Balance of power.

Tony C

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Chavez has decided to threaten the balance of power in the Caribbean by openly negotiating with Russia for the purchase of 50 Mig-29SMT Fighters. These are a very advanced development of the Standard Mig-29. Besides being a fighter they have enhanced air-to-ground capabilities and are to be equiped with AS-M Anti-radiation missiles.
Frankly I doubt this deal will go through as the price is astronomical and Venezuela is all but broke. But if it does how do you guys think it will effect the balance of power in the Caribbean basin? Will Columbia Respond? Brazil has already announce they are looking for New Fighters.
How about the DR? Tensions are high between the DR and Venezuela. Woud the DR be forced to spend money to modernize their all but non-existant Air force?
 

samiam

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Yeah,

I heard Crappolito wanted some of Saddam's left over Scuds. I think Pepe Goico is negotiating price and delivery as we speak.
 

Criss Colon

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I hope venezuela gets them!!!

It will give the USAF some taget practice against the mig29,in case we ever have to go up against them in the future!CC:alien:
 

pasha

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What in the holy....

hell does anyone in that part of the world need hi-performance fighters for? Have seen MIG29 in several airshows.....even old models were pretty good in hands of the top/top pilots, except they had to swap out engines after each performance.

No competition against F16/14/15....can nail their asses head on shot at exceptionally long range. Anyhow, who has the money to keep pilots in realistic training? Not many countries can afford the fuel bills. You fight only as good as you train.

How about some food for kids or medicine for the poor instead?

Best, P
 

Tony C

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Re: What in the holy....

pasha said:

No competition against F16/14/15....can nail their asses head on shot at exceptionally long range. Anyhow, who has the money to keep pilots in realistic training? Not many countries can afford the fuel bills.

Venezuela has fuel Bills? Fuel is the one thing they can afford.

pasha said:
How about some food for kids or medicine for the poor instead?

Talk to the UN!

Anyway, Back to the Subject.
This alleged Mig Buy. Is this just posturing by Chavez to spread a little fear against his invented foes? The USA, DR and Columbia? He is using the oldest trick in the book by Leftists. Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Allende, Ortega. "All our problems our enemies fault."
 

pasha

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Re: Re: What in the holy....

Tony C said:
Venezuela has fuel Bills? Fuel is the one thing they can afford.

Talk to the UN!

Anyway, Back to the Subject.
This alleged Mig Buy. Is this just posturing by Chavez to spread a little fear against his invented foes? The USA, DR and Columbia? He is using the oldest trick in the book by Leftists. Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Allende, Ortega. "All our problems our enemies fault."
Wasn't really thinking just about Venezuela....they may have the fuel, but the Russians don't give a big crap about that since they've got big reserves of their own. Cash is King.

Talk to the UN? Jesus! Why in the world didn't I think of that...it's so obvious. Sure...they're the ones who do such an excellent, cost effective job in feeding and doctoring the masses.

I'll mosey along, with an extraneous thought, to wit: believe the MIG buy when you see it happen.

Best, P

PS - Hitler wasn't a Leftist exactly
 

samiam

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Does this have anything to do with the Latin American tour the Ukraine Prez is doing. I dunno about Venezuela, but he is visiting the DR for sure, maybe to sell us some AK-47 to repell Chavez's Migs.:dead:
 
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what is the range of a mig-29? could a mig make a round trip bombing run from venezuela to the dominican republic?

do you think chavez is willing to take some kind of military action against a neighbor to divert attention from the wrecked economy,rally the nation, or assassinate the exiled ex-president of venezuela in the DR? is he that desperate?

trujillo went off the rails when he tried to assassinate venezeula's president bettancourt and it lead to crippling OAS economic and diplomatic sanctions. all of which eventually lead to his downfall. perhaps chavez is heading down that path.

does anyone think that venezuela's ex-president is really plotting against chavez? or is all this just chavez paranoia?
 

Tony C

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joel pacheco said:
what is the range of a mig-29? could a mig make a round trip bombing run from venezuela to the dominican republic?

