DR Capitalism

XanaduRanch

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Sep 15, 2002
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As a parallel thread to Chris's DR Economy another question needs to be posed and debated.

Do Dominicans make Good Capitalists?

More specifically, is there a cultural component, barrier, or advantage to running a successful business while being born and bred a Dominican on this island?

Seeing the sheer ingenuity, vibrancy and energy most folks here have on the surface the answer would be that they could become exceptional capitalists once freed of a worthless and corrupt government. On the other hand, anyone who's lived here probably has frustrating stories like a few that I will post below to get the discussion started. These tend to make you realize they just haven't quite got the hang of it yet.

So! Are these kinds of problems 'in their genes' or just learned behavior that can be corrected with a little proper education and training in being a Capitalist Pig? Let the argument begin!

Tom (aka XR)
 

XanaduRanch

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A Few Good Bad Examples

One of the most inexplicable and frustrating behaviors for me that I experience with many businesses is that they make it so damn difficulty to give them your money when you want to buy something.

CASE 1 - Cabarete Hardware Storel
After having bought a great deal of building materials for Xanadu at this store over several months, I stopped by with Alba, and $30,000 pesos in my pocket to buy a long list of plumbing fittings and wood and metal to build a roof on a new utility building. I spoke with the clerk, and he was entering my order one item at a time into his computer as I checked off each little fitting, etc. Not two minutes in a friend walks in and he completely ignores me and my list and starts chatting about baseball with this guy. I wait for a couple of minutes, he never returns, another clerks asks if I've been helped. I stammered well, ah, I think so... he cuts off my gibbering in Spanish and starts taking my order. I have to ask what's been entered and what hasn't because I don't want duplicates, and as I am trying to get that straightened out now he too stops and joins the baseball conversation. This goes on for 15 minutes through four different clerks who all do the same thing! Even Alba couldn't understand what they were saying or doing. I left the parts on the counter and walked toward the door. Then they notice me! Come back! I said no and waved the stack of money at them and said see this? Old Mr. Ochoa is getting it now and you're not. Must have been a really good baseball game! It just cost you $30,000 pesos! Bye!

CASE 2 - Santiago La Sirena
Alba and I drove to Santiago last week specifically to La Sirena to buy furniture for our house in Santiago. We had previously shopped for what we wanted and now had cash in hand just to pick it up and take it to the house. We waited patiently for 2 hours for the salesman to disassemble a bed because he said he didn't have another and we had to take the floor model. Then someone else said they had another so we waited while he put the first back together and they searched for the carton. When they found the carton it didn't have a code sticker. More searching. All the while they are shutting off the lights and closing the store. After 2-1/2 hours the clerk tells us to come back tomorrow because they can't find now either the tag or the box and the store closed half an hour ago. I had $25,000 pesos of stuff on the counter along with the bed. So after driving all morning with money in my pocket just for the privelege of spending it at La Sirena their salesman just waved it off and told me to do it all over again on Monday. Ha! I left it all and vowed never to go back to that store.

CASE 3 - Santiago Codetel
Long story short, Alba is pregnant. It's hot! We arive at Codetel to correct and pay a $16000 peso bill for Flash installation. We take a number at 8:00am. We're 498! We read. We sit in the car in the AC. We go to Burger King for breakfast, then lunch. We check the meter on the wall every half hour. By 12:30 PM we enter again. Not a seat in the little room so we stand 20 feet back in the main lobby watching the little meter tick closer to our number. Now after 4 hours and 45 minutes it's at 495. I take Alba by the hand and we make our way into the room. The clerk taps the button without calling out any numbers at all even as we are walking toward her ... 496 ... 497 ... 500 ... 501 ... We hand her our ticket and she refuses to service us. Go get another number she says. You should have been here when 498 was up she says and ignores us for Miss 501 who just sat down. Alba almost divorced me on the spot I got so mad when we got back to the car. Take another number? Grrr. That one still frosts me!

CASE 4 - Sosua Liquor Store
After having bought Champagne at this store weekly for months I noticed the supply dwindling to nothing. As I bought the last bottle I asked the owner when they'd be getting another shipment in. He said Never. Why? Because they sold it all. Did they make money on it? Yes! So why not get more and make more money? He looked at me like I was a developmentally disabled child held back several grades in school and said over again, but much more slowly this time, "Because ... we ... sold ... it ... all!"

Now, is it just me? I know when one of my clients comes to me with money in hand to pay me I stop work, clear off my desk, say 'Hi! How are you doing! Come on in!' all with my hand out to take that cash. Never 'Damn, this is my wine break here! Can't you see I'm busy right now. Why don't you come back tomorrow with your payment!?' It's that behavior that makes me shake my head and wonder if there is anything any government could do to make things a lot better ...

Tom (aka XR)
 

Robert

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You have to take the good with the bad, it's all a matter of perception. Don't try and fight it, you will die trying...
 

