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Dominicans and blacks
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uhhhhhhhhh, maybe your mom or dad is Dominican.....just maybe.
duhhhh
Don't know what your trying to get at, since you can answer the question yourself.
Welcome to DR1
even though your first post is a loaded question
duhhhh
Don't know what your trying to get at, since you can answer the question yourself.
Welcome to DR1
even though your first post is a loaded question
My daughter is Dominican in spite of the fact that her Mommy and Daddy are American born of American born parents. She was born here and has full rights to dual citizenship or citizenship of either country she chooses when she is of age. Of course, that is only a legal definition. I think you must be getting at a more of the "street" definition.
race and politics
Hola a todos!
I agree that race, ethnicity, and identity are very complex issues without an easy definition. I'm a graduate student at Florida International University in Miami and am writing my thesis on Dominican immigrants and the identity issue. I am currently working on part of my paper concerning how racial attitudes have affected politics (especially since 1994 and the situation with Pena Gomez).
If you would be interested in completing a short survey (completely confidential) about racial and identity issues as well as some political views, I would really appreciate it. Please email me at investigaciondominicana@hotmail.com and I will send you the survey. I have already sent it to some of my Dominican friends, but I need to get as many opinions as possible. Thanks so much for your help and have a great day!
Angela
Hola a todos!
I agree that race, ethnicity, and identity are very complex issues without an easy definition. I'm a graduate student at Florida International University in Miami and am writing my thesis on Dominican immigrants and the identity issue. I am currently working on part of my paper concerning how racial attitudes have affected politics (especially since 1994 and the situation with Pena Gomez).
If you would be interested in completing a short survey (completely confidential) about racial and identity issues as well as some political views, I would really appreciate it. Please email me at investigaciondominicana@hotmail.com and I will send you the survey. I have already sent it to some of my Dominican friends, but I need to get as many opinions as possible. Thanks so much for your help and have a great day!
Angela
Stands for Dominican American Student Organisation
D.A.S.O. Florida International University F.I.U.
D.A.S.O. Florida International University F.I.U.
I'm Puertorican and my husband is Dominican my kids were born in NY and they are not yet of age to define or to say what they feel their nationality but when you ask my 4 year old son he says soy dominicano and my daughter does too she's 6...but then she says Mami what are you and I say puerto rican and she now says she is as too....mind you my husband didn't like that but they have been to DR so many times and I can't truly say I'm boricua cause I've never step foot on the land. So I would say as long as you are comfortable with yourself and your origin if you feel more in tuned to your "domicano" roots then say you are....and if the conversation gets more into depth then you go through the story my moms this my dads that....
Concerning the "Racial" issue about Dominicans....
Not until I moved out of The Dominican Republic (15 years ago) realized how intense is our feeling towards racism in the Dominican Republic. Specifically being Black.
One thing to ponder is the fact that there are no Black people in the Dominican Republic according to the natives. There are only Indios (entre los cuales hay Indios claro e Indio obscuro), Color Caoba, Morenos, y por supuesto Blancos. No Negros per se?
Cuidado si usted llama a una persona Negra. No way Jose, Aqui no hay Negros. Solo los Haitianos son Negros?
I am myself a Jabao, which for Dominican standard is White. To my surprise I was proven wrong after living for a while in the United States. Being surrounded by people from different cultural and ethnic backgrounds helped me understand better about my own culture. I was asked so many times; what are you Black or White? I simply responded, Dominican.
For the Dominican society, just like any other European influenced society, being ?Ocurito? or not white is a symbol almost of disgrace. If you are not White, or at least ?Clarito?, you are not a good looking, smart individual.
I do not know really who to thank for our beloved belief that being ?Ocurito? is a disadvantage.
Maybe the Spaniards, or some other Europeans, the locals????
One thing for sure that Trujillo helped to make it part of the Dominican belief.
Looking into our Dominican Society for answers. Is not rare to find cases in which the girl tells her parents and relatives; Me consegui un novio, the first question that comes to play is ?Y es Blanco el tipo? And if the answer is yes, they say: oh oh, po? debe ser buenmozo y con futuro?.LOL
Not until I moved out of The Dominican Republic (15 years ago) realized how intense is our feeling towards racism in the Dominican Republic. Specifically being Black.
One thing to ponder is the fact that there are no Black people in the Dominican Republic according to the natives. There are only Indios (entre los cuales hay Indios claro e Indio obscuro), Color Caoba, Morenos, y por supuesto Blancos. No Negros per se?
Cuidado si usted llama a una persona Negra. No way Jose, Aqui no hay Negros. Solo los Haitianos son Negros?
I am myself a Jabao, which for Dominican standard is White. To my surprise I was proven wrong after living for a while in the United States. Being surrounded by people from different cultural and ethnic backgrounds helped me understand better about my own culture. I was asked so many times; what are you Black or White? I simply responded, Dominican.
