I've been researching Dominican culture and history extensively prior to my visit to DR next week, and am still confused as to whether the aboriginal tribes that were inhabiting the island of Hispa?iola had any legitiment surivivors. I know this is a tricky subject matter, since it is difficult to trace the lineage via scientific, nor documentional methods, but how would someone trace, or better yet claim heritage to this supposedly extinct culture? What's the verdict: are arawak/taino descendants dead or alive? Are the groups claiming to be arawak/taino descendents legit? I'm sure there may be traces of lineage in everyone inhabiting the island, but to what extent? Is it fair to believe that it is all based on assumption?
- Thread starter luisrod
- Start date
Taino Descendants: Dead or Alive?
It is the consensus that there are no living direct descendants of the Tainos in this country. Whatever is left of them survived through mixing with the conquistadors and the african slaves who came later.
go to moca and bonao you'll see some lineage there, if you really want to see how an arawak indian actually looked like take a trip to aruba you'll find many.
Tainos
According to a Dominican Republic History book I read, as I assume you know, the Tainos were enslaved by the Spanish Settlers and the vast majority of them died within a few years as the result of abuse,starvation and diseases contracted from exposure to the settlers (smallpox etc.). Apparently, however, about 500 of them escaped into the hills. Over time they would have mixed with the conquistadors and runaway african slaves which arrived later as Pib stated. We are talking about 5 centuries ago so you can imagine what the likelihood of a pure Taino would be today.
Larry
According to a Dominican Republic History book I read, as I assume you know, the Tainos were enslaved by the Spanish Settlers and the vast majority of them died within a few years as the result of abuse,starvation and diseases contracted from exposure to the settlers (smallpox etc.). Apparently, however, about 500 of them escaped into the hills. Over time they would have mixed with the conquistadors and runaway african slaves which arrived later as Pib stated. We are talking about 5 centuries ago so you can imagine what the likelihood of a pure Taino would be today.
Larry
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Pure Tainos are the stuff of legend. The people is Neiba insist that Tainos are still hidden in the Sierra de Neiba. Every noise that they hear in the forrest is explained as coming from the Tainos. But this begs the question: If they're there, why don't they come down for a beer? I haven't seen a conquistador for a while (unless you count German tourists).
There are plenty of places in the DR where indian bloodlines are evident. In my part of the Cibao, people with indian features are called "china" or "chino" because of their high cheek bones. I've seen lots of people who clearly have indian ancestry, but nobody who is even close to being pure Taino.
The Puerto Rican groups calling themselves "Tainos" are really just grass roots ethnocentrics. In both Puerto Rico and the DR, there has always been a cultural preference to emphasize the indian ancestry and influence and minimize the african ancestry and influence, even though the african is clearly dominant.
There are plenty of places in the DR where indian bloodlines are evident. In my part of the Cibao, people with indian features are called "china" or "chino" because of their high cheek bones. I've seen lots of people who clearly have indian ancestry, but nobody who is even close to being pure Taino.
The Puerto Rican groups calling themselves "Tainos" are really just grass roots ethnocentrics. In both Puerto Rico and the DR, there has always been a cultural preference to emphasize the indian ancestry and influence and minimize the african ancestry and influence, even though the african is clearly dominant.
Arawaks were peace-loving. Maybe your wife is descended of the Caribs? Any heads or assorted limbs in the fridge, that sort of thing?
Interesting article about the traces of Ta?no still evident today:
http://www.kacike.org/FerbelEnglish.html
Good article Jane J.
I was told when I was younger in Puerto Rico that the Arawaks were mostly made wxtinct by the Caribs, but I have never seen documentation on this.
I wonder though whether the prevelance of Taino words and customs in modern Dominican culture is really a significant sign that the Taino bloodline has survived, I can imagine that if blacks or latinos were to dissappear from American culture there would be evidence of their influence in our culture for many centuries, (or permanently more likely) as would be the case with any ethnic subculture.
I was told when I was younger in Puerto Rico that the Arawaks were mostly made wxtinct by the Caribs, but I have never seen documentation on this.
I wonder though whether the prevelance of Taino words and customs in modern Dominican culture is really a significant sign that the Taino bloodline has survived, I can imagine that if blacks or latinos were to dissappear from American culture there would be evidence of their influence in our culture for many centuries, (or permanently more likely) as would be the case with any ethnic subculture.
Taino heritage
There has been some genetic tracing which has proved that Taino blood is much more evident in Dominicans than was commonly thought.
Popular history dictates that 50 years after Columbus's arrival 97 % of the Tainos were eliminated. To some extent this is true. To understand this correctly you have to consider who exactly was registered in this censor. The indians that were included were from the few reservations that existed. The majority of the indigenous population that had survived had incorporated into Spanish culture and were not included in the census. Mostly women who had married spanish settlers and their offspring.
