Recycling business viable?

beano

New member
Oct 29, 2003
63
0
0
After just returning from our quick trip to the DR, I am just wondering how many recycling businesses have tried and failed. Walking the Malecon and looking at the trash/plastic floating on the surf, it looks like people would take the initiative to make some money. Folks here pick up cans and turn them in for maybe 35 cents a pound. With locals starving, wouldn't this be a way to make a little money? just wondering.
 

Tony C

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
2,262
2
0
www.sfmreport.com
First...Nobody is starving in the DR.

2nd....Every trash can in the DR is rifled through by people looking for Bottles, Cans ect. The DR recycles like you cannot believe.

3rd....Recycling has been a major waste of taxpayers money in the US. What makes you think it would work better in the DR?
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
3,668
20
38
www.dominicancooking.com
I will move this thread to the newly minted Enviroment forum.

I saw a great program on the BBC (I think) about Braziliam women from favelas creating their own recycling center and doing it successfully. Maybe there is a chance it could be done here.
 
Tony C said:
First...Nobody is starving in the DR.

2nd....Every trash can in the DR is rifled through by people looking for Bottles, Cans ect. The DR recycles like you cannot believe.

3rd....Recycling has been a major waste of taxpayers money in the US. What makes you think it would work better in the DR?

Sounds like a wasteful conservative approach to not want to recycle. Some things are worth being paid for by taxpayers.
 

beano

New member
Oct 29, 2003
63
0
0
Well, thank you Tony for your well thought out response. I was simply curious about any programs that might be available. I saw so much plastic floating in between the rock jetties along the Malecon, that I was surprised people had not tried to capitalized on possible easy money. For such a "cosmopolitan city", as many people have referred, I would think that such an attraction as the Malecon would be a bit more pleasing to the eyes.
As far as people starving, maybe not to the point of death, but when a lot of kids come up to me asking me for food, it makes me wonder. I didn't give them pesos, I bought them food, and they seemed grateful. I'm simply wondering...
 

laphantnva612

New member
Dec 12, 2003
1
0
0
Oh poor, poor misinformed Tony C.

I think it's very sad that you are blind to the fact that there ARE people starving in the DR. Maybe not where you look or maybe you choose to look away when it happens like so many people do around the world (but you obviously watch with intent as people in the DR rifle through every trash can looking for items as I didn't see one person doing that when I was there). You probably throw away food on a daily basis and justify it by saying that no one is starving.

Quite possibly recycling programs WOULD work in the US if people like you would actually get off their lazy cans and carry their stuff to the curb. But then again, you probably look away when you see the recycling truck coming as well.
 

lhtown

Member
Jan 8, 2002
377
0
16
Sorry, but I would have to agree with Tony C here in saying that people are not starving in the Dominican Republic. I am not saying that people are not suffering or are not hungry. I am not saying that we should not have compassion on the poor. I am certainly not saying that the poor don't exist.

To be clear, by my definition, "starvation" does not mean missing a meal or going to bed hungry even on a regular basis. It does means dying from lack of means to obtain food or at the very least going without food for extended periods of time. Sorry, but I have yet to see even one Dominican or even one picture of a Dominican that fit that definition. If you say that you have seen starvation here, I think it is safe to assume that you define it very differently.
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
Guys, if you want to have a debate on starvation or the lack thereof in the DR, please start a new thread -- probably in the Debate or General Stuff forum. Let's stick to recycling in this thread.
Thanks,
The Environment Forum Moderator :glasses:
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
beano said:
After just returning from our quick trip to the DR, I am just wondering how many recycling businesses have tried and failed. Walking the Malecon and looking at the trash/plastic floating on the surf, it looks like people would take the initiative to make some money. Folks here pick up cans and turn them in for maybe 35 cents a pound. With locals starving, wouldn't this be a way to make a little money? just wondering.
Not sure how much money they could actually make that way. Much of the trash you see on the beach & in the surf is either paper, or PET bottles, or HDPE bags or polystyrene cups & plates. All are recyclable, but only waste paper & HDPE tend to be recycled widely, & you need a market for the collected materials.

I've often wondered how well an idea being widely experimented with in Brazil these days might work in the DR. Many Brazilian municipalities now offer bags or food or mass transit tokens or fare cards in return for a bag of collected recyclables. Supposedly it has done wonders for cleaning up beaches, streets. Get the poor involved in cleaning things up, while trading them something quite useful to them for the collected recyclables.

While this may help solve the litter problem, it does not necessarily do much regarding waste if the collected material simply goes into overflowing trash bins or to the town dump. Hence the need to develop markets for the recyclables.

