Visa Refusal for Spouse

Rosanie

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Sep 20, 2002
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CIC (Citizenship and Immigration Canada) has refused entry as a Permanent Resident to my husband. We are appealing the decision of the Immigration Officer with the Immigration and Refugee Board's appeal division - IAD.

This past summer I was with my husband in DR when he received the letter from CIC. We were/are devestated and very upset with the decision. The reasons that have been given are few and unjust! We have been married for almost 2 years and I live with him every 3 months for 3-8 weeks at a time! It is not easy but we make it happen. They claim that we haven't maintained a strong relationship!! They claim that I do not speak Spanish. I have yet to meet anyone from CIC to give them chance to judge my abilities. I am not a fluent speaker but I would say I speak at a conversational/intermediate level.

The onus is on us now to prove that we are a legitmate couple.
We have a lot of 'evidence' such as; receipts/purchases/travel, letters/cards, pictures, telephone bills/cards, Notarized letters from family/friends/landlord in DR/supermarket etc, copies of my passport and other documents.

I expect to get a hearing date either December or early next year. Hopefully our case will be selected for the new Alternative Dispute Resolution process instead of a hearing.

Anyone have experience with this particular situation?

Thanks
 

mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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From past experience, the living arrangement could be a major problem. 24/7 is what they may be looking for. You have a lot of great documentation. Did you change your name? Can you get a certificate from a school as to your Spanish-speaking ability? Does he speak English? How do you meet people at the CIC? Children? Do they observe him while you are away?
Good luck on the appeal.
mk
 

Rosanie

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Sep 20, 2002
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Well I wish I could live with my husband 24/7 in the DR while we wait for this process to be over but I have my livelyhood to deal with here in Canada. Not to mention various other responsibilites. If we do not convince IAD in the hearing then I will be moving to the DR to be with him.

We do not have children yet and I have not yet legally changed my name.

My husband speaks a little English and he continually is learning more everyday. I have registered for a Spanish class and will ask for a language assessment then.

I was unable to join my husband for his interview with CIC earlier this year. That would have been an opportunity for CIC to meet me and see how my husband and I interact. I arrived in the country 3 weeks after the interview!! I do not believe that CIC observes him at any other time than the interview itself.
 

ricktoronto

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Jan 9, 2002
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Did You Use A Laywer in Canada?

I had someone quite close do a fiancee visa request ( same basic idea since you wind up in Canada and then have to get married within 90 days) and it was approved in about 3 months most of which was spent doing police clearance, medical etc.

The fiancee in question didn't have a pot to P in and the relationship was at best 4 or 5 months in duration at the time of application. Certainly not married for 2 years, living on and off as best you can etc.

They used a name brand lawyer in Toronto. NOT a so-called Immigration Consultant ( who charge the same anyway) which some people have used to their dismay. Also while I acknowledge the costs are high vs. doing it on one's own, I think the worst outcome is trying to do it without aid as a savings measure.

If it matters the applicant/sponsor here in Toronto made a lot of money, are you having a problem with the LICO? CIC seemed to rubber stamp it basically, so maybe there is a defect that a professional can assist with.
 

Rosanie

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Yes, we are using a lawyer from Toronto working at Canadian Immigration Advisors. I was referred there from a friend. He is charging us a flat rate.

I have asked my MP to be involved and in some ways I do not know if that is what rocked the boat! I called my MP a few times to make inquiries and maybe that ticked off some people over in the embassy. I have asked them to write a letter on my behalf and they responded that it wasn't somthing the MP usually does in her capacity.

What is LICO?

Thanks!
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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My wife and i didn't have to prove any of the things they are making you prove. My wife didn't speak much English and my Spanish was also poor, we had plenty of pictures, letters...etc, but
i question their query on your ability to speak Spanish, I would think that it would be a legtimate denial based on his lack of English or Education...etc. As long as you have an income large enough to support the 2 of you and can prove you have a legit marriage should be enough. My wife didn't even have to go for an interview. I'm guessing its a different standard for women. Time to go higher than your MP.
 
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mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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Many of us feel for her. The point is the CIC doesn't look at her feelings. They look at facts.
I think immigration laws have certain guidelines for determining the validity of a marriage. Too many people have gotten immigrant visas through marriages that were of convenience. So the immigration offices have certain criteria to verify.
They look for physical signs to determine almost everything. I heard the US Immigration once asked a couple separately what kind of toothpaste they used...
Use your imagination; they've seen and heard it all.
The lack of a common culture, language, and living together less than 1/3 of the year are unfortunately not working in favor of acceptance.
We all want a happy ending to this story. In this case, Rosanie, your patience and your lawyer will improve the odds.
mk
 

AnnaC

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Jan 2, 2002
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I've deleted some posts.

Rosanie hasn't asked for anyone's opinion on long distance relationships. She asked if anyone has experience with a visa refusal in CANADA.

I'm sure ricktoronto will be back to explain what LICO is all about.
 
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Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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mkohn said:
I heard the US Immigration once asked a couple separately what kind of toothpaste they used...

US immigration asked my daughter (at that stage 9 years old) what her mother's (my) name is. My daugher said: "-- Uh! I don't really know -- I call her Mom. Some other people call her by some other name but I don't really worry about that".