There has been some genetic tracing which has proved that Taino blood is much more evident in Dominicans than was commonly thought.
Popular history dictates that 50 years after Columbus's arrival 97 % of the Tainos were eliminated. To some extent this is true. To understand this correctly you have to consider who exactly was registered in this censor. The indians that were included were from the few reservations that existed. The majority of the indigenous population that had survived had incorporated into Spanish culture and were not included in the census. Mostly women who had married spanish settlers and their offspring.
Hey guys i understand about the 97% whipe out of the Tainos but what about the ones that ran into the forest im pretty sure they were smart enough to do that.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
Only DNA testing will tell BUT
How willthey know which is Taino and which is not? Bt elmination, I suppose.
Nevertheless, by the first census of the 1600s there were no "Indios" listed. They had either disappeared, integrated, or were not found.
As for remnants? Highly unlikely except for place names and a few words of vocabulary.
Now, I'll go read the article and see if I am way off base....heee heee
HB
How willthey know which is Taino and which is not? Bt elmination, I suppose.
Nevertheless, by the first census of the 1600s there were no "Indios" listed. They had either disappeared, integrated, or were not found.
As for remnants? Highly unlikely except for place names and a few words of vocabulary.
Now, I'll go read the article and see if I am way off base....heee heee
HB
DNA
I am into Geneology and my surname has had alot of questions answered using DNA. I feel if some one had some way of know the actual DNA type of the original inhabitants then it could be done. The cost is around $90 US a person. This has info about what all has been gouing on. So if a high school drop out cook knows about this stuff. Who else knows what is out there.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~allpoms/genetics1a.html
I am into Geneology and my surname has had alot of questions answered using DNA. I feel if some one had some way of know the actual DNA type of the original inhabitants then it could be done. The cost is around $90 US a person. This has info about what all has been gouing on. So if a high school drop out cook knows about this stuff. Who else knows what is out there.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~allpoms/genetics1a.html
There are Taino genes in Dominicans today.....I mean, when you look at some people you can see it in their features I think, just like with Puertoricans. When it comes to Native American ancestry in the Dominican Republic its mostly a matter of somatics. Blacks were called indio moreno for a long time to differentiate them from Haitians, and mulatos tried to pass for white.....
For many old families, links to Taino nobility whether real or faked were a way to make themselves appear more established in the land, to give them an air of authenticity and "Dominicanness" rather than to have all roots lead back to Spain.
These processes were present throughout the continent. The problem is that in the Dominican Republic, unlike in Peru, Bolivia, etc... the population was smaller and miscegenation was pretty rampant....
Actually, after the establishment of Haiti, the Francophile mulato elite tried to claim Taino descent as well, in order to escape "Blackness"......
But there are some simple ways of determining Native American blood, you check if you have shovel shaped incisors.....talk to family elders, see family stories....
Geneology is fascinating.... I've been able to trace mine to the late 16th century around Puerto Plata....and before that to the region of Murcia, in Spain.....
Dominican identity is fascinating......I love Afro-Dominican history.....and as unpopular as this may seem....Haitian culture and history. I guess this is because thats a side of our country that isn't really stressed, but the contribution of which is immense.........The Taino legacy is small...but its there, in place names, some foods.....and Haitian Creole has actually preserved some Taino grammatical forms in the interior as well as a little vocabulary!
For many old families, links to Taino nobility whether real or faked were a way to make themselves appear more established in the land, to give them an air of authenticity and "Dominicanness" rather than to have all roots lead back to Spain.
These processes were present throughout the continent. The problem is that in the Dominican Republic, unlike in Peru, Bolivia, etc... the population was smaller and miscegenation was pretty rampant....
Actually, after the establishment of Haiti, the Francophile mulato elite tried to claim Taino descent as well, in order to escape "Blackness"......
But there are some simple ways of determining Native American blood, you check if you have shovel shaped incisors.....talk to family elders, see family stories....
Geneology is fascinating.... I've been able to trace mine to the late 16th century around Puerto Plata....and before that to the region of Murcia, in Spain.....
Dominican identity is fascinating......I love Afro-Dominican history.....and as unpopular as this may seem....Haitian culture and history. I guess this is because thats a side of our country that isn't really stressed, but the contribution of which is immense.........The Taino legacy is small...but its there, in place names, some foods.....and Haitian Creole has actually preserved some Taino grammatical forms in the interior as well as a little vocabulary!
Its pretty easy to do research.....if you have family there, then have them go through records at the church where your family was baptized.....see how far back those records go, or headstones in the cemetery.....look at the professions they had and stuff and try to fit it into the historical period if Taino roots are possible.....I'm sure they are...you won't find specific records that will say it.....but you can look into the historical acocunts and try and take it from there.....