For the Dominican society, just like any other European influenced society, being ?Ocurito? or not white is a symbol almost of disgrace. If you are not White, or at least ?Clarito?, you are not a good looking, smart individual.
I do not know really who to thank for our beloved belief that being ?Ocurito? is a disadvantage.
Maybe the Spaniards, or some other Europeans, the locals????
One thing for sure that Trujillo helped to make it part of the Dominican belief.
Looking into our Dominican Society for answers. Is not rare to find cases in which the girl tells her parents and relatives; Me consegui un novio, the first question that comes to play is ?Y es Blanco el tipo? And if the answer is yes, they say: oh oh, po? debe ser buenmozo y con futuro?.LOL
El Moreno said:
Domincian, Cuban, Italian, French, Canadian, Polish, Brazilian, Mexican, American, Chinese, etc.- These are cultures a connection to a specific country
White, Black, Indian, Latino, Asian, etc- These are races a connection to DNA and a bloodline.
You can't be half one culture, half one race.
What is the origins of the 1/2 black? Is it Cuba? Brazil? Nigeria? USA? England? Jamaica? Haiti?
If your mom is from DR and Dad from Haiti.. You're half Dominican, Half Haitian. If your mom is Latina and your Dad black. You are half Latina Half Black.
Decide if you want identify yourself by race or culture. And you'll have your answer. But if you feel more Dominican than anything else... Just call yourself Dominican. Like if your other parent is a Haitain and you've never been there, don't know any of the customs, traditions and have no connection to the culture then why claim it? I think it should come from the heart and you should identify with whatever you wake up every morning feeling.
lto me your just a person of color.
Look the caribean island are no different than the states and no different then Brazil which has the second largest population if people "recognized" with black skin. They were all SLAVE countries. Period. So you can get caught up in this I'm not black or i'm lighter complexion so I'm really not white nor black.
Look, your a person of color. Save the color mess for the Statistic takers, and let them spend time marginalizing and categorizing people.
Dominicans!! your people of color. Now if you want to be white to feel excepted, thats up to you.
There was this one test people always joked about, even though it was true....."Do you think you could get a drink at a white drinking fountain in the 1950's and 1960's without getting hog tied in the states?
If you can answer that question, you already know what many people see.
And if you claim, "well what if they hear me speak spanish or Indian. Well then your just a spanish speakin' , indian speakin, "Black person." (there is another word but I wont use it)
I had this debate with my wife...and she asked me, "what do people see when they see me in the states"?.......I said, "to be honest, if you don't open your mouth, a light skinned sista" Man she was hot. But I was being up front. She wasn't angry that she looked black mind you, she actually prefer to be darker, she was upset that she did not appear 1. Latina, and/or 2. a Dominican.
She assumed people in the states knew what a Dominican looked like. "I said the only Dominicans, Americans really trully know, are Sammy and Pedro."
Probably if it wasn't for them, Americans would think Dominicans where majority white like they think Cubans are.
I said, "a lot of Americans don't even know where the the country is until you mentioned the word Haiti." That kind of pissed her off too.
Look the caribean island are no different than the states and no different then Brazil which has the second largest population if people "recognized" with black skin. They were all SLAVE countries. Period. So you can get caught up in this I'm not black or i'm lighter complexion so I'm really not white nor black.
Look, your a person of color. Save the color mess for the Statistic takers, and let them spend time marginalizing and categorizing people.
Dominicans!! your people of color. Now if you want to be white to feel excepted, thats up to you.
There was this one test people always joked about, even though it was true....."Do you think you could get a drink at a white drinking fountain in the 1950's and 1960's without getting hog tied in the states?
If you can answer that question, you already know what many people see.
And if you claim, "well what if they hear me speak spanish or Indian. Well then your just a spanish speakin' , indian speakin, "Black person." (there is another word but I wont use it)
I had this debate with my wife...and she asked me, "what do people see when they see me in the states"?.......I said, "to be honest, if you don't open your mouth, a light skinned sista" Man she was hot. But I was being up front. She wasn't angry that she looked black mind you, she actually prefer to be darker, she was upset that she did not appear 1. Latina, and/or 2. a Dominican.
She assumed people in the states knew what a Dominican looked like. "I said the only Dominicans, Americans really trully know, are Sammy and Pedro."
Probably if it wasn't for them, Americans would think Dominicans where majority white like they think Cubans are.
I said, "a lot of Americans don't even know where the the country is until you mentioned the word Haiti." That kind of pissed her off too.
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(99% of the people in this World have never heard of the Dominican Republic!
And ZERO % could find it on a map,including all Dominicans! So how would anyone ever recognize someone as dominican??Must be hard spending your whole life trying to decide which "Race" you belong to.Why not try the "Human Race" and leave it at that?
How much time have I spent trying to decide if I should "Ice Skate" and wear "Wooden Shoes",(Dutch),or become a "Coal Miner"(Welsh)????? NONE!!!!!
