2 examples

Tordok

Bronze
Oct 6, 2003
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The DR1 boards are inundated with threads that question the Dominican work ethic, inability to delay gratification, etc...there was a recent one that insisted on labeling Dominicans as intellectualy substandard by means of the shoddy science of I.Q. testing. I will not enter such debates as they are by default the realm of extreme subjective speculation, and reaching consensus is highly improbable. I bring you 2 examples of folks that challenge the mere possibility that Dominicans participate on the global stage, and not only in sports and music.

the kind of examples that we don?t hear much about around these boards: cutting-edge minds that were born and raised in the DR. I know both of these gentlemen, and they are fine human beings plus accomplished men of science. The always declare their Dominican roots and I feel proud of them.

Enough bachata, rum and baseball; our kids need to know that education can produce knowledge and opportunities. We should admire that there are Dominicans that, without singing or hitting for the fences produce value to our global society and deserve emulation among our youth. There are many more. These are 2 examples.

-Tordok


Dr. Erich Kunhardt, despite his Germanic name, is very much a Dominican, born in Monte Cristi; son of Dr. Juan Enrique Kunhardt and do?a Irma Grull?n de Kunhardt.

TECHNICAL TEAM

Principal Scientist: Dr. Erich Kunhardt

Dr. Kunhardt, a co-founder of PlasmaSol, is George Meade Bond Professor of Physics & Engineering Physics in the Department of Physics and Engineering Physics at Stevens. He joined the faculty of Texas Tech University, Lubbock, TX, in the fall of 1976 after graduation from Polytechnic University. He worked @ TTU on topics involving non-linear wave propagation in plasmas, breakdown phenomena in gases and streamer dynamics. In 1984 Erich joined the faculty of Polytechnic University as Director of the Weber Research Institute. While at Polytechnic, he worked on ECRH discharges, breakdown phenomena in liquids, and the interaction of ionospheric plasmas with charged spacecraft. He joined Stevens in 1992 and developed the Plasma Physics Laboratory. Dr. Kunhardt has been working on problems related to non-linear wave phenomena in two-dimensional semiconductor plasmas and the generation of large volume plasmas at atmospheric pressures, and more recently on electric field enhanced combustion. His research (related to the proposed work) entitled "Generation of Large Volume Plasmas at Atmospheric Pressures", is being funded by AFOSR (March 15, 1996 - March 15, 1999). He has authored over 70 papers in refereed journals and conference proceedings. Dr. Kunhardt is a member of the team of inventors of the core non-thermal plasma technology. He holds a Ph.D. in Electrophysics (Applied Physics) from Polytechnic Institute of New York; a Masters of Science from New York University; and a Bachelor of Science from New York University.

Business page Dr. Kunhardt:
source- http://www.plasmasol.com/team.html

Academic Page Dr. Kunhardt:
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/physics/People/Faculty/Erich_Kunhardt.htm

Dr. Feniosky Pe?a-Mora, also Dominican, is at MIT. Became an ingeneer at UNPHU. Please explore his page at the link below.

Academic Page Dr. Pe?a-Mora:

http://www.mit.edu/~feniosky/
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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Every country on this planet produces people of outstanding ability, whether they are academic, entertainment or sport related etc.
Just as every country on this planet produces, idiots, bigots, racists etc.

Why I don't necessary agree with some of the stuff that has been said or written, the fact remains that mean education levels vary throughout the planet. Example: The Dominican Republic has a lower standard of education than Australia, that's fact.

Common sense, IQ, intelligence levels are a different story in my opinion.
These are more specific to the country and cannot be judged against figures from other countries.

Bottom line...

Stop trying to defend your country and people, you don't need to.
Dominicans have "subtly" demonstrated their abilities and have been making their mark globally for a long time.
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
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I disagree with the premise that a few shining examples represent proof that we are not of sub-standard intelligence. The mere fact that we are humans prove that we can't be inherently different from other humans. The color of the skin and the language may vary, but we are all the same (for better or for worse).