With ferry tanks probobly but it would be close. Then again the DR has no Air-defense anyway so loitering time is not important.

do you think chavez is willing to take some kind of military action against a neighbor to divert attention from the wrecked economy,rally the nation, or assassinate the exiled ex-president of venezuela in the DR? is he that desperate?[/B]


Yes and stupid enough also. Remember he is the man who staged a coup with just a small band of soldiers.

does anyone think that venezuela's ex-president is really plotting against chavez? or is all this just chavez paranoia? [/B]


A direct assasination attempt? No. Plotting the removal of Chavez along the lines of what is happening now with the Pleblesite? YES
 
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in the last week chavez has raised the pay of venezuela's army by 30%, and purged all the military officers who signed the petition in support of a plebiste scheduled for feb. 2004.

he has warned the population that the petition they are signing is not a secret ballot, that all signers are required to register there names, ID numbers, addresses, and finger prints. anyone who signs will "be remembered forever".

yesterday chavez accused the vatican ambassador to venezuela of siding with the "bandit opposition". he has also described the bishops and archbishop of venezuela as a "cancer" on venezuela.

venezuela's foreign minister has called the columbian defense minister a "thorn in the side" of venezuela. the venezuela foreign minister also directed several personal attacks on columbia's defense minister. the columbian foreign minister gave a speech a few days ago at the harvard club in new york at which she claimed the columbian government had information that chavez was training and aiding the leftist rebels fighting to topple he bogata government. the columbians gov't is also angry that the rebels use venezuelan territory as safe bases to launch attacks on the columbian army and country side. chavez denies all the charges. the venezuelan FM said that the columbian defense minister ramirez was "wearing the boots of a warmonger".

chavez has called the recent riots of in bolivia a "revolution of the poor" and refused to support the ex president when he had requested help.

chavez has also accused the US and OAS of meddling in his nations internal affairs after both stated publicaly that new elections were the best solution to venezuela's problems.

a recent poll showed that 2 out of 3 citizens would vote to get rid of chavez.

chavez says that he will win any future election.

juan peron told trujillo that once the catholic church turns against you, it is over.(unless you are castro...)

it seems everything will come to a head in feburary 2004. or perhaps chavez will do something really off the wall. it doesn't seem this situation will end quietly.
 
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Tony C

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joel pacheco said:

juan peron told trujillo that once the catholic church turns against you, it is over.(unless you are castro...)

The Catholic Church has done nothing but provide the occaisional "lip Service" against Castro.
Something that I will never forget is the way the Pope kissed Castro's Ass.

it seems everything will come to a head in feburary 2004. or perhaps chavez will do something really off the wall. it doesn't seem this situation will end quietly. [/B]


Do you really expect that Chavez will let the election happen?

With the bulk of Military aid to Columbia being directed to Counter-insurgency and Anti-drug efforts the Bush administration has been in contact with Putin to squash any MIG deal to Venezuela. Because of this the deal between Venezuela and Russia for the MIGs is a strictly up-front CASH deal with no financing. At $37 Million I really doubt the even Chavez and force a deal like that down the Venezuelan people's throats.
But lets say that Chavez cuts down the size of the deal from 50 to 20 or so. What does Columbia do?
More important what does the DR do? They really cannot even consider the purchase of a aircraft to counter the MIG. Do they go to the US and ask for SAMs?
 

Texas Bill

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Balance of Power

For what it's worth, it would behoove Snakalito to request a Mutual Defense Assistance Treaty in light of the threat posed by the MIG's should any such deal go through. That would place the USA right in the middle of the fracus, since the DR military would be totally ineffective against the strategic interdiction of their infrastructure and manufacturing capability by the Venezuelan Air Force (provided they could get off the ground).

Plenty of raw, flat land and a storm-free deepwater port in the vicinity of Manzanillo. Maybe he'd offer that as an additional incentive since the USN is pulling out of Rooseveldt Roads in Puerto Rico.

Actually, I don't think any of the scenarios represented will happen so it's really a moot subject.

(Edited for this addition)

The balance of power in the Western Hemisphere is in the hands of the USA.
It has been so since Monroe's time and I don't think the USA will ever relinquish that role. I think any war between Western Hemisphere nations would be stopped immediately by the USA under the aegis of National Security.

Texas Bill
 
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Luis Puesan

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ABOUT THE MIG-29 of FAV

That is a rumor that appear at the Air Forces Monthly magazine that it is not true and probably Tony C picked up from the forum of our site. Here is what happened:

There is this guy, Henrico Angerman, from the Netherlands, that like to visit web sites such as "Fuerzas Militares Dominicanas" and the venezuelan site "FAV-CLUB" to read expositions and rumors that go around between military enthusiasts and sometime those rumors are picked up from government sources or news. Then, this Dutch man has the balls to write about those rumors and send emails to those European magazines that believe him (Mr. Angerman was "dismissed" from the Dutch defense magazine "Scramble" because of that).

No lone ago, the same magazine reported another similar note where my name was as the sender. In that note was reported the acquisition by the Dominican Air Force of 3 Sea King and 11 UH-1H Helicopters. Are you imagining when I picked up the magazine, here in Florida, and saw my name attached to that news?