Cris Colon
And ZERO % could find it on a map,including all Dominicans! So how would anyone ever recognize someone as dominican??Must be hard spending your whole life trying to decide which "Race" you belong to.Why not try the "Human Race" and leave it at that?
How much time have I spent trying to decide if I should "Ice Skate" and wear "Wooden Shoes",(Dutch),or become a "Coal Miner"(Welsh)????? NONE!!!!!
Cris Colon
Jimmyrisas said:
No, for real. We founded it in UM back in 1995 or so.
It actually was one the most active student groups in the school's international activities. The general idea was to expose our culture to everyone in campus and I must say I was impressed with the turn out and support we got from everyone. I graduated in 1996 and I dunno what happened to it.
Now, regarding what you said about there being no blacks in the DR, its true. No one whats to be negro. I dunno why either. Its something I realized when I went abroad, but living in the DR as a kid, I never realized it. But its not only Dominicans. Most, not all, but most latin americans feel the same way about black and natives (indios)
I have a friend from Colombia, he is a musician, and in one of his songs, he talks about how latin americans have tried to build a Europe that could never be in this land. Perhaps we still feel the social resaca of that dream to build some sort of europe, idealed by a white upper class and built at the cost of our black and indian slaves. When we woke up from that futile effort, that social arrangement between the races persisted and has survived until this day.
Thats just my impression on things.
It sounds like people not wanting to carry the title or use the word black, negro, etc. to define themselves
but when they look in the mirror they know what they are.
So its more a matter of a lack of pride, self hate, and denyal.
If they had some form of self love they would have a different mind set. They are more proud of where they are from (country) then who they actually are and thats sad, because countries, names of countries and borders and even cultures change all the time, but you, who you are and your color will not.
So sad.
but when they look in the mirror they know what they are.
So its more a matter of a lack of pride, self hate, and denyal.
If they had some form of self love they would have a different mind set. They are more proud of where they are from (country) then who they actually are and thats sad, because countries, names of countries and borders and even cultures change all the time, but you, who you are and your color will not.
So sad.
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Re: (99% of the people in this World have never heard of the Dominican Republic!
I agree %100.
I find that most people who get hung up on the whole "black" thing are black themselves. When I speak to them I just see a person but they insist on remiding me .."Hey, I am Black, I am black, I am Black". So I say (in my own mind) "ok then, come back and talk to me when you get past your hangup about your color and want to speak on a human level".
Larry
Criss Colon said:And ZERO % could find it on a map,including all Dominicans! So how would anyone ever recognize someone as dominican??Must be hard spending your whole life trying to decide which "Race" you belong to.Why not try the "Human Race" and leave it at that?
How much time have I spent trying to decide if I should "Ice Skate" and wear "Wooden Shoes",(Dutch),or become a "Coal Miner"(Welsh)????? NONE!!!!!
Cris Colon
I agree %100.
I find that most people who get hung up on the whole "black" thing are black themselves. When I speak to them I just see a person but they insist on remiding me .."Hey, I am Black, I am black, I am Black". So I say (in my own mind) "ok then, come back and talk to me when you get past your hangup about your color and want to speak on a human level".
Larry
sancochojoe said:
I agree with you but I think the real the problem lies on education. For generations Dominicans have been taught poorly, to say the least, at our schools. This creates a class of ignorants who dont even know what they are or where they come from./
"Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival
Driven from the mainland
To the heart of the caribbean"
B.Marley
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sancochojoe said:
I usually tend to agree with you Sancohojoe but I'm not sure about this one. First can I ask, Are you an American? Were you born and raised in the US?
I don't think blacks in Carribean or Latin American nations lack self-love. They are what they are because of their environment, their culture, their teachings and upbringing.
You have to remember their history is very different from ours(assuming you're American) Cuba, DR, etc... they did not have the civil rights movements of the 60's where Blacks learned to embrace their race. They never learned to say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud. That is our history, our value system and it's not fair that we impose our beliefs on their culture.
They have the right to live by their own belief system and just because I may disagree, it's not my right to pass judgement and say they don't love themselves. I have been conditioned and taught to think the way I think and Dominicans have been conditioned and taught to think the way they think.
A LOT of damage has been done over the last 500 years. People have to change their way of thinking about the color black and what it represents. We in the US embrace the word black, countries like the DR will have to learn to embrace it on their own tems, if they ever choose to do so. But that's on them. They can do, or be whatever they want to in their country.
My issues are when they come to the US and they bring their thinking with them without any regards to the history and struggles of their new country. I cringe when they say..."I'm not Black, I'm Dominican" When what they should be saying is ..."I'm not American, I'm Dominican" They act as just because they speak spanish that gives them a pass out of the black DNA pool.
When in Rome do as Romans do is what I believe. Okay fine, If I come to the DR and you want to call me a morena.. whatever. But when you come to the US and decide you want to be a part of our American Society, know you'll be a black person. I realize this is a huge shift in thinking but the insistance on not being something you are in my country is counterproductive.
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