Regards,
Keith
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
Tony C said:
2nd....Every trash can in the DR is rifled through by people looking for Bottles, Cans ect.

Well, trash cans -- actually, usually trash bags placed on the curb or in those raised metal containers some neighborhoods have -- are often rifled in SD, that's true. Primarily for glass bottles, especially intact Presidente bottles, rum bottles (various brands), and soda bottles. Steel/tinplate cans are also collected, cardboard occassionally too (although I'm told more cardboard is picked out at the dump than from individual trash cans/bins/bags). The soda bottles can be turned in at most colmados for a couple of pesos. Rum bottles tend to be used to store things (ever been sold kerosene in an old rum bottle?), or in some cases, for other products sold by artesanal producers (such as honey you can get in old Brugal bottles). The Presidente bottles, if intact and clean, can be redeemed at the Presidente plant (unless things have changed since 1999). Cardboard can be sold to various producers of paper/board products, or can be used in work (how many of us have had guys "protect our cars from the sun" with used cardboard?) or in houses. Many of those cans are re-used in households to boil eggs, prepare water for coffee, etc.

Three things not picked out so much by scavengers in the DR and recycled are (a) newsprint; (b) plastics; and (c) aluminum cans. Why (a) & (c) are not done much in the DR is a mystery to me. In the case of newsprint, it is recycled the world over, and as I understand it, a large portion of the cost of newspapers in the DR is from imported newsprint. Why not recycled newsprint recycled locally? As I understand it, costs of recycling newsprint have fallen dramatically in recent years while quality of the recycled fiber has gone up alot.

On aluminum, in most of Latin America and the Caribbean, aluminum cans are the "gold" in recycling -- they bring a high value, so it's the part that is fought over among scavengers & recycling businesses. It is usually even profitable to collect even if the amount collected is not large and it must be recycled in order to be recovered. So one would think that would be true in the DR too....

It's plastics that worry me in the DR. They are rapidly gaining market share in packaging food and beverages, yet there is little plastic recovery or recycling in the DR, although I suspect there could be, especially since so much of the plastic and plastic packaging the DR utilizes is imported. They are contributing mightily to litter and to dump/fill accumulation. They are fast replacing the returnable/refillable glass botttles in the beverage market. I suspect the DR could have profitable high- & low-density polyethylene (HDPE & LDPE) & PET recycling operations if carefully designed & implemented. Polystyrene (PS, known to many by the brandname "styrofoam") is more problematic, as is polyvinyl chloride (PVC).

The DR recycles like you cannot believe.


More than some would believe, but perhaps less than you believe, Tony. There is much informal recycling in the materials I mentioned above, but huge portions not touched by recycling efforts. One large portion in the Dominican waste stream that is not really recycled to a significant degree, yet could be and could be done profitably, are construction & demolition ("C&D") wastes.

3rd....Recycling has been a major waste of taxpayers money in the US. What makes you think it would work better in the DR?

Common myth which has been promoted by those with a political bent or an interest in keeping wasting alive. Many U.S. waste experts I know can point to successful municipal programs that cost taxpayers on a net basis little to nothing, and in some cases, make money for the city and/or its contractor. Mayor Bloomberg argued he was saving NYC money when he cut back his City's recycling program over a year ago. But he is now re-establishing portions cut before. Why? Because the City Comptroller's audit showed that the cut-back was costing the City money rather than saving it.

Now, by no means am I implying that the good results can be duplicated in the DR, especially with the mess of a SD's trash collection system Balaguer made with his ironclad sweetheart contract. There are many obstacles, including corruption, mismanagement, need to educate and change civic habits. Would take alot of work.

Regards,
Keith
 
Last edited:

jsizemore

Bronze
Aug 6, 2003
691
0
0
57
Plastic Lumber

I jst sent an email to a Company in Canada that sells plastic recycling system for making plastic lumber on sight. So I will pass on the price and info when I get it.
Four days off and broke damn I am bored.
John
 

Festero

New member
Dec 15, 2002
115
5
0
Re: Plastic Lumber

jsizemore said:
I jst sent an email to a Company in Canada that sells plastic recycling system for making plastic lumber on sight. So I will pass on the price and info when I get it.
John

Plastic and composite (paper/plastic mix) lumber could be great product for the DR. A great idea, but a tough practical proposition. It has great potential though if for nothing more than a way to increase incentives for plastic recycling - IF cost effective.

It's pretty expensive to make, and has very little load bearing strength.

I could see it used for decorative handrails and such ... but not for decking as it is used in North America. Cement and tile patio/porch are far cheaper.

