliances.

Often the destruction of your appliances is not so slow, especially induction motors. Also surges or voltage "spikes" associated with black outs are instant death to non-regulated electronic circuits. These usually operate at 9 volts dc and a sudden drop or spike will destroy either the power supply or the circuits themselves.
It would help your appliances (and your wallet) if during a black out you disconnect (unplug) your major appliances ie. microwave, A/C, fridge, freezer, pumps, or any other motors or appliances that would resume operation when power is restored.
John
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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OK, so now what can we do about the fraud that is being committed on us. Does anyone think the Holy Seer Hipolito will do anything about it?
I'm not articulate enough to present the case, but will certainly add my full support to any endeavor to correct, sue, beatup, whatever.
Suggestions anyone.
Can we contact Fabio(?) for a legal ruling on this, or should we just give it to all the papers and let them carry the ball?
In the present climate, I'm sure they'd have a field day.
Texas Bill
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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Archives

I had a look in the 1999 archives to try and get some background on the electricity problem. Also spoke to my neighbor who has been here a long time. Apparently, the supply is better. Blackouts are shorter and not so frequent.

The price is another story. The 'new meters' also are another story. I don't believe there is anything we can do, excepting get of the grid and supply our own power -- the old 'vote with your feet' principle. I think the solution is that the government has to get out of electricity provision and regulating the industry and privatise the whole bang-shoot. In our area, nobody but us and a few other 'gringo's pay for electricity.

Texas Bill, it is worth while looking through the archives to see how this whole thing developed.
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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Chris you beat me too it. Texas Bill I plan on putting in a 10-15KW or so diesel generator so I can say the heck with 'em and as Chris says, 'vote with my feet'. I'd like to do solar eventually but the generator is a lower initial investment for me. And the operation of the generator will still cost me less than EdeNorte charges.

I am taking this step not just because of the cost, but because I am very concerned about the energy sector here. I don't think it is going to survice much longer in it's present state and as usual this government isn't taking any of the steps necessary to correct the problems, like, oh I dunno, paying their own bills!

BTW: All that's been said above about low voltages and the meters is essentially correct. And we have had many times here where the voltage from EdeNorte is low. I know because I've set our equipment up though to shut off grid power and switch to batteries or our little generator if that happens.
 

XanaduRanch

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Sep 15, 2002
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I don't know what the operating cost would be. I know in the states when I though about a generator I alwasy assumed I'd put in a natural gas one. But there, where I lived, every home had a gas line right into the house unlike here. I'd rather call to have the gas station down the road drive up here with their tanker truck to fill up my planta than have to be hauling around propane tanks though.
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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P.S.

Checked the site. I saw these at PriceMart in Santiago a few months ago. So I know they have gas powered generators here. Anybody know if they're quieter than the diesel or gasoline ones?
 

kbf

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Apr 24, 2002
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They are as noisy or not, as the other ones, just having better combustion, running cleaner, engines stays cleaner. If the volume for propane is cheaper than gasoline or diesel, than you would have less running costs. Storing of gas can be done in big tanks which can be filled once a year or whenever by trucks.
But on the long run diesel is easier to store than anything else.

Karl
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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Hola Karl,

If you are the Karl from Luperon, welcome to the site - nice to see you here - If you're not Karl from Luperon, welcome to the site anyway...

Christa in Cabarete....
 

kbf

New member
Apr 24, 2002
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I am running my truck since 5 years on propane and like with everything else it will be as dangerous as the quality of the installation.

Karl
 

kbf

New member
Apr 24, 2002
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I am not so sure about diesel, but it is cheaper than gasoline. If my truck uses one gallon (either gasoline or propane) than he will run for the same amount of time. There is a small power loss with propane but should not be an issue with an generator.

a gallon of gasoline is about 60 peso
a gallon of propane is 25 pesos.
 

lurker

See Ya!
Apr 24, 2003
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diesel for long running, higher loads ...

15 kw should cost around $.65 usd an hour operating at 75% capacity with fuel at .45 usd a litre allowing 0 for capital costs, parts, maintenance. stick with the major manufacturers like lister, cat, duetz, - stay away from onan, generac and the likes.
speed 1800 rpm or less. price is a good indicator of quality. set it up for long running - no remotes, no extras, no alternator, all steel lines, etc. if you take care of it it will last nearly forever. there are many dealers in florida serving the caribbean market.

i've never seen a propane generator that wasnt much more than a toy. ok for standby ... maybe. never for prime power.

honda and yamaha make 1kw and 2kw inverter series gasoline models that only cost around 15 cents an hour for fuel (.45 litre)
for light loads.
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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kbf said:
Hi Chris

Yes that's me.
Reading lot's and posting little.

Karl

Don't worry, the people on this site will try to beat you up only one time - ;) - If you fight back with them, they turn out to be nice people. (Just Joking a Little with You!)

Everybody can certainly benefit from your long experience and knowledge of the DR. Like I've never seen a truck running on propane. You mean this is a real truck with four wheels and a steering wheel, that you drive with on the road? Never seen such a thing!