Dominican Republic study
Here is an excerpt from a Taino study conducted (from Nov, 2002) in the DR:
-----
Here is a ?footnote? to Dr. Juan Carlos Mart?nez Cruzado?s presentation, an informal E-mail message that he sent us on November 17. Thanks, Doctor, for permission to publish it! In the message, he talks about his analyses of the samples that we took in the three days after the conference and another quantity of samples taken by Lic. Arlene Alvarez, Director of the Regional Archaeological Museum of Altos de Chav?n, assisted by Aldofo L?pez, an independent scholar from Spain:
First of all, let me congratulate you for having graduated with honors as collectors of genetic material for posterity. The samples that Arlene sent are expanding the study very well. Thanks to you, we are getting a glimpse that there will be much to say about the mitochrondrial DNA of the Dominican Republic at the next Archaeology Congress. [34] ...
As an historian, Lynne is going to have a lot of work. It seems that the incidence of indigenous heredity in the Dominican Republic varies a lot with location. Something that we are beginning to see is that there is much more in the countryside than in the metropolis. But it is possible that in the countryside, also, there is substantial variability. The final results will give us an idea of which places the Ta?nos concentrated when they left the Spanish settlements. ... [36]
Until now, we have identified 15 indigenous samples in the Dominican Republic, 12 of which have been A and only 3 of which are C. The best place up to this moment has been Tubagua, which is where we first stopped along the route from Los Cocos to Santiago [the mountain road called Ruta Tur?stica]. Of the 7 samples that we took there, 4 turned out to be indigenous: 2 A and 2 C. A place that could beat Tubagua is El Seibo. From there we have only tested 9 samples for A, and already 3 have given positive results. We still have to test for C. Another good place was Y?sica, the second site where we stopped along the route from Los Cocos to Santiago. Of the 7 samples that we took there, 3 have had positive results (2 A and 1 C). The next best site was Monci?n. Of the 10 samples that we took there, 3 tested as indigenous, all A. It could be that San Jos? de las Matas will end up better than Monci?n. There we have tested only for A so far, and 1 out of 7 was positive. Among the remainder of the indigenous samples, the only positive result we obtained was one from among the 10 samples we took at Los Cocos. It was A. The 3 samples that Lynne took in San Juan de la Maguana were blanks, as were the 6 samples that we took in Santo Domingo. We also did a test for A among the 16 samples from La Romana, and not one gave a positive result. This suggests that large coastal cities near Santo Domingo have little incidence. To me, it nonetheless appears that Santiago de los Caballeros could have a much higher incidence. Dealing with a large city, it would be highly significant. [38]
citation:
Mart?nez Cruzado, Juan C. (2002). The Use of Mitochondrial DNA to Discover Pre-Columbian Migrations to the Caribbean: Results for Puerto Rico and Expectations for the Dominican Republic.
[39 paragraphs] KACIKE: The Journal of Caribbean Amerindian History and Anthropology [On-line Journal], Special Issue, Lynne Guitar, Ed.
Here is a link to the complete article...
http://www.kacike.org/MartinezEnglish.html
Here is an excerpt from a Taino study conducted (from Nov, 2002) in the DR:
-----
Here is a ?footnote? to Dr. Juan Carlos Mart?nez Cruzado?s presentation, an informal E-mail message that he sent us on November 17. Thanks, Doctor, for permission to publish it! In the message, he talks about his analyses of the samples that we took in the three days after the conference and another quantity of samples taken by Lic. Arlene Alvarez, Director of the Regional Archaeological Museum of Altos de Chav?n, assisted by Aldofo L?pez, an independent scholar from Spain:
First of all, let me congratulate you for having graduated with honors as collectors of genetic material for posterity. The samples that Arlene sent are expanding the study very well. Thanks to you, we are getting a glimpse that there will be much to say about the mitochrondrial DNA of the Dominican Republic at the next Archaeology Congress. [34] ...