It looks like a lot of lumber in the DR is used in cement forming purposes, but I don't think the Trex-like products (one brand of many composite materials available in the US) has the strength or cost benefits for that. It sags a lot over time.

Though maybe my imagination is limited? Do other folks see good applications for it?
 

jsizemore

Bronze
Aug 6, 2003
691
0
0
57
retaining walls

hey retaining walls work and other things. I think the thing is it woudl be hard to sell. But in my half joke beofre about tree hugger rich kids paying to adopt a beach might work that way.
John
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
Actually the Trex-like products supposedly do well for things like picnic tables, park benches, railings, etc. They weather better than regular wood and are easily paintable, varnishable.

The products can have the strength and maybe the quality, but the price I think would put it out of the DR domestic market, which I agree is probably rather limited.

But what about an export market?....
 

jsizemore

Bronze
Aug 6, 2003
691
0
0
57
who Knows

Takes more capitol than I can come up with.
Maybe some closet rich guy is watching the boards or maybe Joe is lurking to get endentured servents out of the rich yankees to make it work.
John
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
Pib said:
I will move this thread to the newly minted Enviroment forum.

I saw a great program on the BBC (I think) about Braziliam women from favelas creating their own recycling center and doing it successfully. Maybe there is a chance it could be done here.
Yeah, Clara, there are several successful recycling programs that have been started in favelas [for those of you not familiar with the term, its the Brazilian version of a shantytown]. Some have been associated with organizing waste pickers & botelleros into cooperatives, since many of these come from the favelas. Some of these cooperatives, with some guidance from UNICEF and interested NGOs, have even been able to organize health clinics & plans, schools & recreation centers (basketball courts, etc) from the money they earned from better organizing their recycling. Other organized efforts have simply sought to start a local recycling center in favelas, which are usually not covered by selective collection (curbside recyclables pick-up) and are located far from the municipality's voluntary drop-off centers (PEVs) for recyclables. There's a good group in Rio named "Viva Favela" [www.vivafavela.com.br] that covers this (under "EcoPop" www.ecopop.com.br) and other community development issues in Brazil's favelas.

Colombia also has some great examples of recycling cooperatives organized among the urban poor.

I personally think it is do-able in the DR if the right people devote the time & energy, a bit of seed money from donors, & the government is either supportive or stays out of the way. And there certainly are many very good models in Latin America to learn from.
Regards,
Keith

http://www.ecopop.com.br/publique/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?sid=2&infoid=68
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
I split out the oil recycling into a separate thread

Since it became quite long & involved, I thought the used oil discussion deserved to stand on its own.

I likewise would prefer that people wanting to discuss only plastics recycling do so in the context of the separate thread John started about plastics.

We can continue talking about recycling in general & about other specific materials (paper, wood, glass, tires, etc.). If any one of them gets big or involved enough to warrant their own spotlight, I'll break them out too.
 

jsizemore

Bronze
Aug 6, 2003
691
0
0
57
this discusion is growing I see

Does the DR have a paper pulping industry? If not then how can they recycle paper effectively. And if they do are there crops that could be grown to be used as a paper pulp. (I know Hemp is out)?
JOHN
 

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
2,984
36
48
www.temasactuales.com
To Give You a Better Grasp of Existing & Potential Markets

I went digging back through my files, and found some figures from PAHO's preliminary diagnostic of the DR's waste sector, data from 2001. They cite an estimate by a private consultant, Abt Associates, that Santo Domingo's household waste stream consists of:

Food waste 57.3%
Yard waste 15.2%
Paper 7.4%
Metal 2.2%
Plastics 8.6%
Glass 2.4%
cardboard 3.4%
textiles 2.4%
wood 0.4%

Abt Associates also is cited as estimating that some 25% of the household waste stream in DR is recyclable, but only 1-2% is collected & sold for recycling on a commercial basis. [Not clear to me if these percentages are by weight or volume.]

Known commercial recycling currently underway include:

* Glass - Cerveceria Nacional (Presidente bottlers) & Embotellera Nacional together recover an estimate 90-95% of all glass bottles

* Plastic - Keng Sun Industrial recycled an estimated 464 tons of plastic bags per year

* Paper/Board - Desperdeco, Induspapel, K y Q, and Industrias Nigua recycle about 5 tons paper & 8 tons board (doesn't say if this is annually -- if so, these figures are amazingly low for a developing country)

* Metal - Metaldom, Pepin Acero, Astilleros Naval, Central Romana recycle 12,000 ton/mo. (this sounds mostly like iron/steel & tinplate, but have to check on that)

Regards,
Keith