BTW, Dr. Kundhardt may not represent the average Dominican, his whole family is involved in academic life (mom is an UNPHU professor, one sister is head of Student Services at INTEC). His dad, a MD is a very nice cranky old man and very much liked and respected in MC, despite his involvement in politics (he was governor during Balaguer's presidency). Erich had a head-start. Nothing to brag about.
 

Tordok

Bronze
Oct 6, 2003
530
2
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abou the 2 examples

Robert and Pib are both correct in their statements. I still believe that highlighting the accomplisments of fellow Dominicans, regardless of background and/or field of distinction, can only be viewed as positive. Not all messages on DR1 are negative; in fact I frequently find great diversity of opinions and valuable information. The examples I used are just that, examples. They happen to contrast with the equally real examples of beggars and scoundrels that we find on the boards. I did not mean to sound defensive and much less bragging about the DR. The use of these examples helps the casual browser understand the complexity of Dominican society beyond some blanket statements repeated everywhere. It also helps younger Dominicans see that success is also available in scholarship and hard work, not just loud music and playing ball. (...nothing wrong with music or baseball per se, but you do see my point..)
cheers!
-Tordok
:cool:
 

lhtown

Member
Jan 8, 2002
377
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Thanks for making your point clearer. I understand what you are getting at much better now. I agree that it is important for a society to have good role models. As such, it is good for a society to honor people who have made achievement in their fields or who manifest desirable character qualities.

I started a post on "Real Dominican Heroes" a few weeks or so ago. Why don't you list some of your personal heroes under that thread?
 

carl ericson70

New member
Nov 15, 2003
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Tordok

Tordok,
You should know that I didn't start that that topic on the average IQ scores of people in the dominican republic,to poke fun at them.Nor was it any soft of stab at dominican dignity etc..

For the record amigo,my girlfriend is dominican and some day........dominican blood will be in my family tree,so.....

Anyways,If you re-read the posts in the AVERAGE IQ OF DOMINICANS thread,you'll see that about 100% of the respondants(myself included)mentioned that although"measurable differences"in IQ exists among the nationalities & races of mankind,the heaping majority of these differences can be traced back to education,nutrition,class,environment,culture etc..,but not specificly to race or ethnicity.Others mentioned cultural bias also.

I do happen to believe however,that dominicans(generally)are frivilous spenders,who live for today and prefer to let dios take care of tommorow.Much of this,I think,is rooted in dominican culture.

You know,my girlfriend reads the forums here from time-to-time and also gets pretty pissed by what's said about dominicans here:Sankies,work ethic,spending habits,dominican speech, lack of punctuality,you name it.........Alhough she agrees with some of it,she's explained to me that never-the-less(as a dominican)it puts one in a weird position of being a lab-specimen under a microscope and having your every flaw pointed out.

Ok...what I've told my GF to keep in mind,is that(outside of the sex tourists)most of us here really do like dominicans and their country & culture.It's just that because many of us are from different cultures,there's certain aspects of"dominicaness"that we can't stomach.

Just wanted to clear that up.

Take care!
Carl
 

Tordok

Bronze
Oct 6, 2003
530
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Carl & others

Thank you for your thoughtful posts on this thread. There is a common Dominican adage: "no se puede tapar el sol con un dedo", in other words the true shines through whether we like it or not, or even in the presence of examples that counter the norm. There were, of course, some well thought out comments on that I.Q. thread but a lot of pseudoscience and subtle racist rethoric found its way in there as well. Likewise, my examples of a couple of Dominican scientific scholars cannot mitigate the fact that the majority of people in the DR are indeed uneducated and often lack the values that more accomplished societies take as the norm. I insist however that there are enough positive cases that defy the more frequently encountered notions of the "typical" Dominican mindset and it ought to be ok to show these. The fact that they may not be "typical" doesn't make them any less a product of Dominican society.

All I try to do in my DR Board comments is to help expand the variety of views in some discussions, and sometimes I respectfully play Devil's advocate to help add some balance.
We all make the common mistake of jumping into conclusions, myself included. I am not opposed to anyone being critical of what they view as wrong attitudes or customs in the Dominican population. I in fact welcome these, as long as they are based on fact, even if anecdotal, and that they mean to help the rest of us understand something. It is just that in recent weeks I felt that many threads became too negative or ignorant. Many folks were inappropriately mixing sociology with anthropology, and facts with opinions, on very sensitive subject matters. There were a bit too many posts that brought generalizing perspectives with suggestions of some kind of inborn intellectual deficit affecting ALL Dominicans; and this punched my defense buttons.