Criss Colon

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I have more "STORIES" than you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that is another story! When the owner is not in the store,nobody cares about the customers!Why should they,they get paid to sit in the store,not work!I can't even get companies to come to the clinic to "bid" for jobs!!!!
What did you expect?
No way I would have left Codetel without being served!
I do know what you mean,I have no dealings with phone companies anymore.My wife wanted a phone/computer line,I said,"Go get one,and you can pay the bill"! I fell much better now!!!!!
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XanaduRanch

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Sep 15, 2002
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Well, you should have more stories I guess, CC. You've lived here longer. That Codetel thing was a year and a half ago and I was just starting to pick up Spanish. If it happened today I certainly would have camped right at her desk and made a completely pest of myself until she took care of me. But, you learn.

I know how to handle being laid back, and giving up the day for some wine on the beach when you have one those depressing Dominican Days when you just can't get anything done because the whole world is conspiring against you. I just look at them now as free vacation days!

But ... is this attitude so ingrained that a little business education would never change it? It almost reminds of of welfare in the states. "I've got this job, sure I could make 10x more money and have happy customers, but that's more work and I have enough to buy my Presidentes and Brugal so why bother?"

I think they have to learn to focus on their customers. I spent two months redesigning all the billing for my clients to make it easier for them to pay us, online, e-checks, credit cards, etc. That change alone increased our credit card sales from a few hundred dollars a month to nearly $10K/mo. And the customers are happier too!
 

ERICKXSON

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Xanadu and Criss i almost strangle a clerk the other day at a pharmacy she ignore me for 10 minutes when she was about to take her other friend i bitch loud at her and her boss came out of the office i explained the situation and she took care of me, it is not the first time and it's very weird you go to places that the service is on the extreme 10 diamonds other places pissed you off
 
Apr 26, 2002
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The irony is that in New York, Dominican immigrants have taken over the bodega industry - much to the chagrin of the more established Puerto Ricans who don't seem to be able to achieve anything outside of the entertainment industry or government.

But how does the bodega industry really work? Is it the epitome of entrepreneurism? Hell no! It's really just a huge syndicate. Goods are shipped to the bodegas on consignment from big brother. Big brother also does the inventory control. When items sell out, big brother sends more. Who is big brother? You don't want to know. The point is that independent business thinking is not required.

I suspect it works the same way at the Sosua liquor store. The liquor store takes what the syndicate provides, and it's the syndicate that decides whether or not to send more champaign. So the liquor store's response that there is no more because there is no more is probably accurate.
 

Tony C

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The beauty of Capitalism is that it rewards those who deserves it.

If you are ambitious, hardworking, studious, dedicated you will suceed.
If you are lazy, un-ambitious, ignorant and lack dedication you will fail.
Capitalism provides society with both types of people. Lets face it. Somebody has to mow my lawn and clean out my septic tanks.
If capitalism is failing in the DR for some people it is because they are raised on a steady diet of "The Goverment needs to take care of me!" A true capitalist looks at goverment as only an inpediment for the most part unless they have a business that goes after Goverment contracts. In that case the Goverment is just a business partner.
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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I think Tony C. hit the nail on the head.

According to Adam Smith's "Wealth of the Nations", wealth(wages/money) acretes to one according to his ability. Even if the person wants to be an engineer, if he is a better mechanic, then being a mechanic will be his fortune. Contrarily, Marx, in "Das Capital", wrote that each should be rewarded according to his needs. Therein is the paradox of democracy, in that when a group finds they can "vote themselves a free lunch", all goes to hell in a handbasket.

The US almost made that mistake over the past 70 years by increasing the number of "social programs" to the point of being ridiculous. Corrective legislation is slowly taking place, however.

Russia's experiment with Communism is a good example of an unworkable system of economics. On paper it looks good, but human nature destroys it's effectiveness for society and the only way it will work is under a benevolent dictatorship (which, out of necessity, becomes un-benevolent).

OK, I'll quit preaching to the choir.

Texas Bill
 

Criss Colon

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This is the PERFECT opportunity to re=tell my DR business mentality story!!

Santo Domingo,Dom.Rep.=Guy goes to a carpenter with a wooden chair,he asks the carpenter,"How much will you charge to make me a chair exactly like this chair?"...the carpenter examines the chair closely and says, "1000 pesos "................"OK",says the guy. I want 100 of these chairs,now how much will you charge me for each chair?"......The carpenter thinks carefully for a minute,and says,"1,500 pesos each".......The guy is in shock,and asks why the carpenter wants 1000 pesos to make only 1 chair,but 1,500 pesos each to make 100 chairs!!........."Thats very simple" says the carpenter,"Its easy to make one chair,but its a lot of work to make 100 chairs!"!!!
...........What A Country!

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XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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GG

It's not early! It's 9:30. Been here working away for 4 hours already. And I know lots of these other folks. It may not be early for them, it may just be very late!