Well, Mr. Angerman sent that news using my name as the source without any permission. He just made up that news from unofficial and official sources. Those helicopters were approved by the US Congress (in 2002) to be transferred to the Dominican Republic but until now nothing had happened with them. They are not in the Dominican Republic after all.

The same happen with the Super Tucano that was announced by EMBRAER in 2001 to be sale to the Dominican Air Force. EMBRAER made a mistake in announcing that sale (you know how the military is in DR). And immediately they (Dominican Government) canceled the order. But if you go and visit many military sites in the Internet, all have the Super Tucano listed in service with the FAD. Moreover, that airplane was delivered for the first time during the summer 2003 to the Brazilian Air Force. That is a new version of the Tucano family.

Again, the same happened with 10 Brazilian helicopters that the government of president Fernandez wanted to buy for the FAD. That just was an "Intent to purchase" letter.... but you find in many military web sites that the Dominican Republic has 10 AS330 helicopters from Brazil.

The same happened with the MIG-29SMT for the FAV. The MIG-29SMT is the latest version and more capable combat version of the MIG-29. It only is in service with the Russian Air Force. It has about 30% more capable that the export version that Cuba has. And 20% more than the MIG-29E in service with the Peruvian Air Force. Russia had put this aircraft on sale since 2000 but everyone perfect the Sukhoi SU-37MK rather than the MIG29. The FAV (Venezuelan Air Force) just did an "indented to purchase" letter to Russia. And the Venezuela congress did not approved the purchase due the economical crisis of the government.

That was really happened.

Responding of the capability of the MIG-29 to reach DR from Venezuela. The FAV right now have F-16A/B, Mirage 50, VF-5A (Venezuelan version of the F-5) that can reach the DR without problem and the FAD does not have anything to stop them...practically a Learjet with drugs can cruise right now the DR air space without being challenge by the FAD.

There was an incident in 1977-78 with MIG21 from the FAARC (Cuban Air Force) that were flying over Puerto Plata and Santiago, inclusive Fidel was planning to bomb San Isidro and the Dominican Armed Forces Headquarter at 27 de Febrero Avenue if Balaguer did not deliver the Cuban fishing boat that was in custody by the Dominican authorities in Puerto Plata.

You can read about that at my site www.fuerzasmildom.com was written by a Cuban friend, Ruben Urribares.

Chris Colon....listen.... the FAV pilots are in the same categories as the USAF's pilots two time they were invated to RED FLAGS and the Second time was requeted by the US pilots because they are that good! Do not over estimate the training of the Venezuelan pilots... my friend. I am Dominican who know what I am talking about. Where do you think the FAD send their pilots to take avanced course in aviation and tactics? They all go to Venezuela.
 
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Tony C

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Luis,

Point well taken about rumours inmilitary purchasing but the fact is still that Venezuela is/was contemplating the purchase of the MIGs.

The countries that are chosen to participate RED FLAG are decided by political considerations. Many times countries with smaller Airforces are chosen and allowed to participate. Then the US sets up a scenario in which they can excell that way they can go back home feeling good about themselves. After that when they are not invited back they can claim that the US is scared of being shown up by their country.
Who do you think taught the Venenezuelan AF how to fly and maintain those F-16?
It is my understanding that Venezuela has suffered a High Attrition rate with their F-16 and that many are not flyable.

Any suggestions on what the DR should do with their AF? Should they just Dedicate themselves to the SAR/Transport role or should they try to develop a COIN program? Do you see any hope for a credible air-defense in the future given the size and state of the economy?
 
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Luis Puesan

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Tony...I now Know that you don?t know what you are talking about my friend....How do you know about the Venezuela's F-16? Do you have friends in the FAV that tell you that? Well...let me tell you something....I have many friends who deal with the FAV every day... as well with other air forces in Latin America...

The FAV's F-16 received an upgrade in the 90s...also, I work for a well done defense corporation here in the USA and I deal with reports about aircraft, missiles and fire control every day...I designed many of those weapon brochures and interactive presentations of the Apache, F-16, F-22, etcc..... for that reason I said that I know what I know and don't talk to talk .... the reason that I intervened in this discussion was because you guys are talking just to talk without any proof!...

Do you know that FAV have the F-16 for 20 years and only two had been lost in accidents? Do you know that all have integrated the Littering pod systems to allow them to attack a low altitude any type of weather, alone with a extensive ECM package to avoid detection....Do you know what type of missiles they use?
Do you know that all Dassault Mirage 50 aircraft from the FAV, all are in good flying conditions...the only aircraft that the FAV do not use frequently because they are old are the VF-5...nevertheless, those few in service have modern avionic and had been upgraded...