More seriously, this is a tough issue to struggle with. All I can suggest, is take photo's, more photo's - with datestamps. Write down a note of every 'family get-together, the people who were there and the occasion. Get affidavits from your husband's mother, father, nieces, the priest, the neighbors and whoever you can think of, to attest that you are married and live together for part of the year because of economic reasons only - and give them so much paperwork documenting the issue, that they cannot complain. Insist that there is a Spanish and English person present for any interviews to cut through misunderstandings, or ask your laywer to take an interpreter.

Good luck!

When we first went to the US to live, (my husband is American) we had to prove relationship and prove that my two children were mine. It is a hard process. Files of paperwork documenting the relationship helped.
 

mobrouser

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Jan 1, 2002
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lico is the income ratio that immigration Canada uses to determine the ability to sponsor family members. it is based on income versus the number of family members you wish to sponsor. there should be details on the CIC webpage.

mob
 

GypsyGRL

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Apr 26, 2003
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Sorry to hear of your troubles...

I wondered when there would be someone from the DR. The same thing happened to another cdn woman. She has been married to a man from Cuba and they refuded him entry, said their relationship wasn't strong enough! They're mistake was during separate interviews they said different dates of when they met. It was a difference of he said when they started dating, she said when they first met. That was enough for Immigration.
Stay strong and good luck to you.

This lady went to the media and the reporter pushed some buttons for her with the story, maybe you could try the same tactics? I'd like to know if you were a man if you would still have this much trouble?:confused:
 

ricktoronto

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Jan 9, 2002
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Sounds Dodgy

Rosanie said:
Yes, we are using a lawyer from Toronto working at Canadian Immigration Advisors. I was referred there from a friend. He is charging us a flat rate.

I have asked my MP to be involved and in some ways I do not know if that is what rocked the boat! I called my MP a few times to make inquiries and maybe that ticked off some people over in the embassy. I have asked them to write a letter on my behalf and they responded that it wasn't somthing the MP usually does in her capacity.

What is LICO?

Thanks!

LICO is the Low Income Cut Off which is based on the total family size ( in your case I guess just you and him , so 2 people) under which you can't sponsor under the family class as they think you're broke.

"Canadian Immigration Advisors" sounds just like the non-lawyer firms that proliferate in Toronto. Is the person on your case an actual lawyer?

My acquaintance used a lawyer in Yorkville whose practice is limited to Immigration. His fee was only $1500 plus of course the application and ROLF. Which everyone pays. He paid the ROLF in advance,e.g. with the application fee, maybe that conotes more seriousness, I don't know.
 

norman

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Apr 10, 2003
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Re: visa

ricktoronto said:
LICO is the Low Income Cut Off which is based on the total family size ( in your case I guess just you and him , so 2 people) under which you can't sponsor under the family class as they think you're broke.

"Canadian Immigration Advisors" sounds just like the non-lawyer firms that proliferate in Toronto. Is the person on your case an actual lawyer?

My acquaintance used a lawyer in Yorkville whose practice is limited to Immigration. His fee was only $1500 plus of course the application and ROLF. Which everyone pays. He paid the ROLF in advance,e.g. with the application fee, maybe that conotes more seriousness, I don't know.

My immigration layyer said that in the case of Spousal immigration income is not really a factor unless you are on social services.
 

Rosanie

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Sep 20, 2002
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Thank you for all the messages and support.

Our lawyer is a lawyer and not just an advisor. Our fee is comparable to what ricktoronto said his acquaintance paid. IS ROLF the retainer? If so, then I paid that too when I applied for sponsorship back in March 2002.

There is not a problem with the LICO or else we would not have made it this far in the process and as someone pointed out not relevant unless you are on social assistance.

My husband and I have played by the rules. We have been honest about everything with Immigration and we have watched others not so honest get their papers to Canada. This process is becoming very difficult to stand by and watch. At this point, we are keeping our heads up and compiling evidence. I will know in about a month whether or not our case will be heard in a hearing or in a ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) process with a mediator. Anyone have experience with that?

I plan on giving my MP another call today to see if she has changed her mind and will help me out.

If plan A doesn't pan out(Immigration Appeal Division denies my husband a Visa to come to Canada) then I will be looking at either taking it to Federal Court of Canada or plan B - moving down to DR to be with him and hopefully finding a job working with Deaf people.
 

rafael

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Jan 2, 2002
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Many times immigration or the consulate will deny applications to see how serious you really are. many 'couples" just bail right away, and they were probably not serious to begin with.

There is NO need to have lived together 24/7, if you have photos, pasport stamps, phone receipts etc, you should do fine at your hearing.
 

norman

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Apr 10, 2003
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refusal of visas to Canada

It's a big problem because if you want to be with your girl or boyfriend you basicall have to get married to get him or her into Canada. Then Dominican law kicks in if it doesnt work out. YOu should be able to get a visa for them to visit , so you can at least make plans where you both want to live. What happend if you get married , you sponser them , they come for the first time and they dont like it here. Your screwed.
 

ricktoronto

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Jan 9, 2002
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Well Not Quite

norman said:
It's a big problem because if you want to be with your girl or boyfriend you basicall have to get married to get him or her into Canada. Then Dominican law kicks in if it doesnt work out. YOu should be able to get a visa for them to visit , so you can at least make plans where you both want to live. What happend if you get married , you sponser them , they come for the first time and they dont like it here. Your screwed.

You can bring in someone for 90 days as a fiancee during which time if they don't like it they can go home to the DR and as long as you are not married then no marital law applies.

Frankly getting married first is no guarantee as the original poster has found out.

If you go to Canada and live together as actual married persons after not too long ( like 1 second) then Canadian law applies.