Tom (aka XR)
 

GirlieGirl

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Jun 19, 2003
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Oh Hell No...

You all need to go back to bed... pull the covers over your heads and crash.. the only reason I am awake is cause my sister literally kicked me on the floor.... and now I have a busted up hip.
 

norman

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Re: This is the PERFECT opportunity to re=tell my DR business mentality story!!

Criss Colon said:
Santo Domingo,Dom.Rep.=Guy goes to a carpenter with a wooden chair,he asks the carpenter,"How much will you charge to make me a chair exactly like this chair?"...the carpenter examines the chair closely and says, "1000 pesos "................"OK",says the guy. I want 100 of these chairs,now how much will you charge me for each chair?"......The carpenter thinks carefully for a minute,and says,"1,500 pesos each".......The guy is in shock,and asks why the carpenter wants 1000 pesos to make only 1 chair,but 1,500 pesos each to make 100 chairs!!........."Thats very simple" says the carpenter,"Its easy to make one chair,but its a lot of work to make 100 chairs!"!!!
...........What A Country!

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I.ve come across the same thing. You go into a small manufacturing place and ask if they can make a sample you show them. YOu tell them that you can order x number of them, and what do they do .... brush you offf , don't care, seem disinterested. What I don't get is it's good money for them, a future rent , medical bills guaranteed etc.
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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What? Capitalism?

OK, XR always disagrees with me if I say this - I'm a socialist in my heart and a capitalist in my head. What I'd like to do with those folks that cannot understand the 1 chair to 100 chairs example, is to really teach them and show them what the differences are - this is my socialist heart.

My capitalist head says let 'em suffer! They have to learn the lessons as well in their own way. In the mean time, I'll make the 100 chairs and keep the customer happy.

Split personality this is eh! Wish I could consolidate into one whole person. Need counselling or good drugs.

But I have to take issue with what Tony C says. "If capitalism is failing in the DR for some people it is because they are raised on a steady diet of "The Goverment needs to take care of me!"

What I have a hard time reconciling, is how can people think this way, as the government has done jacksh!it for these folks for a very long time. How can these thoughts be accurate if they are unused to the government doing anything?

Personally, if the government wants to start doing stuff for me, I head for the hills. XR, more political lessons Yawohl!
 

XanaduRanch

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I am tired and my wrist hurts so I will keep this short so I can go do some laps in the pool to wake up.

The story about the chairs, the salesman in the store, etc. are great examples of why I posed the question. I don't think it has to do with government teaching people to be lazy here. We all know how laid back life is. If you look at it from the Dominican's perspective for a minute I can understand it - almost. It is more work! If you want to spend time playing Dominos, having a beer with a friend, or just time with your family, you might have time to build one chair, or twenty. But a hundred? Cut all the fun stuff in your life out! Hence a higher price for the extra time. From an entreprenurial stand point that's just silly. You're in business to make money so the more you sell the more you make.

Get it? What if you're not in business to make money, but just to make a living?

That's why I think there may be a cultural barrier here and this highlights it.
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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I reallly don't understand what the problem is. You all want to save up enough money to go to the DR and retire....take it easy....sip rum...watch young beauties prance about...reach up and pluck ripe fruit off a tree....a little piece of paradise...


So let me see if I understand it correctly.....YOU want to sit back and relax and take it easy....but you want DOMINICANS to live the rat race you left behind in the USA....hmmm....that sounds appealing to me as a native...
 

XanaduRanch

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Sep 15, 2002
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That's True

I had a line in my last post I edited out that said a lot of us are down here to relax, too. But the difference is that I am supposed to be retired. I still wind up doing tons of work because I love my work. It's my life! I couldn't separate one from the other.

The question still remains that if you've opened a hardware store for example you obviously want to make a profit. The better you serve your clients the more profit you make. Turning someone away with cash in hand makes no sense. If you just want to relax, and take it easy, then open 1/2 the day, or only two or three days a week and still provide good service that makes your cutomers happy. Opening the whole day but providing lousy service isn't a lifestyle choice it's either just plain stupid or caused by some other inherent cultural difference that doesn't allow a lot of folks to take their own business seriously.

And I've seen the same pattern repeated over and over and over and over to the point that I and lots of others here stop dealing with a lot of Dominican run companies because they just aren't reliable and to whatever extent possible we do it ourselves. It makes our lives a lot more stress free!

Am I wrong?
 
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norman

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mondongo said:
I reallly don't understand what the problem is. You all want to save up enough money to go to the DR and retire....take it easy....sip rum...watch young beauties prance about...reach up and pluck ripe fruit off a tree....a little piece of paradise...


So let me see if I understand it correctly.....YOU want to sit back and relax and take it easy....but you want DOMINICANS to live the rat race you left behind in the USA....hmmm....that sounds appealing to me as a native...

Maybe there important lessons to be learned here. Taking more time for the family, Living a little longer.