I also admit that I became too concrete with this by starting a new thread in a sort of "to-set-some-people-straight" kind of way. Your comments on this thread have helped me realize that it may very well have been that I was more sensitive to the less than stellar opinions that were posted on other threads and that I failed to consider the more sensible views that were also there.

"hablando se entiende la gente"

-Tordok

:cool:
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Well, if it makes anyone feel better out there, I know a friend that went to Columbia University. In a very unrealistic but possible instance that you don't know what this university is, it's one of the most respected, oldest, and valued university in the entire United States. Anyways, this guy (who I consider to be a genius - super smart person) he had to cut a limb from a tree in his backyard. So he did, he cut the limb while he was sitting on it. He fell down along with the limb and almost died with some serious injuries. My point here is this, high I.Q. or not, we are all humans. And as such, a poor uneducated person may sometimes or in general have more commonsense than a person with speciallized knowledge. Besides, how can you blame the Dominican people for mostly not being fully educated (in specialized knowledge). There is a severe public education crisis in the country, especially in the countryside, thanks to the super corrupt "democratic" governments that have taken power ever since the U.S. got rid of Dictator Trujillo. So, politics plays into all of this, there is nothing about once race that would hinders once ability to succeed in school, life, or whatever.
 
Oct 13, 2003
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While I have refrained thus far

I could not any longer contain myself...

My two cents..

The use of positive stereotyping as used by Tordok has two effects:

1) The effect on Domenican people. They serve as an example to Domenicans that business and academic achievements are within their reach if they strive hard enough. This could increase the possibility that Domenican people follow them. This in itself is a good thing.

2) The effect on non-Domenican people. Given the fact that a lot of the posts on this forum are about important parts of the Domenican society, namely tourism, prostitution and corruption, it is easy to forget that this discussion does not represent the entire Domenican society. As such, the two examples provide a valuable illustration to us, lest we forget that our picture of the DR is colored by our own observations and the information on this board.

While I recognise that none of the examples given on this board portray the entire Domenican society, nevertheless, I would like to thank Tordok and invite everybody to come up with more information that would balance our view of Domenican society!



MD
 

Larry

Gold
Mar 22, 2002
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Quote:
I do happen to believe however,that dominicans(generally)are frivilous spenders,who live for today and prefer to let dios take care of tommorow.Much of this,I think,is rooted in dominican culture.---Carl erickson70


Why do we (not just you Carl) feel the need to keep complaining about this? I dont see how it really affects any of us who choose to handle our finances any differently nor do I think it has anything to do with intellect. When we begin talking about Intelligence Quotient and race, we make the mistake of listing all of the things that we feel are wrong with Dominican culture as a way of explaining what we feel are examples of proof of a lower IQ as a whole. Again, I am not talking about Carl so much but am taking this in general from the old thread that this spawned out of. Spending freely is the result of a custom passed on from generation to generation and a result of lack of education. It is also a result of seeing your national currency decrease in value by the day. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Larry
 
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Chris_NJ

Bronze
Dec 17, 2003
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The rule or the exception?

I have noticed the 2 repeated themes shown on this site when describing Dominicans - one being negative (the work ethic, money issues, etc) and the other positive (friendly, sincere, etc.). Before I read this debate I would often struggle with which is the rule and which is the exception when looking at Dominican culture.

But it became crystal clear when I looked at my "sample size" - an extended group of Dominican friends here in NY (friends of friends, etc).

This is a group of more than 20 Dominicans who are in their mid 20's and for the most part came to the US at a very early age or were American born into working class families. I never gave it much thought, but everyone is college educated and now working in professional positions. All have exceedingly friendly families who would give you the shirts off their backs.

My conclusion is that given the opportunity of an education this group is the "rule" when looking at Domincans rather than the "exception."