As an historian, Lynne is going to have a lot of work. It seems that the incidence of indigenous heredity in the Dominican Republic varies a lot with location. Something that we are beginning to see is that there is much more in the countryside than in the metropolis. But it is possible that in the countryside, also, there is substantial variability. The final results will give us an idea of which places the Ta?nos concentrated when they left the Spanish settlements. ... [36]
Until now, we have identified 15 indigenous samples in the Dominican Republic, 12 of which have been A and only 3 of which are C. The best place up to this moment has been Tubagua, which is where we first stopped along the route from Los Cocos to Santiago [the mountain road called Ruta Tur?stica]. Of the 7 samples that we took there, 4 turned out to be indigenous: 2 A and 2 C. A place that could beat Tubagua is El Seibo. From there we have only tested 9 samples for A, and already 3 have given positive results. We still have to test for C. Another good place was Y?sica, the second site where we stopped along the route from Los Cocos to Santiago. Of the 7 samples that we took there, 3 have had positive results (2 A and 1 C). The next best site was Monci?n. Of the 10 samples that we took there, 3 tested as indigenous, all A. It could be that San Jos? de las Matas will end up better than Monci?n. There we have tested only for A so far, and 1 out of 7 was positive. Among the remainder of the indigenous samples, the only positive result we obtained was one from among the 10 samples we took at Los Cocos. It was A. The 3 samples that Lynne took in San Juan de la Maguana were blanks, as were the 6 samples that we took in Santo Domingo. We also did a test for A among the 16 samples from La Romana, and not one gave a positive result. This suggests that large coastal cities near Santo Domingo have little incidence. To me, it nonetheless appears that Santiago de los Caballeros could have a much higher incidence. Dealing with a large city, it would be highly significant. [38]
citation:
Mart?nez Cruzado, Juan C. (2002). The Use of Mitochondrial DNA to Discover Pre-Columbian Migrations to the Caribbean: Results for Puerto Rico and Expectations for the Dominican Republic.
[39 paragraphs] KACIKE: The Journal of Caribbean Amerindian History and Anthropology [On-line Journal], Special Issue, Lynne Guitar, Ed.
Here is a link to the complete article...
http://www.kacike.org/MartinezEnglish.html
The study seems interetsing but the DR part is all predictions.....and the sample size is pretty small.....partly because such tests are very expensive to conduct. I think a more logical and practical test would involve populations in the DR and Haiti....and then compare the results of that study rather than PR....It also doesn't take into mind the population changes in regions, migrations, etc.....MTDNA is still something new, its only good when you know what you are looking for.....and it can be present without a related phenotype necessarily......so with small samples, the basis of who they choose kind of damages the results.....I'm pretty skeptical as to the credibility of these studies.......they need larger sample sizes and 2 populations to compare with the target population......one which is closely related, and one which is more remotely related to be sure that the MTDNA evidence you are looking at is really what you think you are looking at.....
I think the low tech way.....oral history, looking into folk practices, local dialects and etc are a better way to determine Taino influence than the high tech way......also less chance of making a mistake and a lot less costly!
I think the low tech way.....oral history, looking into folk practices, local dialects and etc are a better way to determine Taino influence than the high tech way......also less chance of making a mistake and a lot less costly!
diablorojo,
I like the idea of studying the oral history and folk practices, a more organic & human approach-- and perhaps allowing for intuitive connections not to be found on a DNA test strip? As time passes, such evidence becomes less distinct and more debatable, which is a shame.
If genetic proof were established, perhaps it would create a basis for the methods you suggest? So both methods would cooperate to paint a finer picture than either alone? I like to think the advances in genetic testing would create a bigger opportunity for funding, but perhaps that is wishful thinking.
I was actually searching to discover if there was a study of Y chromosome markers for male descendency (females do not carry this particular marker, rather, the female marker changes with every generation, so the geneology could only be traced through males). I know little about this, but was fascinated by the Y chromosome study that proved global migration out of Africa 50,000 years ago... after so many years of study, the speculation and theories about how humans arrived everywhere else disappeared, the truth known. Until that study, there had never been proof because ocean levels had risen, thereby hiding migratory routes. I found that study to be so fascinating ... and it indeed carried a profound human aspect, because the researching scientist visited people in isolated regions and told them-- by way of translators!-- that they were direct descendents of a 50,000 year old African male. It was fascinating.
I'm sure you already know this- was recounting for others who may be interested.
D
I like the idea of studying the oral history and folk practices, a more organic & human approach-- and perhaps allowing for intuitive connections not to be found on a DNA test strip? As time passes, such evidence becomes less distinct and more debatable, which is a shame.
If genetic proof were established, perhaps it would create a basis for the methods you suggest? So both methods would cooperate to paint a finer picture than either alone? I like to think the advances in genetic testing would create a bigger opportunity for funding, but perhaps that is wishful thinking.
I was actually searching to discover if there was a study of Y chromosome markers for male descendency (females do not carry this particular marker, rather, the female marker changes with every generation, so the geneology could only be traced through males). I know little about this, but was fascinated by the Y chromosome study that proved global migration out of Africa 50,000 years ago... after so many years of study, the speculation and theories about how humans arrived everywhere else disappeared, the truth known. Until that study, there had never been proof because ocean levels had risen, thereby hiding migratory routes. I found that study to be so fascinating ... and it indeed carried a profound human aspect, because the researching scientist visited people in isolated regions and told them-- by way of translators!-- that they were direct descendents of a 50,000 year old African male. It was fascinating.
I'm sure you already know this- was recounting for others who may be interested.
D