Hey...if they bought the F-16 from the US it is very logical that the US also provided the training...No China or USSR!

Do you know that the Venezuelan Navy have several missile-guided frigates and it is one of the most modern Navy in the Caribbean?

Red Flag is not what you think it is...Have you ever saw a Top Gun o RED Flag exercise? Do you know that there are other countries that participate there such as Israel, UK, and France, Russia (YES MY FRIEND... THE RUSKIEs HAD BEEN THERE!), Japan, Italy, Germany, Poland, Sweden, all NATO's air forces you named it.....those are "small Air forces" as you called them....Wow!

DR's AIR FORCE.. and NAVY must disappear and converted into a Border Patrol Police force managed by the National Police or the Judicial System...the Dominican government do not have money to buy modern equipment....DR depends on donations from countries such as US, Taiwan, and Spain to supply their military with weapons.....We do not have money for that!

the Army has been using Trujillo's artillery pieces for almost 50 years. The Air Force only have 1 or 2 UH-1H helicopters in good operational status...they only have small liaison aircraft...the A-37B only one remains and it is for sale..., the rest are in the Junk "Park" behind San Isidro Air Base...Are you ever been there? Well you can find pieces of almost every aircraft that had served with the FAD since Trujillo's....

This is my last intervention in this comment ...
 
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Criss Colon

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An "Exercise" is one thing,"Combat" is yet another!!!

Some people do well in the "Classroom,and on the "Training" field,but they fail when they are getting shot at!! You may score 100 out of 100 on the firing range,but when your best buddy just got his head blown off,and "B-40s" are exploding all around you,you find out who has "Balls"!! You might ask Tony about that!How much combat experiance has the Venezualan,or Dominican Air Force had had??? :cool: :cool:
Cris Colon
 
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Luis Puesan

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Nice way to describe that I am a coward...my friend... Criss Colon, you don?t know me, I don?t know you,... let's keep it like that... Will you? ? BOY...and don?t get there please!

Because you probably will be running after your hear the first ?POP? at your birthday balloon! :)

And you don?t know what I had been trough in my life to give your opinion about my bravery?

Stay with the discussion and leave your personal attack for another time.... That showed me your true colors?when you don?t have the knowledge to withstand a discussion, you go to the personal level?That doesn't work my friend!

I pointed out to Mr. Tony C to explain where he is coming from, because I read all his comments and I will like him to stand for what he said with proof. That's all...

Also I am not hide my name under a nick name ...IT IS ME! JUST ME!

All my comments are to the point without ambiguous comments as a "British tabloid". If my comments bother your intelligence ...just beat it! or stay quiet! ZIPPPPPED IT!
 
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luis, those comments were really not necessary.

tony c. might have got his information on the air force from internet sources. you point out yourself that many internet websites contain incorrect information on the world's militaries.

you have access to information and people that most people do not. why do you have to be so insulting to others?

these forums exist for the free exchange of information, debate, etc. feel free to correct people ,but don't insult everyone.

does the DR have some kind of defense treaty with the united states? would the US come to the DR's defense if chavez does do something radical like bomb the ex-president of venezuela's house?

the dominican military might only have old equipment, but i don't think it needs to have state of the art equipment to fulfill its mission. a military doesn't have to be state of the art or nothing at all.

the latin world has civil wars (columbia,peru, and to a lesser extent mexico) and unrest in bolivia, and haiti. the DR has been lucky to be spared that for the last 30 years. i think an army is a good idea. even an army of obsolete equipment. i doubt a rebel army would show up in santo domingo with apache helicopters and merkava tanks anyway.
 

Robert

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Luis Puesan - I appreciate your insights but not your arrogance.

Congratulations on your site, very nice. Obviously you know your
stuff and are passionate about it.

Being a little humble can get you a long way sometimes...
 
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Luis Puesan

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I did not insult noone..... First look what mr. C wrote:

"Who do you think taught the Venenezuelan AF how to fly and maintain those F-16?"

I am response to let him know that I don't comment just to comment without fact because you create missunderstanding on people that may think that you know what you dont know

Also...this is getting a little out of control....

It was a pleasure to meet you all... keep talkin keep having fun...good subjects

Thank you Robert for your comments you and everyone else are welcome to visit it...for those that dont know me you have the wrong image of me just because I stated my point of view....

SEE YA!
 
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